Questions For All Session/Studio Steel Players

Kurt Newman · Post by **Kurt Newman** » 9 Dec 2006 10:25 pm

Hello, Steel Guitar Forum! Could you help me with some questions (of a historical nature) I have re: studio/session playing? My intention here is to get some facts straight, so that the tremendous history of the contribution of steel players to country music is not lost.

I would be eternally grateful if anybody in the SGF community had answers or leads to the following questions (which have come up in the course of research for some papers I am writing). All of these questions relate to studio steel playing and the process whereby creative contributions are made to commercial recordings (e.g. coming up with signature licks, fills, solos, etc.).

Any details regarding the nuts and bolts of studio work, changes over time in the nature of session playing, differences between working with different artists/producers, funny anecdotes, etc. are very welcome.

I am especially interested in responses related to commercial centers of country music, but I would love to hear any relevant stories from anywhere in the world, and at any time in history:

1) What is/was the typical process of coming up with intros, licks, etc? Is/was everything done "on the spot"? Do players come up with a set of possible intros that fit different chord changes that they bring to the session in anticipation of the tunes they might encounter? Is this one of the ways that the nashville number system is used by session players? Is there pressure to compose and play these intros, licks, etc. as quickly as possible, or is there allowance for time to experiment with different options? Is all studio work "on the clock"? Does/has the AFM have any policies regarding compensation for time spent "composing" parts or is it all considered part of the hourly scale?

2) Does anybody know of instances where conflicts have arisen because one player feels that another has used his "signature" material or licks on a recording? Has there ever been a legal suit based on this sort of conflict?

3) Are there any examples of steel players owning any publishing rights to songs that they have played on, on the basis of the steel parts, or attempting to get rights and royalties after the fact?

Thanks a trillion for any help you might be able to provide!

(A little bit about me and my work--feel free to ignore: My name is Kurt Newman. After spending some time in Austin, TX, getting to see all of the great players there on a regular basis, and studying for two years with Neil Flanz, I have become a confirmed steel enthusiast. My "day job," however,is studying US history. I am pursuing a PhD in History at University of California, Santa Barbara. The particular slice of history that I work on is that of the 20th century south, which means that I do research on relatively recent southern history-- up to and including the 1970s, '80s, and '90s. My area of specialization is labor history-- I focus on the everyday working lives of people who work for a living, as well as the history of labor unions. Gathering some info related to these questions is part of the early stages of a book-length project that I hope to complete on country session and studio musicians, and musicians unions in the south, in the years between World War II and the 1980s.)

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 9 Dec 2006 11:24 pm

It has probably happened, but I know of no case where a session player has been offered a share of the copyright in exchange for making up an intro or signature lick. It's considered part of the job. There usually isn't much there to copyright, and players (especially steel players) tend to play the same intro on hundreds of songs.
Sometimes a sideman can become a co-writer, but his contribution would proably have to be more substantial than a guitar lick. In my opinion there are many examples where the arrangement is more substantial, and more identifiable by the public, than the composition (e.g. Gordon Jenkins, Nelson Riddle) but the songwriter rarely feels that way.
The reward that Grady Martin got for the intro to "Oh, Pretty Woman" was that he got called to play on lots of other recordings. And for most of them, I would guess that he was glad to get scale rather than a share of the copyright (a bird in the hand, etc).

Robert Jones · Post by **Robert Jones** » 10 Dec 2006 5:11 am

Kurt I certainly am not one of the formost session players but will be happy to let you know what I do when I am in session. I am not worried about a signature lick from someone else. I doubt that they would be worried about me playing it as well. I simply try to play licks that make the song sound as good as it can. I use different tracks and let the producer pick and choose which one they might think sounds best in that spot. As far as putting it together as fast as possible I can't say. I know that money is always an issue when cutting tracks. As far as what the scale is going to be that is going to depend on the studio itself. Here in Arkansas it may differ somewhat than in California where you are. I would check with the studios where you are going to record and find out how they handle that. When it comes to recording rights that would be up to you and the artist you are working for. Unless you are under a contract with the person you are doing the session with I doubt that you are going to receive any copyrights unless the song gets air play. If that is the case then I would certainly be in touch with a lawyer and have them make sure the contract has all the "I"s dotted and the "T"s crossed. I know there is much more to be said about this. I hope this helps some for you. My 2 cents worth.

------------------
Mullen Royal Percision D-10 Red Laquar Pearl inlay 8&8
"Life is too short for bad tone".

[This message was edited by Robert Jones on 10 December 2006 at 05:17 AM.]

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 10 Dec 2006 5:26 am

Kurt, those are some serious questions. Let me try to give you un-long winded answers from one who's there.

1) Unless the artist/producer/arranger has a preconceived notion of what the intro should be, it's just on the spot, on the floor. It's anybody's game, and one thing might be settled on immediately, or differing ideas might get batted around. Some guys have what we call "bedroom licks," something they've worked on at home and mentally stored away for a moment in time. There is pressure, but it's different than it used to be. We used to cut a whole album in a day. Now, when they can take up to a week or more for an album... well, anybody can be a "musical genius" if they can take all that time to come up with something. That was the magic of the "A-team." They came up with career creating licks in a few minutes. No extra compensation for parts, just part of the job.

2) That's why we have "good Brent" and "bad Brent."

If you think I'm going any further into that one, you're nuts. No suits.

3) If a guy writes a song, he will have publishing rights. If he plays on it... nope. The only "royalties" we have are from the Union's Special Payments Fund. The record companies pay into it, and each year monies are paid out to musicians according to the number of union sessions they've done over the past 5 years. The more sessions, the more money.

Hope this helps...

------------------
Mikey D...

mtulbert · Post by **mtulbert** » 10 Dec 2006 5:34 am

Hi Kurt,

I was not a player in my youth but a recording engineer in Nashville during the 70's I got to work with most of the top players including Lloyd,Weldon,Hal,Buddy,Pete Drake,Stu Basore etc.

In those days there was very little charted if anything. The artisit would play either a tape of the song or just strum it out on the guitar. It was once in a blue moon where the producer would have a preconceived lick for the band to play. These guys were so creative, that it was easier to let them put together the arrangement.

Now certain guys think certain ways. After a really great session with Hal Rugg, who played out of his shoes that day I asked him how he kept going from session to session and not repeating a theme. He told me that he always keys into the vocals. The melody was where he would find his licks and not be concerned about using the same fill all day on different sessions.

It was also interesting that once the arrangement was set, the players normally played the same thing on each take until the producer was happy.

There is always an exception to the rule and that was Buddy. He really kept you on your toes and rarely played the same thing twice during the tracking of a tune. No one else I know of could do that on the fly and keep each version fresh and different. An amazing player to say the least.

To sum it up...if you don't have access to the charts before hand, key on the vocals and that should give you ideas of what to play.

Regards,

Mark T.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Dec 2006 5:44 am

Kurt, "signature licks" (of the type played on pedal steel) are copied all the time. But normally, it's not done on major releases.

As far as how they "come up with stuff", I believe that's called "imagination". It's a faculty all of us have, but some are just better at it than others.

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 10 Dec 2006 6:49 am

Keying into the vocal is the heart and soul of it all... or it was before the barband mentality starting running around here. It still is for some of us. If I can't hear the vocal well enough, I'll ask for a lyric sheet to see what the song is saying.

mtulbert... do I know you?

------------------
Mikey D...

Kurt Newman · Post by **Kurt Newman** » 10 Dec 2006 3:20 pm

Earnest,Michael, mtulbert, Robert, and everybody else who has weighed in-- thanks so much for your thougtful replies! They are very, very helpful! I hope you won't mind if I show up here now and again to ask follow-up questions and pose other related queries.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 10 Dec 2006 9:43 pm

Are there any examples of steel players owning any publishing rights to songs that they have played on, on the basis of the steel parts

I haven't done very many sessions, as of late, because the word got out that I suck. Be that as it may, there was a period that I did a bit of work playing on film scores. There was one, it may have been "Men Don't Leave", where we were all in the studio and talking in between takes for the main title. One of the times while we were talking, I was absent-mindedly picking the guitar and the tape was rolling. Tom liked what I did, kept it for the cue and gave me a percentage of the publishing.

Kurt Newman · Post by **Kurt Newman** » 10 Dec 2006 10:00 pm

Chas, it is insane that anybody would say that you suck. On the contrary, you rock.

Thanks for the info on the film music angle-- a very valuable example. I wonder-- does Jay Dee Maness, for instance, get any sort of royalties or residuals for the "Dukes of Hazzard" cues? (which, incidentally, still
sound fantastic.)

I just recalled that Neil once told me that Weldon Myrick's picking inspired Connie Smith to write the vocal part that became "I'll Come Running." I don't have any of the orignal Connie Smith recordings around, so I cannot check to see if Myrick is credited... but my guess, on the basis of what you all have said about the expectations that steel players go into sessions with, is that he wouldn't have been.

The other example that came to mind is that of Bud Isaacs, of course, whose parts definitely seem to have been integral to some of those Webb Pierce tunes. I also heard that Pierce might have bought pedal steels for Isaacs or others to play, which he kept. Was this practice ever done by other singer/stars?

Finally, do any of the fiddle/tele players/enthusiasts know about the situation with theses instruments in the studio context? Do/did all country instrumentalists/studio players essentially go through the same drill?

Jack Solomon · Post by **Jack Solomon** » 10 Dec 2006 10:13 pm

In answer to royalty ? I heard of one time where Garth Brooks gave a couple of players publishing rights who during the break betwwen sessions came up with an arrangement for for a PD ( public Domain)
song he recorded. This rarely happens as in most cases the artist or producer takes the pub. However if an arranger is contracted for arranging a PD song he has the right to ask for pub. rights to that song. I hope this helps. Jack Solomon

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 11 Dec 2006 10:16 am

Chas wrote

I was absent-mindedly picking the guitar and the tape was rolling. Tom liked what I did, kept it for the cue and gave me a percentage of the publishing.

Actually, I have heard of cases like that. So I exaggerated when I said I didn't know of anything like that. It has even happened to me, but never on anything that actually made any money (of course!)
And for every story like that, there are a hundred times where an experienced composer, faced with a situation where he needs some source music such as country which he knows nothing about, finds a local band and offers them more cash than they make at their bar gig and says "just fool aournd and make something up." And later the band learns that the weasel copyrighted what they played.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 11 Dec 2006 10:21 am

does Jay Dee Maness, for instance, get any sort of royalties or residuals for the "Dukes of Hazzard" cues?

That was done under the TV Film agreement, so the players get paid only once. Players get paid for Reuse under some other collective bargaining agreements, such as Live TV (Tonight Show, awards shows), or jingles.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 11 Dec 2006 11:12 am

Hi, Kurt, and welcome...
Being a small fish in a medium pond here in ATL I may not have much of interest. Occasionally I get a session where we all record together, as in the Nashville heydays. There is a fine and fun collaboration on those dates. Many of the session players here are very creative, and very entertaining individuals. Good times.
Most of the sessions I get are overdubs, and it is fairly easy to draw from the already recorded parts to see what supports the song in it's current state. I've noticed less demand for "signature" licks lately, and more ambient or supportive playing required.
None of the pro session players I know expect to be cut in on publishing. At my studio, everyone signs work-for-hire agreements just to keep everything on the up-and-up.
I'm still in awe of the ability of the Nashville A teamers over the years to come up with such hooky playing time and again. Real creativity.

One of my favorite session stories: An overdub date for Turner to get a short steel part to be used on a "Josie and the Pussycats" cartoon, where the girls (cats) are all playing different genres of music, with a brief "country" segment with one of the cats playing steel.
As usual, after setting up (in the control room) I was playing a little bit to help the strings set in before tuning.
They were running the film on the console monitor. I then tuned up and told them I was good to go, when they told me they had all they needed! The engineer had recorded my noodling... I lobbied for an actual take, but they were sure they had it.
Sure enough, when they sent me the film dub, it sounded fine.
Literally 3 minutes work, and also one of the best session paychecks I've ever gotten. Please, Mr., may I have another?

------------------
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 11 Dec 2006 11:18 am

As for your question #2...
Just in from this week's "Rolling Stone":

Nearly four decades after the Summer of Love anthem "A Whiter Shade of Pale" was released in 1967, Procal Harum organist Matthew Fisher is suing his former bandmate Gary Brooker for a cut of the song's royalties. The two appeared in a London court on November 13th; the suit argues that Fisher's distinctive organ melody was integral to the song's success.

I'm interested in how this one ends up.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 11 Dec 2006 11:20 am

This all brings up an interesting debate about making art, and one that I've been involved in.

I work for a group of artists, where I help them realize their work. For Nancy Rubins, she describes what the piece is going to be, I design and fabricate the armature that makes it happen. And recently, for Paul McCarthy, there was a large (24' x 42' x 30') animated sculpture, called The Underwater World. I was given a small foam core model of the shapes and their relationship to each other and a description of what he wanted them to do. My job was to figure out how to do it and deliver the finished sculpture, 2000 hours later.

When we were doing the installation, there was a person writing for a Czech publication that was incensed that Paul was getting full credit for the piece and that I wasn't. My explanation was simply that, left to my own devices, I would never have built such a thing and that it was no different than being called in to take a solo on somebody else's tune.

The artist makes art. He, or she, might push some paint around with a brush or chip away at a rock with a hammer and chisel. Or the artist might hire a group of people with specialized skills to build something. It's all the same thing. The artist is exerting influence to make something happen.

Bach put dots, lines and wiggley cryptography on paper. This is, in turn, interpreted, by musicians, to make music. He's been dead for over 250 years and it's still recognized that it's his piece and that the written instructions are his influence on the musicians who are playing.

I've been in recording situations where the composer is composing with musicians. Each musician brings their skills and interpretation to the session. The composer might lay down a piano line and describe what he wants to hear. Each musician then plays into it until it's realized. It's his piece, not ours. We got paid and if it was Union, there was a "back-end".

Herbie Meeks · Post by **Herbie Meeks** » 12 Dec 2006 8:56 pm

Help record a hit that puts an artist
in the limelight
And if your Steel is not really unique
so much so, that He/She needs that sound
on a follow up,
It's doubtful, they would give you
the, Time of day, if you asked.

Herbie

------------------

Kurt Newman · Post by **Kurt Newman** » 13 Dec 2006 3:29 pm

Thanks Mark, Chas, and everybody else who has added replies to this thread. It is really really helpful stuff... I am going to begin a new thread with some different, but related questions, and I hope that you will all weigh in, if you have the time and inclination.

Kurt Newman · Post by **Kurt Newman** » 13 Dec 2006 3:45 pm

Oh, I almost forgot to follow up on Ernest's super-helpful reply re: Maness and the "Dukes of Hazzard" (and I apologize in advance for my rank ignorance here)-- what is the TV Film agreement? Do you know who negotiated it (AFM? The entetainment guilds?) How long has it been in effect?

Again, thanks so much for your help!

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 18 Dec 2006 6:25 am

Hi Kurt, I don't know what the percentage is but on many sessions where the artist has a demo tape of the song many times they will use the exact intro's and turn arounds that were on the demo.

I don't know how much that happens today but it use to happen quite often. Many artist searching for songs will go to the publishing companies and ask for songs and the company might have hundreds of pre-recorded songs that the writer had demoed so that an artist could come and listen to it in hopes of getting it cut.

If the writer had good players play on the demo (many times it was the same players that played on the demos as well as the masters) and they played nice licks then the artist will ask for the players to repeat those licks. Like I said keep in mind that was in the "old" days. I don't know how much that happens today.

Bob

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 18 Dec 2006 7:16 am

In the old days there would not be a demo tape to listen to that would be anywhere polished or have great hooks and such. It was up to the producer to either come up with the magic or hire creative players and harness their talents to produce the song.

These days, most of the so called "producers" don't have the skill to come up with these ideas. The song demos are much more intricate and most have some good intros and hooks and such in them. The demos are many times just copied in the new key for the artist that is doing them. There will be some changes made here and there, but nothing like the times when an artist would come in with just a flat top and sit on a stool and sing the song and then the players would totally create the finished product.

You just about have to have a song in a finished demo format before you can get any one to really take any interest in it these days.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 18 Dec 2006 8:19 am

About a third of my yearly income is from studio work in NYC and the bulk of it is way off the industry economic grid. The desolving of the industry lock on music has had some interesting benefits. There are thousands of home made CDs being cranked out every week by just about anybody. If they want pedalsteel on there tunes they need to pay a steel player. If the steel players rep is good he can charge real money. There are even a bunch of legendary steel players that because of the standard A team recording system have trouble getting arrested near a studio that find themselves working quite a bit on all these self produced and indie projects.

There may not be an intern to order lunch or a reception babe to bring you coffee as often these days but there is quite a bit of studio work to be had.

------------------
Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 18 December 2006 at 08:20 AM.]