Price of New Electric Steels

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 6 Apr 2006 11:45 pm

I guess I'll come off sounding naggy but I'll bring this up anyway. I can't seem to figure out why some brand new electric wood bodied (non-pedal) steel guitars are so expensive. Let's see... there's a plank of wood, albeit a select one... It's cut to shape and painted/polished up nicely. There's a set of tuners, a pickup, a couple of pots, a bridge, a nut, a fretboard and some other hardware, maybe a face/back plate. It's not a tap-tuned, hand-graduated acoustic instrument. It's a plank of wood with strings and a pickup on it. It just doesn't add up to me when I see a new lapsteel selling for more than $1000. [This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 07 April 2006 at 12:56 AM.]

Jon den Boer · Post by **Jon den Boer** » 6 Apr 2006 11:53 pm

Jeff, I totally agree with you... some makers (who shall remain nameless here) are asking for way too much for these things I believe... while I am sure that they sound great, paying over a grand is just not feasible to me for a solid body lap steel. I bought an old National Dynamic for 300 bucks, and am happy as a clam.

Jon

Richard Brandt · Post by **Richard Brandt** » 7 Apr 2006 12:30 am

I bought two lap steels for $59.00 each from musicians friend.(Made IN China)The only complaint i had with the steels were the strings and the wooden nut.

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 7 Apr 2006 1:39 am

A Gibson Les Paul solid body for $2500?

How many components of that instrument are spit out on a CNC machine and snapped together on an assembly line?

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

Mike McBride · Post by **Mike McBride** » 7 Apr 2006 2:06 am

I wish I was a skilled craftsman so I could make & sell a few at $1000.

Wood body: $ 100

Other equipment: $300

Profit of $600: Priceless

Mike McBride · Post by **Mike McBride** » 7 Apr 2006 2:18 am

Unfortunately, my golf game & my lap steel playing are both independent of the quality & price of my equipment.

By using inexpensive gear, I can blame the equipment!

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 7 Apr 2006 2:21 am

Short answer: 'cause that's what the market will bear.

Long answer: I agree for factory-made instruments. Gerald's Les Paul is a good example. For people trying to make a living selling custom-made steels, I don't begrudge them their price. They have to sell a lot of guitars to make a decent year's salary.

Why are custom mandolin's so expensive? They're in the $2000 - $10,000 range - much more than the best custom resophonics. Yes there's hand carving of the scroll and top in F-models that takes special skills but this seems amother example of the market allowing higher prices than make sense.

Is a Stringmaster really worth $2000? I hope so if I ever sell mine!

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 7 Apr 2006 2:57 am

Jeff, I would agree with you if it was just a plank of wood the way you discribed it.

However,I assume you are talking about things a superslide. And my guess is that you have never seen or heard one up close and personal.

It is certainly much more than that. The engineering is a thing a beauty. The attention to detail is masterful. The quality of the paint job is finest I've seen on any instrument. The inner workings, especially with the inclusion of the freedom bar, are unique and complicated. The sound is sublime. And its american made.

At the Dallas show the had a running video of the factory and how they made them: I can say Detroit has nothing on Dallas when it comes to precise manufacturing machinery. They've also carefully designed stands that are designed to match perfectly.

If it were just a plank of wood with a pretty paint job, I'd never pay more than a few hundred dollars. But I've bought 3 Superslides. In my mind, the best is worth it. You can buy a Kia or you can buy a Rolls Royce. They both will get you down the road. But the Kia isn't a Rolls Royce.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 7 Apr 2006 3:00 am

BTW, I should add. If I could find a lap steel that sounded as good as the superslide for less than $1,000, I'd buy it.

I've never seen one. [This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 07 April 2006 at 04:36 AM.]

George Manno · Post by **George Manno** » 7 Apr 2006 4:09 am

A wise old man once told me that "FREE" cost too much in the end. A good case in point in the retro Fender lap steel. It sure looks like the model made back in the '50s, but don't let the looks fool you. I played a few, and in my opinion, it needs a new nut, bridge, pickup, controls and tuners. Even with cheap replacement parts, you would be looking at $300 plus labor. For that few hundred more, you could purchase a Lap King and be able to play it right out of the box. This is not an ad for them, I used Lap King just to make the point about "new" instruments. You could also take $650 to $900 and buy one of several used models being offered for sale. Gruhn in Nashville has two or three Ric 59s and a few Gibsons and Fenders all under $1000. Elderly has 8 used instruments on their list.There is a price to pay if you want quality.

GM

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 7 Apr 2006 7:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Wood body: $ 100

Other equipment: $300

Profit of $600: Priceless<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're forgetting one very important thing,- the hours spent making that guitar + a small profit margin to actually make a living.
We should be very grateful that there are people out there who are dedicated enough to actually make instruments for a marginal customer group like us.
I don't think anybody's getting rich from this...

Steinar

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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 7 Apr 2006 7:09 am

I am playing a Morrell Pro that retails for about $300 and with a couple of very minor upgrades it is a great sounding and playing steel. There are some that are worth more based on other issues; I would gladly pay $800 for a Sierra lap steel, but would not pay the $1300 for a SS. And yes, I have played one and they are quite nice! Not a month of salary nice. I love the feel and tone of the Ashers but, once again, it is fairly ridiculous to pay $2K or more for a lap guitar. Vintage instruments have it all over the new stuff in most cases, for pure value; you can almost always get your $$ back and the quality can be excellent. Prices are getting silly on those too, though. I have been predicting a burst bubble on this gear for a while but the depth of some folks pockets knows no bounds, or common sense.

Mike McBride · Post by **Mike McBride** » 7 Apr 2006 7:44 am

Right you are Steiner. When I consider my hourly rate in my real job, I figure it would cost me $1600 in labor IF I had the talent and tools.

Paul Gibson · Post by **Paul Gibson** » 7 Apr 2006 9:18 am

I own a small business and although I do not build guitars what I do is similar to the manufacturing process. In order to do a professional and precise job (which is necessary for a musical instrument) you need to have the proper equipment which is very expensive. CNC machines are at least $9000 and up (unless you have the expertise to build your own) or one can purchase a carving duplicator starting out around $3000. Add the cost of other equipment necessary, wood, pick-ups & wiring components, tuning machines and that adds to the expense. For the correct metal parts you have to have a milling machine (or something similar) to make the parts or you can have a machine shop make them for you (both are expensive). One must incorporate the cost of their tools and equipment into the price of the final product in order to pay for these items. Other factors can also increase the price of each instrument in order to earn a profit and to REMAIN IN BUSINESS. There is a very, very small market especially for non-pedal steels so any professional builder or manufacturer will not become wealthy by making and selling these instruments. I feel fortunate though that we do have builders (people I have never met like Rick Aiello, Maurice Anderson, and George Pilburn among others) who have PASSION for these instruments and the music they create and that passion not profit provides us and will keep providing us with these instruments.

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » 7 Apr 2006 10:45 am

I wish I was a skilled craftsman so I could make & sell a few at $1000.

Wood body: $ 100

Other equipment: $300

Profit of $600: Priceless

Thanks, I needed a good chuckle during the 50-100 (closer to 200 for the really cool ones) hours it takes to make these things.

PS. 600 divided into 50 is 12.

------------------
Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.

Ron Bednar · Post by **Ron Bednar** » 7 Apr 2006 12:19 pm

Jeff,
I am collaborating on a prototype 8 string lap steel with a luthier that is building the guitar right now. So far here's what the cost is without his or my labor and the rest of the needed parts:

Wood $275.00
6061-T6 Aluminum plate $300.00
Pickup $300.00
Electronics $85.00
Plan printing and reprinting $55.00
Assorted shipping costs $125.00

That's $1140.00 and more to come...
But after two years the guitar is finally being built. Hopefully the following models will be cheaper to make, but not by much...

Bill Blacklock · Post by **Bill Blacklock** » 7 Apr 2006 12:44 pm

WOW,
NICE!!!!! steel Ron.

Jason Dumont · Post by **Jason Dumont** » 7 Apr 2006 1:02 pm

It's one thing to know the price of something and quite another to know the VALUE of it.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 7 Apr 2006 1:02 pm

You forgot to add in something for that beautiful abalone trim!!! nice, nice, nice!
Erv

Loni Specter · Post by **Loni Specter** » 7 Apr 2006 1:22 pm

Ron,
That's a great lookin guitar. It's gonna sound cool with that Lollar Horse shoe!

Good luck with them.
Loni
LapDancer Guitars

Ron Bednar · Post by **Ron Bednar** » 7 Apr 2006 1:28 pm

Thanks guys! Hopefully have the thing strung up and singing in a couple months.

Want to try one Jeff?

Thank you Loni, I appreciate that.

Cheers, Ron

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 7 Apr 2006 2:04 pm

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 7 Apr 2006 4:11 pm

...at todays prices:

Wood frame $6.00
Canvas $0.75
Tacks $0.05
Oil paint $5.00

Mona Lisa - PRICELESS!

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 7 Apr 2006 6:10 pm

Hummmmmm, do you think that the person that paid $4475.00 on E-Bay for an eight string Bigsby neck and pickup paid to much?
And this was just for the parts.

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 7 Apr 2006 6:14 pm

I did specify new, i.e. no vintage value.