How many pedals and levers do we really use?

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 19 Feb 2007 1:38 pm

I have watched many players, some have 8 pedals and 6 levers and over a 2 hour period most of them seem to use only the A and B pedals and the E raise and E lower levers. Do you think we are putting many pedals and levers on guitars just to impress?

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 19 Feb 2007 1:49 pm

sounds like an E9th player who owns & carries around a D10. Too bad we don't learn the other neck.......Us old guys started with C6th and learned the E9th long afterwards. After Bud Isaacs is maybe what I'm saying.

Stan Paxton · Post by **Stan Paxton** » 19 Feb 2007 1:57 pm

I often wonder the same when I see an instrument with 9x9 or some such, but figure they must know how to use them or why have them. ...I only have 3x5 on SD10; & try to find uses for all of them, altho really have no idea as to the full potential there....

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Feb 2007 2:16 pm

Well, I guess some players need lot of pedals, and some don't. Myself, the vast majority of my playing is done with A,B, & C, and the "E" r/l.

I once had a visiting steeler ask me if I had the full-tone lower on the 6th, and the whole tone raise on the 1st. When I told him I had neither (even though I had 8 total pedals and levers on E9th), he said he wouldn't want to try and sit-in for a few songs.

I know that for me, it was a "numbers game" when I started. A lotta players would look down their noses if you didn't have at least 4 levers, so I added 6 to my original 2, and it looked very "professional". Trouble was, I ran into a couple of guys that could do more with 2 levers than I could with 8. Life is like that, sometimes.

In the end, I learned it ain't what you got, it's how good you are that counts!

Even to this day, it doesn't take much of a player to humble me.

Gary Preston · Post by **Gary Preston** » 19 Feb 2007 2:30 pm

Donnie i think if everyone will ''fess up '' they would say they mostly use the ''e's '' lower and raise for most of their playing . In my opinion the other levers are mostly for those so to speak ''Hot Licks '' ! G.P.

JW Day · Post by **JW Day** » 19 Feb 2007 2:42 pm

I have an 8 & 5 and use all of them.They are to expesive to have if you don't use them. I have found that the 2nd. string double lower is very handy after learning how to use it.

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 19 Feb 2007 2:48 pm

Depends on the song. On the B6 of my U12, I don't use everything, but when I'm in E9, I use Es up/dwn, and D# to D. But I also like to lower my Bs. So, in other words I guess I'm using them all! (with the exception of raising F# to G. I don't use that one much right now.)

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 19 Feb 2007 2:54 pm

I use 10 changes on E9 and use them all, but its 80% ABC pedals and E-Eb, and about 20% for the remaining 6 changes....I would bet thats about the norm for most E9 guys... bob

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Feb 2007 2:54 pm

I have 5+5 and use them all - on both necks!

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 19 Feb 2007 2:58 pm

sounds good to me, b0b!

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 19 Feb 2007 3:14 pm

I have 5 on E9th and wish I had one more. I play mostly top 40 and typically use everything I have sometime during the night.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 19 Feb 2007 3:40 pm

tbhenry wrote:I have watched many players, some have 8 pedals and 6 levers and over a 2 hour period most of them seem to use only the A and B pedals and the E raise and E lower levers.

You must be watching typical country steelers playing standard country E9 steel. That stuff was born and raised on E9 3 and 2, or maybe 4. So naturally, you can play that stuff all night only using 3 and 2 to 4. And many players hardly ever use the C pedal. But if you watch Lloyd Green, you will see that C pedal get used. And if you watch Paul Franklin, you will see him use his Franklin pedal every now and then. So while average players may not use everything they have, top steelers do.

A lot of us average players have the extra stuff so we can try to learn to use it. We might fool around with it at home on special songs and arrangements; but when winging it on minimally rehearsed songs called out on a whim by the vocalist or upon request from the audience, we stick with the few pedals and levers we are really comfortable with. I don't see this as a bad thing. It is good for us to have an instrument we can grow into.

On the other hand, if you see a top pro take off on C6, you will see them use the center lever cluster and all the C6 pedals. The recent YouTube post of Tommy White playing C6 is a case in point. He even took his foot off the volume pedal at times to play pedals with both feet. Maybe the typical country steeler doesn't do much with the 6th neck on their D10 or uni; maybe there is not much call for it in a typical country band these days. Nevertheless, many of us like to have that 6th neck to fool around with at home. And you never know when a Western Swing number might come up on a gig; so it is nice to have it there if you need it, and you want to learn some of it, even if some nights you never touch it.

I'll admit that on country standards, I don't use much but E9 2 and 2. But I also play blues, rock, jazz and classical music on my uni. In all of those, I use 3 and 5 in E9 mode, and wish I had another knee to work more levers. In B6 mode, I don't use all the pedals yet, but I'm slowly learning. I certainly would not want my progress to be limited by not having the full complement of pedals, and someday I want to add a center cluster of levers for B6. However, on a uni, things do double duty, and there are other ways to get some of the stuff the traditional C6 pedals and levers give. So at the moment I am content to learn the basics of the one big tuning, without trying to exactly duplicate the two separate necks of a D10. If I didn't play a uni, I would certainly want a fully loaded D10. You don't have to use all of it all the time. But it is nice to have it all when you want it.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 19 Feb 2007 3:48 pm

I have 8+9 on my U-12,use em all and wish I had 1 or 2 more. I would say on honky tonk gigs,I play mostly E9 style and use 4 pedals and 5 levers a lot and 3 other levers a little. On swing gigs or cowboy gigs like The Riders of the Purple Sage,I play more 6th style and then I would use 4 other pedals and 4 other levers a lot and 2 or 3 pedals and levers a little. Or a third scenario would be no pedals and no levers and just go slant a while - as in my Stringmaster.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 19 Feb 2007 4:26 pm

I find 3+2 on E9 pretty indispensible. The 2/9 lower is my 3rd lever, and I use it quite a bit as well, especially string 9 for descending scales and coming off suspended IV's in the AB position. I would be completely happy with a 4th lever lowering the 6th and raising the 1st. I'll probably be adding it within a month or so.

I've had several guitars with 5 levers for the E9 - two Carters and an MSA. I never ever used the vertical, which was usually lowering the B's. I just couldn't adjust it for proper use with the AB pedals.

3+4 is more than enough for me. If it's good enough for Lloyd........

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 19 Feb 2007 4:41 pm

Quote:

"Do you think we are putting many pedals and levers on guitars just to impress?"

No...

I play a fairly loaded guitar, use everything on it, and would not have it any other way, personally...

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 19 Feb 2007 4:55 pm

A, B , and all 5 knees, really like the E lowers, and G# lowers together.If I played on a more regular basis, probably use more of the floors.

Bill

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 19 Feb 2007 5:08 pm

I've had as many as 8 knee levers, but soon realized that 5 max is all I can handle! Probably don't really need all of them, but like the choices they give me.

Larry

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 19 Feb 2007 5:20 pm

Chris LeDrew wrote:

3+4 is more than enough for me. If it's good enough for Lloyd........

I'm strictly a newer E9th player on an S-10 3 + 4. So I can't offer an intelligent opinion.

But I do remember the outstanding article on Lloyd Green which appeared last year in The Country Music Journal. And I recall that in the early 70's when he took his D-10 Sho-Bud to the "chop shop" to have it converted into the original SD-10 LDG, that he consulted his recording sessions book, and if memory serves, in the previous 600 sessions, he had only used the C6th neck five times.

Depending on what one does musically, mileage is of course likely to vary, but as a newer pedal player, I thought this was a good "law of averages" example to follow to head down that initial path on on the instrument.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 19 Feb 2007 5:25 pm

I've been playing 9 and 9 for about 25 years, and I use them all - obviously some levers get more knee time than others, depending on the application - but there is nothing on my guitar that is there for display purposes only! Come to think of it, I haven't changed my setup much over the years either - it works real good for ME.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 19 Feb 2007 6:36 pm

I play a 3X4 s-10 and I use all the pedals and 3 of the levers constantly. I still havn't found a use for the RKR, but I'm sure I'll need it some day. I do want to add a vertical and a 0 pedal, and then I'll probably be done with modding this guitar.

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 19 Feb 2007 6:53 pm

I have a D-10 but almost never touch the C neck. So those pedals are pretty shiny.

I'm wondering if I shouldn't go back to an Extended E9th like I had on my roasted Sierra. I find that I currently use all 3 pedals and all 5 levers on most songs that I play. The one that gets used the least is my RKR which lowers 2 and 9. Maybe someone will suggest some good licks/phrases/chords to practice on that one. (I think I'll start a thread on that.)

If I DID go back to a single neck (on a double body) I think I would add the B to A lower on a pedal and maybe a G# to G lower on another pedal. But plenty of other changes come to mind that I'd like to have - none of which can't be played with some other combination.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 19 Feb 2007 7:33 pm

I currently have 8floor, 6 knees. I am going to add 5 more knees. They won't do anything, but they'll sure look impressive

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 19 Feb 2007 7:45 pm

FWIW
On my SU12 8 and 5, I use them all, almost every time I sit behind it. It is tuned Bb6/Eb9.

There are songs where I don't use any pedals, trying to get the sound from that era.

Sometimes in rock and blues songs, I use no pedals. Play the pentatonic scales mostly on one or two strings.

But, a western swing song, old time Southern Gospel song I may use all I got.

Just one man's experience.

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 19 Feb 2007 8:00 pm

I'm with b0b, 5/5 Ext E9th on my SD-12 MSA Legend.
JE:-)>

Fred Bova · Post by **Fred Bova** » 19 Feb 2007 8:39 pm

Maybe some of you should take a moment and go back and listen to Jimmy Day, Steel and Strings. 8 strings, NO Knee Levers. Take a look and listen to some of the old clips up on YouTube. Maybe this is too "primitive" to all you "high tech" players who look down your noses at "Basic Old School Country". Can someone please tell me what is wrong with "Basic Old School Country"? For that matter, what is wrong with simple, melodic, "Just Play what the Song needs" playing in any type of music ? I thought the focus was music, not pyro tech playing or flashy mechanics.

I have owned, and played as my main working instruments, some of the most collectible guitars and amps ever made. Originals, Not Reissues, 50's Les Paul's with PAF pickups, 60's Strats, Vox AC 30 , Tweed, Brown, Black Fenders, 60's Marshalls, etc. Yes, some of them I wish I still had, but I get as good a sound with a "made in China" Gretsch fitted with only a single old "Junk Box" Filtertron in the Bridge position, an $ 80 Solid State Vox amp, and a handfull of simple Boss pedals, because I know How and When to use them to add to the feeling of the song.

I have just put the two Chromatic strings and Knee Levers back on my PSG after playing it as an 8 string, NO knee levers PSG for the past few months. I've been trying to get a feel of the Basics. I believe I should even learn to play a little Without ANY pedals if I really want to understand the instrument.

Please do not mistake me for a "locked in the past nut case" who is out of touch with tech. I have made my living as a tech for the past 25 years. And I am not a Purist by any means, I play Day setup and I do not use any pics at all.

I applaud anyone who works at bringing the art of PSG making and playing into the present and future, but sometimes the attitude of some of the posts on this forum remind me of a Sat afternoon at Guitar Center, or a MIT party.

If You want and / or need it, great, use it. If someone else does not, do not prejudge their talent, gifts, or understanding.

If you were walking past a stage that was setup for a free concert in the park, and there was an old beat up Maverick setup on the side in front of a Crate Keyboard amp would you be as interested in hanging around until the band started playing, or would you just dismiss the player before hearing them based on your judgement of their equipment ?

Hmmm

The Steel Guitar Forum

How many pedals and levers do we really use?

How many pedals and levers do we really use?

Too many?

Re: How many pedals and levers do we really use?

Amount of Knee Levers I can handle