Sierra Pedal Steel Guitars...........................

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 16 Aug 2007 11:44 am

I realize that Buddy Emmons did a VHS video promo about Sierra Guitars......and also, that at various, times, other big names used the instrument for 'short durations'. Some of the advertising is the best I've ever seen, when it comes to steel guitars.

Sierra's have been around for a long time. They're an extremely polished looking instrument......lot's of attractive appointments; great color section, even BLACK and/or WHITE! They seem to be well constructed too.

I fail to see as many proportionately, as other guitars; OLD Emmons and Sho-Buds.....and the many new names that are appearing all the time. Even Wheeler & Miller get more discussion time.

In YOUR OPINION, WHY is Sierra NOT AS POPULAR among the nation's players as are the other pedal steels, both newer and older? Is there a specific factor that makes them LESS of a KEEPER than other makes? Is it because they are manufactured in the Pacific Northwest?

How many Forumites here, have worked for Sierra Guitar Company?

james king · Post by **james king** » 16 Aug 2007 12:26 pm

Hi Ray, I've own an Emmons, an MSA Classic and two Sierras. They are all great guitars but my favorite is the Sierra keyless I purchased new in 1997. I will definely keep this guitar from now on. I am not easily influenced by my heros when it comes to guitars because they do change brands often. However, I can help but smile when I see Joe Wright burn up his Sierra although I know he could do it with any brand.
James King

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 16 Aug 2007 1:13 pm

Hi Ray, Buddy played Sierra guitars for awhile, as well as a few other pros. I'd heard that Buddy had George L wind quite a few different PU's to try to attain a certain sound. I don't know if he found the sound he was searching for. Perhaps not, since he now plays a different brand of steel guitar. In the 70s and 80s it seems like MSA & Sierra were doing quite well building quality instruments.

Roy McKinney · Post by **Roy McKinney** » 16 Aug 2007 1:21 pm

I owned Sierra Serial Number 15 for a lot of years. I have owned 4 other Siera's, I traded a Artist off and got a D10 Keyless, and traded that off to get a Sierra UNI. Traded a Sho-Bud for a Sierra D10. Guess I will stay with the UNI and the last D10 I traded for. Great PSG's

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 16 Aug 2007 1:39 pm

Ray,
great question. IMHO it is because the Sierra doesn't conform to the age old view, "If it's not a wood body or it doesn't follow the Bigsby model it doesn't stack up."

I have often heard it would make a great showing at a Tool & Die convention but not at a steel guitar show.

I own 2 Sierras, and they are excellent pedal steel guitars. If I didn't play BMI I'd be pushing Sierra.

Facts are Chuck Wright and Gene Fields did more for setting building standards for Pedal Steel Guitar probably than any other builder.

I Believe, Chuck was one of the first to introduce CNC milled guitars and parts for pedal steel guitar. NO POT medal like Sho~Bud used or cast end plates with pits.

Now everybody CNC mills the end plates, necks, and changer parts.

David Wright could give us more insight regarding all the folks that worked for his Dad.

Buddy for about a year, used one of my Sierras, "The Blue Dumplin" setup as a 12 string C6.

Dan

Tom Campbell · Post by **Tom Campbell** » 16 Aug 2007 5:50 pm

Hello Ray

I have three Sierra U12's. A Crown Series, an '84 Session transition model and a late model Session. I love the tone created by the aluminum bodies and maple necks...great combination. Sierra carried this construction concept into their lap steels...an aluminum plate sandwiched between two pieces of maple or cherry.
I haven't noticed Sierra advertising since their reorganization...big mistake...you have to advertise if a company is to be succesfull. Talked to Tom Baker today and he will be in St.Louis for the SHOW...first time in three years.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 16 Aug 2007 6:32 pm

Well you asked.

Probably mainly because the old owner Don C was known for not taking many if any suggestions from players, form the top down to those that worked there, several of which I've known over the years. Not that that's a bad thing, as I don't like constructive criticism myself.

Not that being a player is a prerequisite for building them. Mr Bigsby was reportedly not a player.

IMHO they were in the first part of their aluminumness hard to keep in tune, and the first 12-14 stringers were unwieldy and hard to keep in tune. That was my experience in the ones I tried. I never cared for the sterile tone from the isolated pickups.

Danny Shields always preferred his D11 MSA.

Tom Baker,IMHO, has always been the top of the company, and if any things would have made the original company better, or maybe made the brand more acceptable, it would have been turning over design, and production to him.

It's hard to know just why, but it's not over yet. Tom Baker is still young, and there are several turns in store for the music industry.

The original Wright Steels that I have seen, posted pictures of and played were much like the Bigsbys of olde, and a whole different animal.

Interesting to see some of the responses.

HFLE

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 17 Aug 2007 4:20 am

I had a Crown Universal 12 for a short time, very heavy for a 12 string, probably weighed as much as the other brands D-10's. It was a keyless and I always had a battle getting that 3rd string on tight enough so that you could tune it up to the G# note, I was kind of disappointed in that guitar since I had heard so much about them over the years, I know the newer models became lighter in weight, which was good, so its hard to judge them all by just this one 12 string model. It sounded ok to me, but nothing special there either.

Ernie Pollock

David Wright · Post by **David Wright** » 17 Aug 2007 5:18 am

This subject is near and dear to my heart...
My Dad put a lot of hard work in building the Sierra Guitar, His idea of the one piece body, inter changeable pick`ups... the folding legs... and the changer head that is pretty much un changed there using today..

Trying to build a steel that makes every player happy in impossible Builders try to hit the middle of the road .. they can pretty much get the pedal action were looking for,, and Tone... well there you go, it's a wide open world when it comes to Ideas on tone...and thats just like ass'es we have one!!!! I think Don did a great job with Sierra, he was all Business, and ran a tight ship.. he interduced the arits line, lap steels.. first to sell in a major mail order, I always found a Sierra needed to be broke in, once I played it a month or less, no more tunning, it seemed it needed to settle in ... after that.. it was great...Sierra isn't for all players, nor is Zumm, MSA, ect... and having a Big Name player playing "your" guitar never did hurt sales!!!

Tom Baker,
I fell he is the back bone of Sierra for a long time!!!. and am glade he is still building Sierras..In closing, Sierra isn't the guitar for everyone... but which one is!!!
I'm very proud of what my Dad has contributed to the Steel Guitar world... just hope to see hime inducted while he's still with us...he's 81 now and does pretty good...
Thank's for this thread Ray....

Robert Leaman · Post by **Robert Leaman** » 17 Aug 2007 11:01 am

Here's my Session 2000, 8+7 25" Gearless. When the picture was taken, there was no name but that has since been replaced courtesy of Tom Baker. Top is white birdseye. The apron and pedal bar are walnut. I've owned a great many steel guitars. My first was a small metal Rickenbacker that sounded good and played like a dream. That was back in the late 1940's and I always looked for something that had the same touch and sound. My Sierra comes as close as any that I owned. The guitar stays in tune, doesn't break strings, and the action is easy.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 17 Aug 2007 12:14 pm

So happy to hear the views from so many of you.

When it comes to Sierra, I think of TOM BAKER. A fine gentleman.

When it comes to the guitar, not being a world class player like many of you.....I experienced difficulties in my visual assessment of the fret board from the area of 12th fret on up to the actual picking area.

Perhaps it was my physical height, too low of a pack seat or chair, or whatever, but this one point gave me problems. It adversely affected my hitting the correct strings with my picking hand. Oh well.....

I think they make some of the nicest LOOKING guitars I've ever seen. Their finish is superb.

But if you have a great guitar, what is the point of ripping out the pickups, and installing two or three different brand pickups in their place? Also, I've always noticed a kind of sterile sound, NOT MEATY like with the Bigsby or preWar Ricks, nor did it have that distictive tone I always heard with the early Sho-Buds.

TELL ME MORE about this great guitar! Some of you really love them.

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 17 Aug 2007 12:25 pm

I have just bought a sierra session 12 uni keyless,
looking forward to picking it up next tuesday.
will report what i think of the guitar in the next few weeks

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 17 Aug 2007 2:38 pm

My Sierra Crown U12 is a very nice guitar. It's about 20 years old, but it's in excellent condition and stays in tune very well. The pedals and knee levers are very responsive and have a modern feel technologically. If I have one complaint it would be the tone. Like others who have commented, it is not anything like the classic tone of an old Bud, or my old Fender 2000 for that matter. But it is easier to maintain than what I had been previously playing. Someday I'll get a different guitar, unless I can solve the tone issue.

Tom Campbell · Post by **Tom Campbell** » 17 Aug 2007 3:53 pm

Tone problem?????

The default pickup in the Sierra is the George L. Sierra uses two versions, Phase I and the Phase II. I think these versions relate to the E66 and the L-10. A noticable difference can be heard by using the Shields pickup, the Tonealinger, Truetone, Lawerance, Williams, and/or what others you can find. Your amplifier and amp settings are also an issue. Oh yea, and the strings (gauge, wound vs. plain) etc.
The Sierra presentation is clean and uncluttered and you have to be comfortable with that style of design. It is not loaded down with gaudy inlay, piles of chrome...its not your fathers '56 Buick!!

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 17 Aug 2007 8:19 pm

I think the electric guitar analogy is the Travis Bean guitar - the guts are crafted out of solid aircraft aluminum. They're extremely well thought of by many players, but most guitar players seem to want a Fender or Gibson. In spite of their public image as rock and roll revolutionaries, I think most guitar players are pretty conservative about instruments, and want things the way they have been done. Witness the intense vintage guitar craze for the last 20 years. I think PSG players are more open, but still, I think standard construction methods and materials continue to rule the roost. It is hard to be a maverick, and I don't mean a Sho Bud.

The Sierra E9 S-10 in my avatar has been replaced by a Sierra E9/B6 universal S-14, both made roughly 20 years ago. I don't think I would have ever learned to play this thing if I hadn't wound up with that S-10 - ergonomically it just fit me when nothing else I tried did, the action and tone were great, and a friend now has it to learn on. The S-14 plays pretty much exactly the same - all the Sierras I've tried were consistent. I just can't think of anything negative to say about these guitars. Yeah, they are a bit heavy, but no more so than some other guitars I've played or owned. At some point, I'd like a Session S-12 keyless universal - I expect that would satisfy my need for a bit lighter Sierra.

As far as tone, I like the sound with the Danny Shields 3-way pickups both of mine have had. Very versatile and good-sounding, to my tastes - never would I have mistaken this for anything but a "pedal steel guitar". I also agree with Tom Campbell about amp and settings making a big difference, not to mention the hands. I never felt limited tonally with either of these guitars.

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 17 Aug 2007 8:19 pm

In 1975 the modern Sierra PSGs appeared at the "National Steel Guitar Convention" in St. Louis. Ben Harlow was the owner of the company at this time. The new design was quite attractive, with folding legs outboard of the cabinet. This was the first time modular changeable pickups were seen on a PSG. Scotty took delivery of two D-10 guitars that Sierra had displayed at the convention. One was White mica with plain anodized metal parts and the other was Black mica with Gold anodized metal parts. These two D-10, 8 X 4 guitars retailed for $1,495.00 each.

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 17 Aug 2007 8:52 pm

The main complaint I've heard about a sierra is the weight. I worked on a friends sierra once, and they are very heavy, compaired to other steels.
Mitch

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 17 Aug 2007 9:41 pm

One time back in the early 90s Greg Leisz called me up and wanted me to check out his new Sierra Crown U12. We both agreed that it sounded better than either of us remembered Sierras ever sounding. Greg chaulked it up to the Shields CrapTrap humbucker on there. He was going on the road for a while and he offered to let me take it home and try it for a while. I was coming off 20+ years on a D-10 and had always wanted to try a universal long enough to know if I liked it so I took him up on his offer. Well after 2 weeks of shedding,I took it to my steady gig and loved it as did everyone else who heard it. I tried to buy it off Greg and when he refused,I ordered a Session U-12 from Don but only after going to the St Louis convention that year and trying out every other keyless U-12 available. In the 10 years or so I played that guitar I must have tried every pickup known to man on there and I ended up with 5 or 6 different ones in those little cartridges but mostly used either a Wallace TrueTone or the CrapTrap. I took that guitar on the road all over the States and Europe and it stayed in tune,sounded good and never let me down.I played that guitar till 2003 when I got an Excel which is a lot like it but a little smaller and much lighter - no small consideration once you reach a certain age...But I must say that the Sierra is a great guitar in every respect.It's a little quirky - kind of like the Volvo of pedal steels but a fine ax for pro and the working man alike and it's got a lot of great features.Any player would be a fool not to consider it.

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 18 Aug 2007 12:32 am

Off topic, can someone tell me the overall length of a Session 12 uni post 2000 model and the length in the case ... thanks

Colm Chomicky · Post by **Colm Chomicky** » 18 Aug 2007 11:07 am

I believe Tom will have a booth at St. Louis this year. Can't think of a better opportunity to check one out. If you have any questions call Tom at Sierra 503.759.3155. He is always very helpful and understands customer service. I bought Roy McKinney's Sierra Artist, and whenever I have called Tom for help, he treats me like I am his best customer in the world.

Gordon Sharp · Post by **Gordon Sharp** » 18 Aug 2007 1:31 pm

I have 2 LDGs 1 67 pp emmons 1 BMI and 1 sierra.I think the sierra plays better made better,love the knee levers.The tone is different but after a few songs you start to like it.Great instrument.Gordon Sharp Kingston Tenn.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 18 Aug 2007 2:39 pm

I've owned a few Sierra's over the years. The weight was the main factor with me and I never could get a tone out of one that I really cared for. It's probably one of the best built guitars ever built but I look for lightweight guitars that'll do what I want and that's pretty much the way I go. If I ever get another Sierra, it'll more than likely be a S-12U, loaded.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 19 Aug 2007 11:02 am

Like others have mentioned, I think that that features that keep folks away from buying Sierra's are:

1) The weight

2) The price

3) The different contruction ( It's not all wood )

I also went from the Sierra to the Excel....I don't understand those who complain of the tone of the Sierra ...It's one of the only steels that you can put any pickup you want in, and play to your hearts content ...Perhaps the height of the pickup was not adjusted properly ??....Every steel will sound different through the various amps, and every steel will sound different with the various pickups through the various amps ....Many different combinations will yield different results ... The Sierra also has some of the best engineering on the market ...I love my Excel for the features it has, but I sure do miss being able to change the pickups out .... I would also agree that the CrapTrap is one of the better sounding pickups in the Sierra...I also grew very fond of the Dimarzio pickup ....Then again , a TrueTone sounds pretty darn good too !!...
I STILL keep a Sierra U-12 8+5 uni in case I have any problems with my Excel ... I like my Sierra that much to hang onto it ....Jim

Tom Campbell · Post by **Tom Campbell** » 19 Aug 2007 1:23 pm

Weight???

I don't understand the weight problem everyone seems to be highlighting as a deterent to owning/buying a Sierra. The older Crown series (U12) was no more heavy than other guitars at the time it was produced...and that includes the Sho-Buds, ZBecks, MSA and others. The newer Session series (U12) is in the same weight "ball-park" as any of the brands produced today...doubt me...go weigh them!

Another weight issue...cases. If your hauling your guitar around in a carpet/wood coffin, you have just added 20lbs plus to your load...get a moulded wheeled case and drop 10lbs.

Whip Lashaway · Post by **Whip Lashaway** » 20 Aug 2007 8:52 am

Back in the late 80's I was in the market for a "real" steel. I had been playing my Sho-Bud Pro I with 3 X 4. I attended probably 6 or 7 steel shows that year looking for what I wanted. I loved the looks of the JCH's and the Zum's. I kept seeing these Sierra's for the most part being played by people I didn't know. (No big names) BUT the tone kept blowing me away!!! My dilemma was I thought they were ugly! I will admitt that they were all red and I'm not a big fan of red guitars. After several monthes of hashing it over my wife made it all very clear one day. She said "Are going to play it or sit around and look at it?" I called up Don and he had a Stafford 14 stringer that was a demo in the showroom and gave me a good deal. It was white and I loved the looks of it when it arrived at the house. I now have it and a black 12 string. Both are keyless and 25" scale. The pedal action is second to none I've ever played. They stay in tune. The only time I ever have to adjust the pedal tuning is when I replace the strings. I told Don back then and I'll restate it here, If Don ever builds a car I want one!!! I've been playing Sierra's since 1988.

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