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Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 30 Oct 2005 8:36 pm

I noticed one thing about this forum,there is too often rude and provocative reply`s to some postings.If someone posts a topic about his band, someone else will always have to make a stupid remark.If someone is trying to show off his guitar,someone else will always come up with some idiotic respond.Thank God there is many nice people on here too.I`am member of some other forums where you would expect much more of that "buba" mentality,but this place is getting redicilous.Is it possible for people to be nice to each other?If I don`t agree with someone I try to be nice and not to be rude and agressive.I just wonder what is the purpose of all that negativity.No wonder we lost many great players that used to be "locals" on here,giving tips and advices.Many don`t even wont to join or they maybe read but would not post because they are going to get a smart ass responds from some of the "brainiacs" on here.You can flame me and blame me for this post but I think that it`s time to be nice to each other again.

Db

and also,I`m tired of atitudes like "they are just humans" torwards some of the best players on the world.They used to be called a "legends" and now only because they are so easy available to us thru internet they are "just humans"?If you have Emmons,Green,Bouton,Seymour or Franklin answer a questions, that doesn`t mean that we are all in the same ligue with them.That only means they are nice enough to take their time to answer our questions.Some people need to wake up and take their ego`s where it belongs,back to the bedroom.

so,now I`m done

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html

[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 30 October 2005 at 08:48 PM.]

Al Carmichael · Post by **Al Carmichael** » 30 Oct 2005 11:36 pm

Damir--Your heart is in the right place. I, personally, have no desire to get in stupid wars of words here. I have so much respect for the members here, and am always thrilled when a pro shares personal advice. Yet, for the most part, I find these forums to be full of respect and kindness. We know we are all fighting the same cause and celebrating the same joy that is tied to pedal steel and anything played with a bar.

I've been around the internet a long time and, unfortunately, people argue sometimes. Tolerance and respect are always prerequisites, no matter how we may differ in our opinions. Still, I have to say that there is more class and decency here than any other forum I've ever been involved in. Could it be better? Sure. Will it ever be perfect? Probably not. However, I welcome your message and know where you are coming from. Its good to be reminded.

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 30 Oct 2005 11:55 pm

Hi Demir,
You are so right. A great number of us are new to the steel, and don't know anything about Steel lingo, or that certain teaching are available, etc. So we try to join the discussions and maybe pose a (stupid) question. Although some smart alec might make a snotty remark, one should just ignore it, and wait for an understanding soul to answer. There are many more 'nice' steelers on this forum. Hang in there!
Regards,
Nic

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1970 Rosewood P/P Emmons D10 Fatback 8x4
Peavey Session 500 unmodfied
My CD "Nightmare on Emmons Steel"
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<A class=db href="mailto:alsaut@absamail.co.za?subject=Forum Reply">Click here to E-mail us.</A>

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 31 Oct 2005 2:48 am

Damir I agree with you, I don't mind an occasional non sequieur or jocular ribbing.

But when it gets divisive,
or the comment is just "taking the piss"
as the Brits would say,
then it is unnessesary and gets in the way
of diseminating steel info,
teaching and learning.
And generally having a good time for ALL in here.

I have posted the occasional off the wall comment,
but generally they are recieved in the manner intended.

Some people just can't let anyone that
they generally disagree with
on some subject,
get on with their public lives in here
without disparraging commentaries.

I feel sorrry for both parties in this case.
But the "Disparrager" gets the most sympathy...WHY?,
Because they tend to NEEED IT MORE.

To be so fixated to not let sleeping dogs lie
seems much sadder, than just getting hassled a bit.

I defend your right to disagree,
but not your right to be mean, obnoxious
or defamatorily derrogatory to anyone.

Heck nobody agrees with ANYONE ELSE completely,
so why get bent when some else disagrees with you regularly.
Leave'm be, get on with life, enjoy it,
and let them do the same.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 31 October 2005 at 02:52 AM.]

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 31 Oct 2005 4:01 am

I'm afraid I have to agree with Damir's premise, due to recent mean-spirited comments I've read recently.
So it's a timely issue for me.

I've been called down on an innocent remark I made following a more intelligent post, and it made me more sensitive to the issue, which is good.
And David has, as usual, lent a cool head and some insight:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>But the "Disparrager" gets the most sympathy...WHY?,
Because they tend to NEEED IT MORE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Too true.

But I wish the disparagers here could muster the same compassion we are required to have for them before they slam somebody else.
Yes, I wish we could hear more from The Masters that you mention; but we're all human in the end, and we all deserve the same treatment and deference that they receive.

Vern Wall · Post by **Vern Wall** » 31 Oct 2005 5:02 am

Damir, that is always a problem in all internet forums. It's because we communicate by print, with no voice inflections and no body language. What would be a sly remark in real life comes across as a blatant insult when it's printed. That's why the advice for forums has always included the line, "Don't be easily offended."

Another common situation is that some people have limited social experience and shoot off their mouths before they have learned to maintain the tone of the forum. I have been guilty of that, and I have to say the other members were VERY courteous to put up with my ill considered comments; much more courteous than the members of some other forums I have visited. I think we have a great bunch here.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 31 Oct 2005 5:36 am

There is a dividing line between good honest debate, and destructive and inflammatory personal comments.

Whether some of the bigger names would participate more if there was less negativity is something that is difficult to assess. Some of the recent posts relating to the ShoBud saga have been been bordering on the inflammatory, but at the same time have been very entertaining and interesting. b0b does keep things from getting totally out of hand, but if you stifle debate completely then you end up with sterile and uninteresting posts.

Much of the flame throwing that goes on in this forum usually gets jumped upon by the more sensible element, and certainly doesn't stop my enjoyment of 99% of the content.

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 31 Oct 2005 6:03 am

Maybe if people were happier within themselves there wouldn't be so much unhappiness shown in public forums.

Not saying I have all the answers at all. just pointing out that happy folks seem to be nicer folks.

Rick
P.S. BUT wouldn't it be boring if there were no crash and burn posts?

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 31 Oct 2005 6:10 am

I strongly suspect the "bigger names" are practicing instead of fooling around on the internet.

Mike Delaney · Post by **Mike Delaney** » 31 Oct 2005 6:13 am

I also have not been posting because of insulting remarks.

To quote John Wooden, the great UCLA basketball coach, "Its OK to disagree, as long as you're not being disagreeable."

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 31 Oct 2005 6:17 am

I think, too, some people feel "safe", because they are geographicly out of reach. They make comments a little harsh, because they are looking into the monitor, instead of the eyes of those they are having a forum conversation with. Most folks welcome a little good natured banter once in a while. But some thrive on being the "devil's advocate" and thrive on a negative approach. I try to see the good in everyone's comments, and respect everyone. Some times it's hard to express good intensions with a keyboard. Sometimes I reread my own post and realise something I said could be taken different than what I intended, so I EDIT it. Yes, don't be afraid to edit a comment, that's what the edit button is for.

I may be out in left field here, but the threads I've read, that the super pickers reply to, end up with a few folks gushing worship and constant how great they think their hero is, as if they are groveling at the star's feet, and are entirely off topic doing so. I can't speak for any of the greats, but I imagine they get a little tired of it. I'm sure they enjoy fans, but perhaps they would like to just post on here and just be "one of the guys". They know, If they dare post, they are likely to get "mobbed" by fans.

Also, I've read posts where some folks talk about their favorite Great, as if the Greats can't hear them or won't see the comments on the forum. To me, that's disrespectful. Also how about those who say, "well I'm not so and so, but he would----" and they answer FOR the Great being talked about. So now the Great probably has to fix this guy's comment, because the guy doesn't have a clue anyways. That's more disrespect. (But, I'm not talking about a few that are SUPPOSED to act and represent the Great in question) I've seen some post, that even sound gossipy. Who wants that, especially if you are one of the Greats? If some posters would quit acting like a tabloid, the greats might be more willing to join in. Can you blame them for getting scarce? That's just my viewpoint, and that's all it is, is a viewpoint.

Ron Scott · Post by **Ron Scott** » 31 Oct 2005 7:04 am

My 2 cents worth is that people do feel safer talking on line and out of site just like people in cars feel safe blower their horn at someone who goes too slow or pulls out in traffic in front of them. Being kind to each other is sure a better feeling than being rude...RS

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Franklin Guitars

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 31 Oct 2005 7:15 am

The internet style of info sharing on forums and such is pretty cut and dried. In many cases you really don't know the folks your conversing with. You don't know if they are experienced in music, the music biz or what. Lot's of times I have seen posts from VERY experienced players littered with mindless replies. I have come to expect this from folks and not be bothered by it. You put out info that you know is right and you have personal experience with. If others want to get into a food fight over it then who cares.

I see a lot of crap on internet forums. I know that some of it is from people who are not very good players and who use the music forums on the net as a substitute for that. You know--"if I can't get any satisfaction from my playing, then I can spew forth on a forum and that will be my link". After all, nobody will ever know who I really am and the credentials I don't have to back up my statements.

The early days of the music forums were much better. The heavy hitters came on and posted frequently. Pretty soon with the proliferation of the net, all the three chord wannabes that you put up with in music stores come on the scene and the general US public school mentality of social behavior followed. The heavy guys don't want to be bothered with it.

I love a good debate of any issue that I know about and can contribute to. Does not matter if I agree or not, the result should be solid info sharing.

You have to wade through a lot of crap sometimes on forums to get to the good info. Just keep on a good set of internet "sewer boots" and forge ahead.

John Ummel · Post by **John Ummel** » 31 Oct 2005 8:06 am

Sometimes I see a new topic come up and it seems like an interesting thread. Then as I read through the posts I see it has turned into one more time where a couple of guys start going for each others' throats. Its kind of entertaining I guess (in a sadistic sort of way) but I usually decide not to get involved. I'm here to learn more about steel guitar related things and to help someone if I can. I have no desire to malign someone or be maligned.

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 31 Oct 2005 8:30 am

"Maybe if people were happier within themselves there wouldn't be so much unhappiness shown in public forums."

On the target.

We tend to think we're special because we play steel. Oh, my. Holier than thou? This forum can be just as petty as any forum out there in our age range. I, like some, stick around because of the insane amount of expertise that is generously supplied. When I read jerk remarks/responses, they're just constant reminders I am on the planet earth, not in utopia. And I don't want to be the pot calling the kettle black -- I know I've said stupid/insulting things after a few too many beers late at night.

Burp.

Al