new styles of music vs old country

Roger Pietz · Post by **Roger Pietz** » 29 Sep 2006 11:02 pm

I know for a fact where the steel was first used On a Island one of our 50 states then some blues and country. Do enough of you out there realize the times are changing and that this remarkable instrument can play some really nice mixed styles of music. I am 56 so the old country really don't do that much for me, but if it gets me in the door thats fine, I am desperate thirsting for knowlege. But the mindset of the steel is for country only wake up out there the new kids are coming and they need your brains so help them out and don't be so darn bull-headed.Yes I am also a Ex prison Guard.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 30 Sep 2006 5:07 am

Roger, welcome to our reality.

There are those firmly entrenched in a single way of doing things. heir way isn't bad - but it'd sure be nice if they were more tolerant of a wider variety of pedal steel music.

It's a battle that never seems to stop.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 30 Sep 2006 5:58 pm

Roger..any kids that want my brains can have them...whatever is left of them.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 30 Sep 2006 6:26 pm

Yes, any kind of music can be played on the steel guitar, but should it be?

How about Sleep Walk on a harp?

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 30 Sep 2006 6:47 pm

The way I see it is, the bigger the playground, the more fun it is. I use the steel in "art music", it's been used on film scores doing everything from country licks to sounds for the film "SAW" (which I didn't need to see), I record and play with a metal/noise band, it worked very well doing 30's and 40's "Americana" and over the past couple decades, I've used it in trad country, swing and rock-a-billy bands.

Anyone who thinks it's only for country has a pretty myopic perspective.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 30 Sep 2006 7:25 pm

"How about Sleep Walk on a harp?"

That actually sounds like a great idea.

One of the best duets I ever saw was in a hotel bar in Chicago - harp and upright bass doing swing and bebop.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 30 Sep 2006 8:25 pm

Roger, it’s true that the majority of steel players and recordings are strictly country, but there are quite a few players and recordings of other styles.

For starts, there’s Robert Randolph.

Then there is the stuff coming out of Nigeria. This CD is the best one to get of you want to hear steel:
http://www.amazon.com/Juju-Music-King-Sunny-Ade/dp/B000003QI0

Some players you ought to check out:

Joe Goldmark, who has recorded music by everybody from the Beatles to Frank Zappa to Jimi Hendrix. All of Joe’s CDs are excellent. My personal favorite is called “All Over The Road.

David Phillips playing with Jack West and Curvature. This band plays semi-acoustic jazz fusion. B0b sells this CD on the forum.

Ned Selfe. Ned composes music for steel and dobro. His CD of original compositions is called “Errands In Paradise.” Highly recommended.

Robert Powell. Another composer who writes original compositions for guitar and steel. His CD “Desert Beach” is more guitar than steel oriented, but nonetheless contains a lot of fine steel playing.

Bruce Kaphen- Slider. Ambient new age steel playing.

B.J. Cole- His first 2 CDs, “Transparent Music” and “The Heart Of The Moment” are also ambient new age. Cole than switched hats and recorded 2 CDs of techno- rock.

Marshall Hall –“Classical Steel Guitar.” The granddaddy of all classical efforts on the steel. This Lp has been out of print for years and is pretty much impossible to find, and to be truthful, there are places where the steel and accompanying synth are painfully out of tune with each other, but Hall’s unaccompanied version of Chopin’s ‘Nocturnes” is one of the loveliest recordings ever made on a pedal steel guitar

Doug Jernagan- Doug and Bucky and Jazz by Jernigan

Buddy Emmons. Steel guitar jazz, Minors allowed (with Lenny Breau) and Buddies (with Buddy Spicher)

Paul Franklin, Play By Play- great jazz-rock fusion.

Bobby Black- Honky Cat- pop rock from the late 70s

Chas Smith and Susan Alcorn, whose avant-garde experiments are stretching the very definition of the word music.

Bob Taillifer, who has a new CD of latin jazz.

Jim Cohen, new CD of 60s rock tunes

And lastly, myself. My first CD contains works by Stravinsky, Debussy, Bartok, Shostakovich and other 20th century composers, and my second one is the entire soundtrack to West Side Story.

I’m sure I left out as many worthwhile non-country artists and recordings as I mentioned. My apologies to those who I omitted.

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Mark Treepaz · Post by **Mark Treepaz** » 30 Sep 2006 10:59 pm

Yep! The biggest limitation is that of one's own imagination.

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Graham · Post by **Graham** » 1 Oct 2006 6:46 am

It all comes down to the listener's preference. Instead of bickering and raising issues like this, learn to live with it. Let those who like country ,listen to country, those who like jazz, rock etc. listen to jazz, rock etc.

Neither takes away from the listener's love of the instrument and isn't that the main thing??

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Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 1 Oct 2006 7:45 am

I used to like and play any kid of music years ago but i got to where i could no longer stand to play country.I watched an old Wilburn Bros.TV show last night and realize why i no longer care for what is called country music.
Telling my age now,but wow after watching Hal Rugg ,Buddy Spicher and the drummer sure looked like Jimmy Stewart the drummer i used to work the road with years ago ,if country was stll played like that,wow.
Of course i don't think Connie Smith could make it now if she was just starting out because she can actually sing,and on key.lol [This message was edited by Tracy Sheehan on 01 October 2006 at 08:47 AM.]Almost forgot to mention that smooth rhythm section.
Wasn't a free for all.lol[This message was edited by Tracy Sheehan on 01 October 2006 at 08:53 AM.] [This message was edited by Tracy Sheehan on 01 October 2006 at 08:56 AM.] [This message was edited by Tracy Sheehan on 01 October 2006 at 09:02 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 1 Oct 2006 8:09 am

I listen to music that is beyond my ability for inspiration. I play the music that's inside of me to inspire others. I really don't care what style of music it is.

Style is for teenagers, trying to find their identity in a complex world, trying to hook up with people who think like them. Style is a mating dance. At 57, I'm too old to worry about such things.

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T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 1 Oct 2006 9:03 am

I play steel in a band that does hip hop. Does that count as a style of music?
TC

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 1 Oct 2006 9:19 am

T.C. - heck yes, and I think that's a great idea! So is reggae, ska, funk, punk, metal...no limits.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 1 Oct 2006 9:35 am

The way I see it, there's two kinds of music in the world---Country and Western!

Really, the two kinds of music I see are PLAYED WELL and NOT PLAYED WELL.

Joe Wright plays much more than just country. Good music is good music to Joe.

Sara Jory was at St Loius this year, and she plays music---country, rock, pop, blues or what ever, and does a KILLER job, too. Not only is she taking steel in different directions, but she is also showing that it's not just a man's instrument! Ithink there a lot of guys that would be hard pressed to "take her" on steel! More women should take up steel. Way to go, SARA!!

Me, I play older country because that's what I love, and can relate to enough to get me playing my steel. It ain't all there is for me---later on when my skill level "gets there", I'd like to try other styles, too.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 1 Oct 2006 12:05 pm

The real test is met when the steel guitarist appeals to all audiences, whatever kind of music he plays. And, this is very much in the realm of possibility __ just like some singers (Elvis, Tony Bennett, Sinatra, etc).

That all kinds of music can be played on steel guitar doesn't mean that it will be. There are attempts at all kinds of music on steel guitar and a great deal of it not only sounds bad __ it sounds really bad.

I know some of the bad stuff on steel guitar will sound great to, maybe another steeler who is saying to himself, "boy I wish I could do that".

But, now come on, isn't the real proof in who will buy it?

You notice I did not mention country, western, or Hawaiian. But, can the piece be made to fit the sound of the steel guitar and can you make the delivery?

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 1 Oct 2006 1:59 pm

"But, now come on, isn't the real proof in who will buy it?"

Not at all.

Example - The Byrds Sweetheart of the Rodeo was one of their worst-selling albums of all times, and yet is considered to be oone of the most influential albums in "rock" music - because it brazenly went where rock bands didn't go, headfirst into country. Rock audiences hated it, country audiences ignored it - and yet over time it became a cornerstone.

Sales have NOTHING to do with "music". They have to do with "audience entertainment". Those to items are not the same thing.

Some people play music to make money. That may also be creative for them. For some it's a just a job.

Others play music to create art and could care less about the income derived from it. They play what's in their heads and hearts.

If your idea of "proof" of musical worth is in the financial gain, you'd make a great A&R guy. Those are the guys responsible for all of the fine commercial music we hear today....

:-P

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 1 Oct 2006 5:47 pm

More people watch reruns of Gilligan's Island every week than will watch all the movies of Shakespeare's plays combined oner the course of 5 years. Does that mean that Gilligan's Island is greater than Shakespeare?

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Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 1 Oct 2006 7:41 pm

Sales have NOTHING to do with "music".

Wrong __ AGAIN I might add.

The driving force behind most professional musicians to sustain their careers is recorded music and ticket sales to the live performance.

To say that the creative instinct of the musician is also a factor, (or part of the driving force), would however be correct.

Bobby Johnson · Post by **Bobby Johnson** » 1 Oct 2006 8:11 pm

I always love the steel even when i could not play it. Steel on a country song was like the iceing on the cake. You knew when it was there. But you knew when it was'nt there also. But yet when i think about Poco and what Rusty Young added to them it was differant but very good. The New Riders of Purple Sage. Wow. Not to say the least the steel Linda Ronstadt had as well. Even tho alot of that was called Rock it seem to somehow came to Country Rock. So i think it has alot of great stuff to add to todays music. Be interesting to see what it sounds like. Never hurts to explore. But to me i love it so much in country. And always will.[This message was edited by Bobby Johnson on 01 October 2006 at 09:13 PM.]