Tuning a Steel

Sam White R.I.P. · Post by **Sam White R.I.P.** » 30 Dec 2005 4:01 pm

I was reading the PSGA news letter that came today. I reading all about the tuning that Jeff Newman had. I used that tuning and I liked it. I was at a Semminar that Mike Calaway gave at the MASGA Kanapolis Steel Guitar Jam.Mike told us that he tune every string 440 except the third and sixth and they are Minuis five.He said now listen to them as I play them and tell me they are not in tune. Well I now tune my steel that way and it sounds great and it stays in tune.
Sam White

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 1 Jan 2006 5:54 am

I applaud your post, Sam. I've tried Jeff's, and it works well, but I get good results with a simplified version of Mike Perlowin's tuning, which is to tamper the thirds and sixths slightly. There had to be a simpler way, and there is.

Sidney Ralph Penton · Post by **Sidney Ralph Penton** » 1 Jan 2006 6:38 am

i have not been playing that long but the first thing i learned was there are many different ways to tune a psg. I got a book when i frist started from scotty's in st louis and i use the tunning chart from the book. there are a few steel players around here and their tunning is about the same as the one in the book. about the only thing i play is gospel music and it sounds pretty good. but then when your as ugly as me you have to have something to sound nice to draw the attention away from yourself. doc

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zum SD10 peavy vegas 400 peavy session 400 steelseats they are great at sales@steelseats.com
if its not a zum steel it isn't real
just trying to steel for the Lord>

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 1 Jan 2006 7:14 am

Sam,
That's the tuning setup I have been using for years since I first saw it by Jeff Newman. I think maybe he later revised it upwards, in that everything was tuned upwards from 440.
Erv

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 1 Jan 2006 8:49 am

what about the raises and lowers : for example raising the E to F# do you still tune it to F# at 440 ?

calvin

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 1 Jan 2006 10:16 am

A steel guitar cannot be tuned.

At least that is what i've learned over the years on this forum!

Terry

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Jan 2006 10:54 am

I'm more in favor of the "tune it so it sounds in-tune" method. Frankly, I don't believe a chart of presets will work for different steels, which have different string-lengths, different string guages, and different players playing. Will it get you in the ball-park? Yes, but I feel way too many players accept the methods of Jeff (or any one else) as gospel when they were really meant as just a starting "point of reference" that would work for newbies until they developed their ear to where they could hear when they were in tune.

"One size fits all."

Yeah, that would be nice, but it's just as much a pipe dream for tuning offsets as it is for underwear.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 01 January 2006 at 10:55 AM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 1 Jan 2006 11:22 am

EJL

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 1 Jan 2006 2:24 pm

Ever listened to a guy playing "out of tune" for several sets........only to hear him next mention that he always uses this method or that for tuning-up. It's sorta like: the more one can make it appear to be a monumental or near impossible task, the more masterful one sounds when they're boasting of their peculiar method.
It's hard to hear anyone anymore, boast of being in tune and knowing it sounds good. Right on Donny!
Being in tune..........is being IN TUNE!
There's no "almost" about it. Being "in tune" with oneself and out of tune with everyone else in the band is not nice.[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 01 January 2006 at 02:25 PM.]

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 2 Jan 2006 9:15 am

A steel guitar cannot be tuned

ain`t that a truth...
Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 2 Jan 2006 10:01 am

Donny-good thoughts. When I played non pedal for years,then a D8,no problem tuning. I had good relative pitch.

BUT when I switched to Pedal Steel, it was a lot harder to keep these contraptions tuned right, and developing a good ear makes it a lot easier.....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 2 Jan 2006 10:35 am

Calvin, I use whatever 'offset' on the pedals and levers as on the open tuning.
If I'm tuning my 3rds, etc., a hz or two flat, I use that same figure on the raises and lowers.
I do it by ear, then note the amount flat, and replicate that amount on the raises.
But there are no rules; in the end, it's how it sounds to your ear.

But Terry's right, it can't be tuned.

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 2 Jan 2006 11:10 am

I don't have to worry about that stuff. Mitsuo Fugii told me that he tuned my Excel before he left Japan with it.

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Speaking of tuning, at one of the steel guitar shows last year, just a couple of minutes before John Hughey went on stage I told him I had noticed that all of his tuning keys were oriented in a different direction, so I turned them all so they were neatly oriented in a straight line parallel to the strings. John is such a nice guy, he just thanked me over and over.

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Visit my Web Site at RoysFootprints.com
Browse my Photo Album and be sure to sign my Guest Book.

[This message was edited by Roy Ayres on 02 January 2006 at 11:11 AM.]

Kenny Dail · Post by **Kenny Dail** » 3 Jan 2006 2:35 pm

I played in a band for a while and the guitar player (Jerry Hayes) would turn one ofmy strings down and wouldn't tell me which one. [This message was edited by Kenny Dail on 03 January 2006 at 02:37 PM.]

Sidney Ralph Penton · Post by **Sidney Ralph Penton** » 5 Jan 2006 7:08 am

sam i misunderstood what you said i thought that you tuned the 3rd string to 435 and the 6th to 445. that is the way i have mine tuned now and it sounds good to me. learn things evry day. doc

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zum SD10 peavy vegas 400 peavy session 400 steelseats they are great at sales@steelseats.com
if its not a zum steel it isn't real
just trying to steel for the Lord>

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 5 Jan 2006 7:50 am

I had noticed that all of his tuning keys were oriented in a different direction, so I turned them all so they were neatly oriented in a straight line parallel to the strings.

Roy, I tried that but I still don't sound like John Hughey.

Maybe it IS all in the hands...

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

Patrick Layher · Post by **Patrick Layher** » 5 Jan 2006 12:07 pm

Tell me if I'm all screwed up. I have tried alot of different tunings, they never came out just right and I couldn't stand it. So, I tune the 8th string open to 338 and then take EVERYTHING to that by ear.

The reason I take it to 338, is because any higher and I break alot of strings. Which brings us to the question, why do I brake so many strings? I read posts of people bragging that they never brake one. But if I tune up to 440, #3 only lasts me 3-4 hours and then it cuts my finger.

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 5 Jan 2006 4:00 pm

You mean they are supposed to be tuned? I thought they came from the factory already tuned.My D10 Carter was.Tracy

Jack Latimer · Post by **Jack Latimer** » 6 Jan 2006 7:26 am

Sam, thanks for your opening thoughts on tuning. I've been tuning to the Jeff Newman style for a year now and it does sound good, but quite frankly it just about blows my mind trying to remember all the different settings. I've been trying your method and it sounds just as good on my guitar and it's so much easier to tune. To each his own, but for my little MSA it works nice. Thanks for saving my brain.

Bob Mainwaring · Post by **Bob Mainwaring** » 6 Jan 2006 10:05 am

I've read all kinds of postings regarding tuning and what kind/types of tuners to use and which is the "best" etc..
I tune my Z.Bs straight up and place my bar on third fret and play all the strings one at a time. Then I place the bar at 12th fret and try again - depending on what make of string, or what guage you're using at any particular time depends on what will the intonation be like and to tune the rest by ear.Regular six string guitar players have always been plagued by upper string possitions especially the lower strings up the neck as these mostly play "sharp".
On any given night(or day) a whole heap of things come into play such as placing your bar on the strings straight out of the case.
I always place the bar in my pants pocket during setting up to allow it to warm up to the particular room temperature. The actual places where the string sits - from, and too, have a remarkable effect on temperature differences. The amount of metal (diameters)that's in the nut rollers and finger thickness all have their own characteristics.Even the time away from a break makes small differences in all the above.
I'm sure that there are people out there who don't give a "monkey's toss" to all the small differences that steel players have to go through to enable a good nights pickin' and grinnin'

Bob Mainwaring Z.B.est

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 6 Jan 2006 10:15 am

What Donny Hinson said. A steel guitar has to be tuned to itself. 3rd and 6th intervals -13 to -15. The important thing is to get the beats out by ear.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 6 Jan 2006 2:05 pm

You guys are talking about at least three different things. First, if you are only talking about tweaking the strings every time you sit down at the guitar, yes, just flatting the 3rds a little from ET is about all you have to do. On most modern pedal steels, the pedal and knee stops (that may involve other intervals) don't have to be retuned very often.

Second, if you have a decent ear (and you can't play this instrument without one) it is always easier to set your root strings to a meter, keyboard, or some other source, and tune everything to those reference strings by ear. This is the time honored way of tuning a pedal steel, and the way it was done before chromatic meters came along. It can take care of JI, beats, tampering (tuning between untempered JI and equal tempered ET), and cabinet drop. You don't have to have a complicated tuning chart in your head. If you do this in the proper sequence (always tune the changer stops to the unchanged strings in the most common chord the stops are used for), it all works out pretty well.

Three, if you want to be able to fine tune all your strings and stops in situations where you cannot hear yourself, then you need a written or memorized tuning chart. Published charts like Newman's may or may not be right for your particular guitar and ears. The best thing to do is tune everything carefully by ear as above, in a situation where you can hear, then check every string and stop with a meter and write down where you are. You really need to do this several times, and take the average. That is then the personal chart for you and your guitar.

You will be surprised how far this deviates from the meter's equal tempered tuning. Major thirds and 7ths are around 16 cents (4 Hz from 440) flat, minor thirds and 7ths are about the same amount sharp, and 6ths are, unh, I forget. Then you have to deal with cabinet drop. I like to split the difference of my cabinet drop between the open pedal position and the pedals-down position, so that at the nut I will be as close as possible to 440 with pedals either up or down. But lower levers also cause cabinet raise. Because of this kind of thing, you can end up with strange settings to half a Hz, as in the Newman chart. But for practical purposes, you only need to be within about 5 cents (1.25 Hz) of where you should be. So you can round and jiggle things a little here and there in your chart to come up with a chart that doesn't look so hairy, and is easier to remember.

There's no way around that this is one of the most complicated instruments to tune and keep in tune. But some small compromises can work fine and simplify things.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 6 Jan 2006 2:50 pm

Dave, I'll buy that. Nothing substitutes for a good ear.

Chris Erbacher · Post by **Chris Erbacher** » 6 Jan 2006 2:55 pm

funny how we are all playing a musical instrument that can't be tuned, and to think it was the sound that first interested me

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 6 Jan 2006 3:39 pm

I know, Chris. Ironic.