Ralph Mooney, what make and model

Jeff Sherman · Post by **Jeff Sherman** » 15 Sep 2004 8:43 pm

Hello All,
I am new to this forum. . I will be asking alot of questions regarding alot of "who played what" since i can only identify what steel guitar sound I am trying to identify and may eventually be looking to find ( many of these guitars may no longer be available )on this forum so will start with my first question:

What make and model of steel gutiar did Ralph Mooney used on the recordings on the "Waylon Live" album and on the 1976 record of Waylons " Are you ready for the country " ??

I did own a Sho-Bud LDG model for a short while but it just didnt seem to have the sound I was looking for. This model seem to have less sustain and more of a deeper sound than the Sho-Buds I remember listening to before.

Jeff

Gregg Thacker · Post by **Gregg Thacker** » 15 Sep 2004 8:56 pm

Hey there Jeff. Welcome to this great informative and edcational Forum. I am new myself in two respects. I am new to the Forum like you and am a beginner to the Steel Guitar(since March of this year). I am just guessing about the question about wandering which Steel Ralph played on a couple of Waylon's Albums. Ralph may have been playng on a Mullen or Sierra D-10. I have an early photo of Ralph in an Antique Steel Guitar Course book written by Winnie Winston back in the early '70's and in that photo, Ralph was playing a Sho-Bud D10. It could have been that as well. Hopefully someone will be able to guide you in the right direction.

Gregg

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If it don't have a Steel, it ain't real!

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 16 Sep 2004 1:49 am

Gregg says:

"I have an early photo of Ralph in an Antique Steel Guitar Course book written by Winnie Winston back in the early '70's..."

Antique? Gad... you know how to make a guy feel old!
Although some of the addresses are out of date or long gone, most of it is still useful, and the book is STILL in print.

When I saw Ralph in 1976, he was playing a red Sho-Bud. His back neck was his E9-- so he could have the five pedals on it.
The front neck was tuned like a dobro.

Winnie

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 16 Sep 2004 5:08 am

Ralph is currently playing a D-10 GFI made by Gene Fields in Texas. He still puts his E9 (without the chromatic strings) on the inside neck like before. If I remember right, Ralph had his ShoBud pickups wound to different specs to approximate his old Fender 1000 sound....JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 16 September 2004 at 06:09 AM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 16 Sep 2004 10:43 am

Yes, I built the Sho-Bud used by Ralph on this recording. Waylon called one day and said he wanted a new guitar for Ralph for a surprise present (I don't recall the occasion). Being a Sho-Bud dealer, I called the Sho-Bud factory with Ralph's requirements and they said they would rather not build one that weird. So I bought the body and parts from Sho-Bud and built the guitar myself. Ralph used it until he went to GFI.
It was just a simple black Super-Pro with one knee lever ( RKR) and a full "G" major tuning on the outside neck, and a basic "E" major tuning on the inside neck,(high G#). My name appears,stamped underneath in 1/8th letters as the builder. Waylon and Ralph were very nice customers and friends.
The bottom of the guitar was very simple looking, I think Ralph knows a secret or two!!!!
bobbe

Gregg Thacker · Post by **Gregg Thacker** » 16 Sep 2004 12:14 pm

Winnie...I did'nt mean to insult ya HA! I think that a book that old(original version)is indeed an antique and has sentimental value. I even had the Big E., John Hughey, Tom Brumley, and Ralph Mooney autograph my copy at the recent Steel Guitar SHow in Dallas this past march. I also bought my Steel Guitar there. I still need to get Lloyd Green's, Hal Rugg's and your autographs. Hope you guy's will be at the Dallas show in 2005. SUre would like to meet you all. When the Steelers mentioned above autographed my book, they told me that those pictures brought back memories.

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If it don't have a Steel, it ain't real!

Joe Yednasty · Post by **Joe Yednasty** » 16 Sep 2004 5:17 pm

I was going to say that I think it was a ShoBud that Ralph Mooney was playing on that great Waylon Live album. If you look at the little booklet in the album cover they have pictures and one of them has "Moon" sitting behind a ShoBud D-10. As far as his playing goes.......you could put him behind any steel guitar and be blown away. Nice talkin about Ralph Mooney and that Waylon Live album though, it can never get enough attention.

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"Eskimo" Joe Yednasty
Emmons P/P S-10
Peavey Session 500

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 16 Sep 2004 5:30 pm

What is the steel that is seen on the cover of the "Honky Tonk Heroes" album? (in the picture with Waylon, Billy Joe Shaver, Moon and the rest of the guys? ) If I'm not mistaken, that would have been before the Super Pro that Bobbe spoke of. Anyone know?

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 16 Sep 2004 7:38 pm

I think that's a Marlen on Honkey Tonk Heros.

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Dave Zirbel-
Sho-Bud Super Pro, 8 x 5, ZB Custom D-10 8 x 5, Dobro Cyclops reissue, 1967 Fender Telecaster, Webb 6-14E, Fender Super Reverb
The Mother Truckers

Jeff Sherman · Post by **Jeff Sherman** » 16 Sep 2004 8:57 pm

Hello Bobbe and others,
Thanks for the reply. Its sure a nice sounding guitar.

It seems that some Sho-Buds have more sustain and slightly different tone than others. How does the Super Pro compare in sound to older versions of Sho-Buds ??

Jeff

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 17 Sep 2004 7:43 am

They are all wonderful, if controlled correctly. I personally prefer the aluminum neck Sho-Buds, but this is not to say the wood necks aren't incredible. The differences in the tone of some guitars are a good thing. They are all consistently good, just different. Remember, there are many different kinds of Sho-Buds, many built differently from others. To put them all in the same category is not a very correct thing to do. There are too many differences in the many models. However, as I said, most are great sounding. My favorite? A ProIII with George L. 10-I pickups. Hard to beat, in my humble opinion.

bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 17 September 2004 at 08:45 AM.]

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 19 Sep 2004 10:12 am

Bobbe,
the recordings that Jeff referred to were made in 1974 (Waylon Live) and 1976. Are you sure there were Super Pro´s that early or are you talking about some years later maybe? I am pretty sure that Ralph used a Pro-II Custom in the mid to late ´70s (as seen in the "Lost Outlaw" video and on the picture in the booklet of "Waylon Live-Expanded Edition) and a Professional before that. I also know that the pickups were not the standard ShoBud pickups but custom wound to the same specs as Fender pickups, which might partly explain the unique sound that he got. Of course, most of it was Ralph´s hands and personality.

Regards, Joe H.

Jeff Sherman · Post by **Jeff Sherman** » 19 Sep 2004 10:01 pm

Is there any difference in the sound between a wooden neck and a aluminum neck ??

I see someone is selling a Fender 1000 right now on the forum.

Jeff

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 20 Sep 2004 5:37 am

Jeff, as a general rule (yes, there are exceptions to every rule) wood necks give a warmer sound and the metal with give you a brighter sound. I speak from personal experience.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 20 Sep 2004 8:15 am

Antique Steel Guitar Course

I bought my copy in 1977 brand new. Omigawd...

Last week at the Machine Tool Show in Chicago I learned that the Bridgeport Series One CNC Machine I bought brand spankin' new in 1982 is obsolete and parts are no longer available. Now I feel old. Heck, even the Bridgeport Company doesn't exist anymore. Any new Bridgeports are actually being built by Hardinge.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 20 Sep 2004 8:20 am

Joe Henry; you are correct, you know your history well.
Ricky

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Sep 2004 2:20 pm

Jeff, from the responses here, you can see that Ralph played many makes of steels. Personally, I attribute most of his "trademark" sound to his particular playing technique, and not to the brand of guitar he used. However, his amp (and how he sets it) probably also contributes, somewhat, to his particular sound and tone. Now, many steelers out there may insist that the brand of guitar is the significant component, but if that were true, there would be several thousand players out there that would sound just like Ralph, or Buddy, or whoever. Sadly, this is not the case.

You can't "buy" the sound, you have to make it.

Gabriel Aaron Wynne · Post by **Gabriel Aaron Wynne** » 20 Sep 2004 2:48 pm

Yes, most of the "sound" you get comes from the actual player, however, I heard Ralph on Dale Watson's new album and his tone is significantly different from the 70's recordings with Waylon. To me, the tone sounded pretty modern.
I've often been interested in achieving that vintage sound . . . the sound similar to that of Mooney, Sneeky Pete, and such in the late 60's and 70's. There's a perfect example of this tone on "I'll go back to her" found on Ricky's tab/MP3 site under 1976. http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html
I wonder what kind of amp he was using. A good pickup and amp combination is more critical to tone than what your necks are made of or what make of guitar you might play. . .
I heard that some old players used to use amps that had 4 10s. . . that could be a contributing factor. . .

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aaron

John Hensch · Post by **John Hensch** » 7 Oct 2004 6:45 pm

Hi Jeff
My name is John and I'm new to the forum as well. I was the sound man for Waylon for five years. If you are asking about the Austin recordings, Moon was using his Sho~Bud. I can't remember the model. He was using a Fender Super Reverb amp with a JBL D130 15" speaker. RCA record didn't have much intrest in doing a live album at the time. They sent down a truck fron NYC. It had an old API audio recording console and a 24 track recorder. They ddn't make large effort to mic up everything. They took a split from the PA Mics and added a few drum mics and some audeince mics. All the amps were taken direct to the console thru some direct boxes that I had made for use with our PA System. These custom DI boxes pluged into the speaker jax in the back of the amp. They didn't load the Amp.They were so sensitive that we could tell when a speaker voice coil was starting to go bad. I wish I had the transformers that I used to build them, today. I could make some beer money if I did. I sill have one of these DI's in my bag of tricks.That is why the soundon that recording is different from what you hear today. Most recording enginers don't want the sound of the amp with the gain noise from the tubes.
But I found that the sound as very bright and tight with the use of directs. We did a little hi end EQ to help reduce the hiss from the amp. I thought that the sound we got from the directs was worth the noise trade off.
If you would like more information, you can give me a call at 323-491-1911 and I will try to address your questions. By the way it was "The Red Sho~Bud". I can ask Moon the next time I see him about the model numbers.
john

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Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 7 Oct 2004 6:58 pm

Shobud...would rather not build one that weird.

Oh brother! Like Gretsch guitars were never "weird"...ever see the Bo Diddley model? Padded backs, cattlebrands, double mutes, spaceroller bridges, bright orange finishes... Gretschs used to be considered a pretty wild guitar, and Sho-Bud (owned by Gretsch) was worried about building something slightly different, for Ralph Mooney???

With an attitude like that, it's a wonder Sho-Bud's still in business.....oh wait, they're NOT!

I do love their older steels though. Too bad the corporate brass had their heads up the --- , as usual for corporate fatcats.

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 7 Oct 2004 7:14 pm

Hi John,I enjoyed talking to you at"Steve Harvey"the other day...if that was you who engineered the show,thanks for helping me out!I finally saw the tape last nite...great job...I forgot to tell you that I have been playing some gigs with Richie Albright...I'm Don Helms'sub!Great job on that Waylon album too...I've owned and enjoyed that record in all its forms-from vinyl to the latest expanded version...I think I've bought six different versions...take care-Steve[This message was edited by Steve Hinson on 07 October 2004 at 08:16 PM.]

John Hensch · Post by **John Hensch** » 10 Oct 2004 12:03 pm

They are welcome to come back anytime. Just give me a call anytime you are in the area. 818-822-8653 is my cell phone and it stays on 24/7. I would like to talk with "Old Short Stroke" some time. I would like to give him a call if he has an office phone or someplace to call him at. I found an old cassette tape from the road in 1975. Boy what a trip back in time.
john

John Hensch · Post by **John Hensch** » 10 Oct 2004 12:09 pm

I a'm resending this as part of the message didn't post:
Thakns Steve! My entire staff enjoyed working with you and your people. I wish that all the groups we work with were as nice as you folks. They are welcome to come back anytime. Just give me a call anytime you are in the area. 818-822-8653 is my cell phone and it stays on 24/7. I would like to talk with "Old Short Stroke" some time. I would like to give him a call if he has an office phone or someplace to call him at. I found an old cassette tape from the road in 1975. Boy what a trip back in time.
john