What did Lloyd play before ShoBud?

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 7 Jun 2005 7:31 am

I've been listening to some old Paycheck stuff lately. Did Lloyd use a Fender on the real early stuff? The steel on the first few tunes had a thin sound.

Thanks-DZ

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 7 Jun 2005 7:58 am

It was a Sho-bud. Lloyd only played Sho-bud pedal Steel; except for the breif experience with JCH.
Ricky

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 7 Jun 2005 8:12 am

Thanks Ricky. I guess the difference I was hearing was recording techniques, amp, speakers, eq, etc.

Great stuff on those Little Darlin' Paycheck recordings.

DZ

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 7 Jun 2005 8:23 am

Boy! That question really through a scare into me. I'm glad to see the answer and can stop fearing the end of the world.

It's hard to imagine an LDG model of any other brand.

(Actually, I was surprised to learn the answer).

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HagFan

Jay Jessup · Post by **Jay Jessup** » 7 Jun 2005 8:30 am

Dave,
Check the liner notes for that CD again, If I am not mistaken the first couple of tunes on the Paycheck CD were recorded in NYC with whoever was available at the time, not Lloyd, and I agree that it sure does have that Fender PSG sound.

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 7 Jun 2005 8:49 am

I think Lloyd played a Bigsby D-8 on his 1964 album "The Big Steel Guitar" (six pedals, one knee lever), from then on it was Sho-Bud.

Please refer to the website www.lloydgreentribute.com - on the photo page you'll find some interesting photos and comments about the change from the doubleneck to the first LDG model.

Kind Regards, Walter

www.lloydgreentribute.com
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

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Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 7 Jun 2005 8:52 am

Au contraire, mon ami Ricky.

I have a video of Lloyd playing a Bigsby with Faron Young.

I don't think Lloyd owned the Bigsby, though. I think Faron owned it. But you can check with the Man.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 07 June 2005 at 09:52 AM.]

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 7 Jun 2005 8:54 am

Dave, if you are referring to the Koch release about the very early Paycheck stuff, that's in fact not Lloyd playing - these recordings were made around 1960-1962, mostly demo recordings. They were done before Aubrey Mayhew founded the Little Darlin' label. He bought the tapes, that's why they show up in the LD catalog.

Kind Regards, Walter

www.lloydgreentribute.com
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

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Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 7 Jun 2005 9:13 am

Thanks for the info guys. I don't have any liner notes or titles, etc.

so forgive me for my ignorance.

I was given a "working" copy of the disc to learn some tunes for a new band I'll be playing with. All they told me was "Paycheck & Lloyd Green,"
and the tracks to learn, of course.

I 've actually played "Pardon Me I Have Someone to Kill" in another band.

Thanks again, DZ

DZ

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 7 Jun 2005 9:37 am

Ok also a Bigsby Pedal Steel...ha....and Lloyd also had various non-pedal steels and Resonator steel guitars. What your hearing on the early Paycheck Stuff("Real Mr. Heartache"-Little Darlin recordings) is a Sho-bud Fingertip Pedal Steel.
Ricky

Steve Waltz · Post by **Steve Waltz** » 7 Jun 2005 1:59 pm

I think the liner notes say that A-11 and the other of the first three on that little darlin' stuff was done by whomever was playing for George Jones at that time. I think it says that George Jones was in NYC and Johhny used his band for the recoding and decided on the day of the recording to do A-11 after hearing Buck do it.

Dave, I'll bring you my copy of that Cd so you can read it if you like.

Steve

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 7 Jun 2005 2:04 pm

Thanks Steve. See you Monday. Rehearsal souded good last night.

DZ

Post by **Joey Ace** » 7 Jun 2005 5:56 pm

I didn't even know Lloyd Maines plays a Bud!

Seriously, I asked LG to comment on this, for historical accuracy. Here's the reply:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Gosh, this is the first thread I've read where virtually everything stated
about me or my equipment is accurate.
First, Dave Zirbel is right. The steel is thin on those early Paycheck
recordings, mine more so than the A-11 steeler for George Jones in that era,
Sonny Curtis.
Ricky Davis is correct about the Paycheck Little Darlin' recordings. All
were cut with my finger-tip Sho-Bud. The JCH was used only during my last
year of recording in 1988, with Skaggs, Nanci Griffith, Dolly Parton, Lorrie
Morgan and "many others".
Ron Page. I'm glad I didn't precipitate a coronary. However, the LDG model
and all it's copiers didn't exist until 1973.
Jay Jessup. Again, correct. Those first few tunes were cut in NYC with the
Jones band and Sonny Curtis was on steel. I have no idea what kind of steel
he had.
Walter Stettner who knows more about me than my mother did is right about
the Bigsby D-8 used during my first 9 months of recording in 1964.
Herb Steiner's facts are maddeningly correct, as usual. During my almost 2
years with Faron Young I played a 3 neck Bigsby. It had one damn pedal and
weighed 105 lbs. in the case! But I was 19 so it didn't matter. Faron had
bought the Bigsby for my predecessor, Joe Vincent who played it on, "I Miss
You Already." Faron insisted I return the steel when I left the band.
Reluctantly.......I did."

Lloyd Green <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Al Udeen · Post by **Al Udeen** » 7 Jun 2005 9:08 pm

I recall Lloyd playimg a double neck Rickenbacker with a Shot Jackson pedal at the Opry when I was in Nashville to order, what turned out to be the 3rd double neck Sho-Bud at Shots garage in 1957, Buddy Emmons got me in the Opry Backstage that night when he was with Ernest Tubb, I believe Lloyd was with Faron, au

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 7 Jun 2005 10:46 pm

This should be the Bigsby Lloyd played with Faron: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/004244.html

David Turner · Post by **David Turner** » 8 Jun 2005 4:23 am

I wonder how much influence Buddy Emmons had (or maybe it's vice-versa) on Lloyd Green's playing style.

LG's playing seems to imulate BE a little bit, particularly on some of the Little Darlin' Johnny Paycheck tunes.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 8 Jun 2005 8:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>LG's playing seems to imulate BE a little bit, particularly on some of the Little Darlin' Johnny Paycheck tunes.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't hear any immulation of anything but Lloyd Green Style. Lloyd has and will always have a style of his own as he is one of the top inovators of the pedal steel to ever have been recorded. I can always tell when it's Lloyd Green playing; as it is always very brilliantly laid out and fits every song/style within it's dynamics; and is usually something I would never imagined I would/could play.
Lloyd Green's influence; is his great natural talent and imagination to see the actual flavor of a cake; and always put the most perfect Icing on it.
Ricky[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 08 June 2005 at 09:50 AM.]

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 8 Jun 2005 9:14 am

Ricky, you said it! Lloyd has always been (and hopefully will continue to be for a long time to come!) fresh and original. His playing on the Little Darlin' recordings was full of new ideas and unheard sounds at the time.

Kind Regards, Walter

www.lloydgreentribute.com
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

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Ray Rasmussen · Post by **Ray Rasmussen** » 8 Jun 2005 10:44 am

Hey Dave, Whats the name of the new band, and should we expect to see you playing around Sonoma County?

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 8 Jun 2005 10:54 am

Johnny Dilks & His Visitation Valley Boys

I'm taking over for Lee Jeffries who has other priorities right now. Dave Gleason will be on the Telecaster and another forumite, Steve Walz on bass. Johnny is going for a late 1960s Bakersfield sound these days. A great reason to drag out the old D-10 ZB. We have a show coming up in Penngrove at the Black Cat. Check the site for details.

Thanks for asking

DZ[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 08 June 2005 at 11:56 AM.]

Robbie Bossert · Post by **Robbie Bossert** » 8 Jun 2005 11:03 am

Check out Lloyd's playing on Robbie Fulks' new disc "Georgia Hard". Absolutely brilliant as usual. He's a damn fine dobro player as well. Lloyd, as well as Redd Volkert can be heard on the Johnny Paycheck Tribute Disc that was produced by Mr. Fulks. Great pickin' all the way around. Go directly to Robbie's homepage for more info.

Robbie Bossert

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 8 Jun 2005 11:16 am

The adress is www.robbiefulks.com

Kind Regards, Walter

www.lloydgreentribute.com
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

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Ben Rubright · Post by **Ben Rubright** » 9 Jun 2005 7:49 pm

Is it really true that Joe Vincent played steel on Faron's 50's recording of "I miss you already"? I would have bet that "Sweet Dreams", "I Miss You Already", "I'll be Satisfied With Love", "Everytime I'm Kissing You" were all by the same person....namely Buddy Emmons.

Tommy White · Post by **Tommy White** » 10 Jun 2005 12:34 am

Anyone who has ever sat behind a pedal steel guitar after Buddy Emmons, was, has and is still influenced by Buddy Emmons, whether they know it or not.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 10 Jun 2005 5:49 am

And probably everyone who raises their E's to F have probably been influenced by Lloyd Green.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording