Is this what PSG sounds like at concerts now?!

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 28 Jun 2005 3:17 pm

.....or does NOT sound like......

I went up to the Quad cities in Ill. for some family stuff and was invited to see a Clint Black concert at the Mark in Moline. Been a LONG time since I as a working musician got to go to a large venue concert. We were invited to one of the box things where you can enjoy the concert inside or just step out onto a private balcony for a full frontal assult.

I was amazed at how overall poor the sound was, and will keep my sound comment directed to the poor steel guitarist whoever he was. I never heard ONE note he played all night long. Everything was just a huge wash of low end rumble with a vocal on top of it.

Is this the norm for the audio battle that pedal players fight in these large concert venue situations???? This must be pretty frustrating for these fellows to try to go up against a roaring set of drums and elec. bass and a couple of ear splitting Teles every show.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 28 Jun 2005 3:33 pm

Generally Jeff Peterson plays with Clint, last time I saw him he told me he was a permanent member of the this band and had been for several years. He is shown on Clints website as well.

We did get a chance to see this band last year in Nashville at a show taping. It is clear that the show is totally focused on Clints vocals (rightfully so ) his Guitar playing, Haydons Guitar playing and a bit of Monty's Fiddle playing. Although there was some Steel in the mix it was hard to find. What we did hear though was well played by Geoff.

Don't get me wrong, Clint put on an excellent show but if you are going in the hopes of hearing a ton of Steel licks..NADA..

You will hear pretty much just is what is on Clints records.

t

PS..I corrected the spelling of Jeffs name...[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 29 June 2005 at 01:02 AM.]

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 28 Jun 2005 5:22 pm

thanks for the heads up...i'll make sure i don't attend one of his concerts if it comes this way. A steel in the band and they don't feature him? ain't gonna git my 50 bucks!

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Whitney Single 12 8FL & 5 KN,keyless, dual changers Extended C6th, Webb Amp, Line6 PodXT, Goodrich Curly Chalker Volume Pedal, Match Bro, BJS Bar..I was keyless....when keyless wasn't cool....

Leon Eneboe · Post by **Leon Eneboe** » 28 Jun 2005 5:38 pm

No..all "big" productions do no sound bad (although some do). I refer you to the Sound Stage presentation of "George Jones, 50 years of hits". Every lead instrument comes through loud and clear, and of course this includes the pedal steel work of Paul Franklin, and one or two that I did not know. I bought the 2-DVD set of this, and everytime I look at it I really enjoy it. But...of course, there are times when I could see the PSG man playing but the sound was so low that it was almost lost in the shuffle. Anyway....if you want a treat, the George Jones 50 years of hits presentation is TOPS. Leon Eneboe

Post by **Joey Ace** » 28 Jun 2005 5:51 pm

In the past 6 months I have attended two large concerts- Brad Paisley and Vince Gill. The sound was mixed great and the Steel was well represented.

I suspect you hit a bad night.

BTW, Jeff Peterson is the correct spelling of Clint's Steeler. [This message was edited by Joey Ace on 28 June 2005 at 06:52 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 28 Jun 2005 7:21 pm

Or very possibly a bad place in the room.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Jun 2005 7:33 pm

Most really "big" concerts I've been to sound really bad. Only when I've been lucky enough to be in the first few rows have I heard a nearly good sound. These concerts that have huge audiences (like over 3,000), spread out over acres of...whatever, are a nightmare of echo, delayed echo, and muffled echo, with just enough ambient noise to drown out the last vestiges of vocal intelligibility and musical fidelity. You just can't get good sound out over a real large area, and it's hopeless to try.

Of course, most people go there for the "experience" anyway, not the music.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 28 Jun 2005 8:14 pm

If Jeff Peterson could not be heard, that is a shame because he is a FINE steel guitar player. It has always appeared to me that Clint had him up front and featured him quite a bit like he really appreciated him, as he should. It must have just been a bad night for the sound crew.
Jerry

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 28 Jun 2005 8:36 pm

Mr. Peterson indeed was the steeler. He sat in the back on a riser.

In as much as a bad place in the venue--I could hear plenty of Teles cutting and lot's of vocal. The fiddle was plenty hot also. The steel was just buried in the mix.

Hopefully this was not the norm but just an off night soundwise. Too bad.

The player that stole the show was the pianist. Wonderful sound on acoustic and when Black went back to play drums on a song, they did "Josie" by Steely Dan and the keyboardist sang it. His solos and such were VERY nice. The PSG might as well not have been there. Not heard at all.

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 28 Jun 2005 10:47 pm

I can't agree that good sound is impossible in large venues.
With a backline and a couple of primitive stacks, yes it is.
With a modern rig, with parabolic arrays of phase corrected speakers, the sound will be better than your own lounge in a reasonably shaped 5000 seater auditorium.
If the sound is bad, it's either poor equipment, poor sound engineering or poor architecture.

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Cheers!
Dave

[This message was edited by Dave Boothroyd on 28 June 2005 at 11:48 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 29 Jun 2005 1:24 am

Well it is a shame that they mixed him out,
but heck at least he IS employed playing steel.
A few licks mixed up sometimes is better than no pay and no licks.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 29 Jun 2005 3:48 am

You should hear them in a small room.
I met his band (tuned the piano and came back to do chair massage on them) at One World Theater in Austin. The piano player is a fine and funny guy, and Black plays pretty good drums on Josie.
Big halls are kind of a shame. I don't know what kind of experience you get from not hearing the music.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 29 Jun 2005 5:45 am

I agree not all "Big Acts" sound bad. Maybe, the sound man had a bad night bringing up the steel.

Leon,
How do I order George Jones DVD?
I want that!

Theresa

Charley Adair · Post by **Charley Adair** » 29 Jun 2005 6:14 am

I did a thread on this subject about Mark Chessnut's show in San Antonio. Bad, bad mix. Great if you're a drummer. There were some good comments from other forumites. Chaeck it out.

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Sho-Bud PRO-I, 4&5

David Spires · Post by **David Spires** » 29 Jun 2005 7:35 am

It certainly is the job of each musician to give the sound man a tone that works well in the context of the band, but at the large venue level - the sound man certainly controls the mix.

Let me say that I have heard Jeff recently at a Clint Black concert, and he sounded great. A sound man can have a bad night, just like anyone else.

I have to brag on our sound man, Kevin Brown. He was with Mark Wills for several years before taking on Jo Dee's gig. He's the best I have had an opportunity to work with. You actually hear all the parts going on in the mix, but there are nights where something disappears... He and I talk all the time about ways to improve what I give him, and we listen to each show so we know what adjustments to make.

Being a great sound man is just as hard as trying to become a great musician. Chances are someone was having a bad night, or maybe they aren't as lucky as I feel with Kevin!

David Spires

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 29 Jun 2005 7:56 am

I can't tell you how many times I have played various sized venues and other musicians will come up and say they either could not hear me or I was just barely in the mix even though I believe I am playing at a good stage volume.It's a never ending battle.

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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.[This message was edited by Dick Wood on 29 June 2005 at 08:57 AM.][This message was edited by Dick Wood on 29 June 2005 at 08:58 AM.]

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 29 Jun 2005 8:44 am

The short answer is, yes.

I got to see Clint from the 2nd row when he had about 2 or 3 CD's and was just becoming a big name; big enough that Hag was on the same bill and Clint was the closer. Boy did they crank out the sound that night, including--no, featuring-- Jeff on steel. This would have been early 90's and Clint didn't have but about 3 albums. Coincidentally, I only have his first 3 CD's because of what has transpired with his music, as well as that of others, since that time. Check out his earliest CD's; Killin' Time, Put Yourself in My Shoes, The Hard Way.

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HagFan

Chris Spencer · Post by **Chris Spencer** » 29 Jun 2005 10:06 am

Most of the large arena shows I've seen have not sounded good. The mix was very heavy on the low end. I did see Alan Jackson at the new FedEx Forum and it sounded better than shows I've seen at the Pyramid. I did see Clint at the Horseshoe Casino in Tunica a few years back and the sound was excellent. I guess it just depends but the smaller venues seem to be better to me.

Chris Spencer · Post by **Chris Spencer** » 29 Jun 2005 10:10 am

Oh, if you do see Clint Black check out Brandon Apple now on fiddle, a local Memphis boy orginally from Batesville, Ar.

Alan Shank · Post by **Alan Shank** » 29 Jun 2005 10:25 am

"This would have been early 90's and Clint didn't have but about 3 albums. Coincidentally, I only have his first 3 CD's because of what has transpired with his music, as well as that of others, since that time. Check out his earliest CD's; Killin' Time, Put Yourself in My Shoes, The Hard Way."

I agree, 100%. His first 3 were just outstanding, from the excellent Black-original songs, to the singing, to the musicians. After that, he seemed to lose his way. I saw him live sometime around the second album, and it was a great show.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 29 Jun 2005 10:46 am

His first 3 were just outstanding, from the excellent Black-original songs, to the singing, to the musicians. After that, he seemed to lose his way.

When did he get married?

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 29 Jun 2005 3:41 pm

Earnest, funny. October 20, 1991. Then had a kid May 8, 2001 ...[This message was edited by Barry Blackwood on 02 July 2005 at 06:28 AM.]

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 29 Jun 2005 3:45 pm

That IS funny!

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http://home.comcast.net/~stevehinson

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 29 Jun 2005 4:19 pm

YEAH, and didn't Bob Dylan cover the inbound ships? You know, the ships that actually sailed somewhere. As in, "WHEN THE SHIPS COME"; as opposed to "WHEN MY SHIP COMES IN".

Funny about language that way. A possessive pronoun can really change things.

One song, an epic statement. The other, a shot, and a miss, in the dark.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 29 Jun 2005 5:24 pm

and Bob Dylan has been singing live since the early 60's..

Did HE got married the day after his first gig ?

t