may be a dumb question

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 21 Nov 2005 11:41 am

i notice that on the pro model steels that the fret board is raised , where on the sutdent models its not. does this make any differance ?
just wondering

calvin

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ZumSteel [This message was edited by Calvin Walley on 21 November 2005 at 11:42 AM.]

Mark Vinbury · Post by **Mark Vinbury** » 21 Nov 2005 12:05 pm

Aside from the "yea, about $1000" answer-- I believe these days the raised fretboard usually means the guitar has an aluminum "neck"to which most of the hardware(pickup,changer,etc.) is attached.Then this "neck" is affixed to a platform,usually of plywood or die board.
Seems like the student models skip the alu. "neck" and everything gets fastened directly to the platform.
How much of a difference this makes in tone or sustain will be for someone else to comment on.
I'd imagine the alu. neck helps reduce "cabinet drop" somewhat. [This message was edited by Mark Vinbury on 22 November 2005 at 05:40 AM.]

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 21 Nov 2005 12:16 pm

thanks now for another dumb question , whats cabinet drop ?

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 21 Nov 2005 12:25 pm

Calvin,
Cab drop is body flex, string(s) change pitch when pedals are engaged(not the ones the pedals are changing). If you have a close reading tuner, pick just the 4th string E, and watch the change in pitch when you engage a/b pedals.

BF[This message was edited by Bill Ford on 21 November 2005 at 12:27 PM.]

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 21 Nov 2005 1:48 pm

There are those that will argue that the distance between the neck/body and the strings will affect the sound... I will not share my opinion at this time because I have not made it up completely yet...
However, I would welcome your opinions and theories

.

... J-D.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 21 Nov 2005 2:32 pm

thanks, i had heard the term (cabinet drop)many time's here on the forum but had no idea what it was. don't guess my ear is that well trained yet. as far as the raised fret bar i kinda thought it might have something to do with money but i just did not see how a raised fret bar could add more than a few dollars to the price of a steel.

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ZumSteel [This message was edited by Calvin Walley on 21 November 2005 at 02:33 PM.]

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 21 Nov 2005 4:12 pm

Hey Calvin,
Here's a pretty good resource somebody compiled a while back that has links to a discussion of cabinet drop, along with many other interesting things. Like discussions about tuning. http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum7/HTML/003246.html

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 22 Nov 2005 1:33 am

Calvin,
To answer your question correctly you'll need the opinion of a top notch luthier. For the same reason that certain woods and designs go into normal guitars, the same sort of argument goes for the steel. It is purported that the 'alu' neck and various other body parts on an expexpensive steel is there for a reason other than just money. Better 'overtone' response, better sustain, etc. etc. I always thought my Emmons d10 had a better tone, sustain, and constrution than my student model. You mean I was wrong all this time??? My...what a scary thought!

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Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 22 Nov 2005 7:20 am

I can run faster with $200 tennis shoes.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 22 Nov 2005 7:21 am

Cabinet drop is what you get from airline baggage handlers and misbehaving baggage conveyors.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 22 Nov 2005 7:47 am

The one reason I know for a raised fret board is in low light conditions.

You have a better chance makeing long distance bar jumps,
with a bit of shadow and reflection down under.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 22 Nov 2005 8:30 am

I just wanted to clear up some confusion in the above posts about part names and materials.

The fretboard is the thin slab of metal or plastic that the frets are painted on. Some of these (Sho-Bud mid-'70s "dust catchers") have raised fret lines and edges. But I doubt that is what you are talking about.

The neck is the block of wood or hollow aluminum under the fretboard. Some student models have no neck to save money. There is a general belief that steel guitars with aluminum necks have a brighter sound, with more sustain (the Emmons push/pull is the classic example); and guitars with wood necks have a more mellow sound. The reality is that this is a complex issue. On some guitars the neck material, and even how tightly it is attached to the body affects the tone; but in other guitars you can take the neck off, with no change in tone (Bobbe Seymour says that is what they found in designing the Sho-Bud Super Pro).

The body of most steel guitars is made from hard rock maple. The changer, pickup, and keyhead are usually attached directly to the body, not the neck. There are typically cutouts in the neck to allow this. If the neck is aluminum, attaching the changer, bridge or nut to it will make the tuning very temperature sensitive. Also, having extra surface joints between the bridge or nut and the body interferes with the connection of the strings to the solid body, and adversely affects tone. However, some people claim the '70s Emmons push/pull "bolt-ons," which had the changer bolted to the aluminum neck instead of the body, had better tone; but that model was discontinued because of temperature sensitivity problems.

Some old MSAs, and possibly other brands, used plywood for the body. Modern GFI guitars use multilaminates of rock maple. There is a big difference. Lumber company plywood is layers of rough pine attached with glue. Pine is a soft, poor tonewood for a solid-body guitar. The glue is a polymer that is actually harder, stronger and heavier than the wood; thus, plywood is stronger than solid pine. By the same token, the laminated rock maple GFI uses is stronger and harder than solid maple. It is pretty much the hardest wood there is, and is used in tool and die stamping presses. It makes a very good solid body instrument.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 22 Nov 2005 9:16 am

it makes sense that the fret board (neck) on a pro model would be raised because of the low light conditions found on some stages where us students wouldn't have that problem . not sure how we got on the subject of wood the body is made from but...there are several woods that are much harder than rock maple but they are not domestic woods , for example jatoba is a much harder wood that comes from south america it and wenge (also from south america) both are so hard that they can destroy normal wood planers if not machined correctly .there would be 2 problems with these woods 1 they are very expense 2 they are very heavy. so maple makes sense to use because of its hardness, relative light weight and its readly available ....thats my 2 cents on why the body is made from maple

thanks to all that responded

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ZumSteel

Mark Vinbury · Post by **Mark Vinbury** » 22 Nov 2005 10:23 am

Dave thanks for clearing up the construction details.I had it wrong about the pickup and changer being fastened to the alu.neck.Guess I need to take a closer look.Or get back to No Peddlars where I belong.
I've been known to be a tremendous source of misinformation.
Stands to reason that there would be tuning issues.Sure was on a alu.neck guitar I tried.Wouldn't stay in tune for 2 minutes.Soon as you put your hand on the neck----.
I just took a look at a few PSG builders sites (Carter,MSA and Fessenden) and looks as though at least the changer is attached to the "neck "in a few pics.Maybe they avoid the tuning issue by having a big cutout for the pickup.
[This message was edited by Mark Vinbury on 22 November 2005 at 11:07 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 22 Nov 2005 10:56 am

Student models are cheaply made. A raised neck is an expense. Most student models omit the raised neck to help keep the price down. It's one of many cost-saving elements of student model steel guitars.