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Topic: What do you ask for in your wedge? |
Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 4 May 2005 12:10 pm |
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I am a novice in playing with real sound systems. When the sound guy asked me what I wanted in my wedge I didn't have a clue. I said oh, I dunno, just a little of the guitar since I usually can't hear him too well.
I played the whole night without any steel in my monitor which is ok because I could monitor myself fine from my amp but I had absolutely no idea where I sat in the mix.
Would it be practical and reasonable to ask for something close to the house mix in my monitor? I'd much rather feel like I was playing with the whole band than feel like an individual component, leaving the 'product assembly' to the sound man. I felt a bit off kilter the whole show.
I'm needing some words of experience here. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 4 May 2005 12:24 pm
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Jon,
I tend to not want anything in my monitor. I keep my part of the stage as quiet as possible. Its easyer for me that way. Depends on the band though. I never worry about getting a good stage mix. Good enough is fine for me. The stage mix has little to do with the house mix so I don't waste time on it. If there is some idiot in the band that plays out of balance with the rest of the group and starts the monitor wars then you are screwed for the night.
One trick is instead of asking for something to be turned up figure out what is masking the sound you want to hear and have that turned down.
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Bob
intonation help
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Emmett Roch
From:
Texas Hill Country
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Posted 4 May 2005 12:25 pm
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Here in Europe, often as not I don't even have an amp at a gig, but 99% of the sound guys I've been at the mercy of have been totally into giving the pickers onstage what they want to hear. My thang is steel-into-volume-pedal-into-Dan-Echo and let the stage manager do whatever he wants with the "out" jack.
When I DO have an amp, I position it behind me and ask for some steel in my monitor, so I don't have to max out the amp's volume. Then I ask to hear my vocals, and varying amounts of the vocals of everyone I'll be harmonizing with.
So far, I've never needed to ask for drums, bass, fiddle, keyboards or lead guitar in my monitor, since they're normally loud enough onstage as it is. |
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Ron !
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Posted 4 May 2005 12:26 pm
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A couple of years back somebody said to me,turn your amp volume down and start listening to your steel playing through the monitors.So I did turn my volume down.I could still hear myself through the amp but I started listening through the monitor speakers and it improved my playing.Most of the times a sound man comes up to me and asks what I want in my monitors.I always say a little drums...lots of bass....and some rythmguitar.And a little vocal.
Ron
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Nikaro Steel Guitars
Nikaro SD10 4x6-Nikaro SD10 4x5-2Peavey 112 Ultra Tube.
nikarosteelguitars@planet.nl
European Steel Guitar Forum
[This message was edited by Ronald Steenwijk on 04 May 2005 at 01:31 PM.] |
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David Spires
From:
Millersport, OH
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Posted 4 May 2005 12:34 pm
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Jon,
If you are playing in a situation where everything is mic'ed, and have a sound man - my opinion is that you are completely at his mercy anyway!
The monitor is for you to hear what you want or what you need. For me, I like a blend of everything, but - less background vocals (tend to make intonation difficult if they are pitchy), none of "me" if I am using an amp, more hi-hat for timing, and I love to have more acoustic rhythm - if the player is good!
It's just a mix to make you comfortable to play. If I can't hear the instruments on the opposite side of the stage, I'll ask for more of them - etc. However, the more you ask for, the louder it all gets and everything turns to mush. That is why I have grown to become spoiled with in-ear monitors...
As far as "helping" the sound man with my sound - I try to be very aware of my volume for pads, fills, signature licks, and solos. By doing this, and "being quiet when I have nothing to say", the soundman should be able to hear my intent and place it properly.
I have grown to respect the hard work that good sound men/women do. I don't know if any of that helps, but it's my take on it.
Good luck,
David Spires
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Steel Guitarist for Jo Dee Messina: Carter D-10 8&7 / MSA Classic D-10 8&5; Line 6 Pod XT; Jagwire Artist Series Strings; Walker Professional Players' Chair; Peterson VS-II Tuner; Goodrich Matchbro & LDR Pedal; and BJS Bars |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 4 May 2005 12:40 pm
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"More talent in the monitors, please!"
Seriously - I want the singer in the mix. I can usually hear enough of my fellow-musicians, but my job is to complement the vocal.
RR |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 4 May 2005 12:41 pm
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| Lead vocal only, most of the time I hear just enough of everything else. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 4 May 2005 12:43 pm
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| I have my own monitor mix because I play two fretless instruments. I sing also. So I have steel, fiddle, and my vocals in the monitor. I agree with Bon Hffnar in that the quieter it is the more easier to play. Also with Ronald about more steel in the monitor than in the amp. If there is just one monitor mix for the whole band I refuse a monitor completely most of the time. |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 4 May 2005 1:17 pm
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For me, it depends on whether we´re playing inside or outdoors, the size of the stage & how spread-out the band is, and the band itself.
The last band I played with regularly, I could hear the rhythm guitarist´s monitor very well since he was usually just to my right, and then I told them I didn´t need my own monitor. If it was already set-up, sometimes I turned it away from me. If it was setup so that I could have my own mix, I told them what I needed.
When there was one in front of me already (and I was stuck with it), I usually would have the keyboard and 2nd guitar (same guy doubled and was at the opposite end of the stage from me) in my monitor and then just a bit of everyone else, and their levels in my monitor depended on how loud their stage volume was.
We had a LOUD drummer, didn't need any of him, rhythm guitar was right beside me so didn't need him in it either.
I NEVER want my steel or guitar in my monitor, because it sounds like %@&! in the monitors and I can hear myself out of my own amp just fine with a decent tone.
When we did soundcheck, if I needed to hear something and couldn't, I'd ask the soundman to bring it up a little. If something was too loud, I'd ask him to take it down, simple as that.
Overall, I don't like a monitor blaring me in the face and only use it to hear what I need to hear, mainly the other guitar player or keyboards on the far side of the stage, with just a bit of everything else, usually excepting the drums.
In fact, this same band opened one of Jo Dee's shows on July 12, 2003; the Platt County Fair in Columbus, Nebraska. David probably doesn't remember that since they do so many, but they put on a fine show and of course David played great. We all watched from backstage. I was playing for Lorena Prater and Western Reunion.
[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 04 May 2005 at 02:22 PM.] |
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David Spires
From:
Millersport, OH
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Posted 4 May 2005 1:22 pm
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Hi Jim,
Believe me, I would like to take credit for that performance or show, but I didn't come on board with Jo Dee until May of '04. I believe the '03 tour would have been the forum's own "Boo" Miller.
Thanks a lot though!
David Spires |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 4 May 2005 1:25 pm
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| Ah, my apologies to David and Boo. We didn't have the chance to meet the band so I didn't know who it was. Our boss (Lorena) did meet Jo Dee and said she was very nice. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 04 May 2005 at 02:29 PM.] |
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Ben Slaughter
From:
Madera, California
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Posted 4 May 2005 1:32 pm
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| If I'm in a larger venue or outdoors where I'm dependant on the monitors, I like to start with a "house mix" then subtract or add to taste. I really like to hear the whole thing so I know where my parts should be, in context. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 4 May 2005 1:42 pm
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| Quote: |
| What do you ask for in your wedge? |
Jus' a little talcum powder, thanks...  |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 4 May 2005 1:54 pm
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The judges would also have accepted "hot peppers", "oil & vinegar", or "extra cappicola".
Fantastic and diverse responses. Thank you, all. I have tremendously better understanding of this now. And I welcome more thoughts.
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 4 May 2005 2:15 pm
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| Monitors? You guys get monitors?! |
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Kiyoshi Osawa
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 4 May 2005 3:33 pm
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| LOL! I can't wait to see the looks I'll get when I take my steel out to our first gig in town! |
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Roger Edgington
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 4 May 2005 4:59 pm
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| It depends on the job to me. In a small club I don't like a monitor at all. On a larger stage I typically like to have kick and snare drum, and bass. Everything else(including me) is all ready too loud. I normally sit at an angle at the front corner of the stage and it lets me hear see and react to the other players. We have six in the band. If we had a strong sound man maybe we would do things differently. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 4 May 2005 5:39 pm
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| Quote: |
| One trick is instead of asking for something to be turned up figure out what is masking the sound you want to hear and have that turned down |
This is the all-time secret of successful mixing, whether it is another instrument or just a certain frequency in a given instrument, subtract what is detrimental rather than turning up what is buried.
The quieter the stage is the better everything will sound - the vocal mics don't have as much band bleed and the sound guy can turn up the instrument mics and get a cleaner sound than if they were blasting away full-throttle from the stage.
As for the original question "what to ask for" the answer is whatever you need to hear better to play your part the best and it may change from venue to venue and band to band.
The monitor engineer doesn't have a "house mix" knob, if you ask for it he will have to guestimate one especially for you (without any of the effects that the house guy has) and it will have really nothing to do with the actual "house" mix. Just ask specifically for what you want hear and leave it alone from there.
Remember, some of those sound folk out there are also steelers....
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 Dave Grafe - email: dg@pdxaudio.com
Production
Pickin', etc.
1978 ShoBud Pro I E9, Randall Steel Man 500, 1963 Precision Bass, 1954 Gibson LGO, 1897 Washburn Hawaiian Steel Conversion
[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 04 May 2005 at 06:41 PM.] |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 4 May 2005 6:12 pm
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| Quote: |
| Remember, some of those sound folk out there are also steelers. |
Not enough of them! |
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Hook Moore
From:
South Charleston,West Virginia
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Posted 5 May 2005 3:52 am
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I would have had to ask "whats a wedge"?
Hook
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www.HookMoore.com
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 5 May 2005 6:26 am
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| It's for shots into the green - 100 yards or less.... |
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Ben Slaughter
From:
Madera, California
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Posted 5 May 2005 8:29 am
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| "Wedge" is slang for floor monitor, which are generally shaped like a, wedge. "House Mix" is my slang for I'd like to hear a bit of everything. |
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Nate LaPointe
From:
Los Angeles, California, USA
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Posted 5 May 2005 12:07 pm
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When playing an average size club, I prefer to just have my own vocal and some of the other vocalists in my monitor so we can blend on the harmonies. When playing a large stage like at House of Blues, large festivals, etc, I like to hear somthing closer to the house mix but with my own vocal and guitar up just a bit. I guess it kinda depends on the venue, how the system is, and what the acoustics are like in there.
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www.natelapointe.net
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 5 May 2005 1:37 pm
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| ...And whether your monitor engineer is more interested in getting you a great sound or getting himself a stiff drink. |
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Ken Mullett
From:
Bremen, Indiana, USA and Sarasota, FL
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Posted 5 May 2005 2:25 pm
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Jim Cohen, Your sense of humor "cracks" me up!  |
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