Your band.. dancing,listening,or both.??

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 24 Mar 2004 4:39 am

Let me clarify. Many guys play in "dance bands" for country linedancers. Other guys play in more rock oriented venues.[like me]. Over the years I have found country line dancing crowds to be the most unappreciative crowds of all. ... by FAR. I speak from many years of experience in many venues with many bands. The rock places have folks who dance too of course,but many people are there to listen. I have always found the line dance folks to be more self indulgent,much more interested in thier "expression" than what the hard working musicians on stage are putting forth. I recall many angry moments when line dancers would be furious because we could not play the "latest and greatest" dance number. In NJ where I lived,in the 80's many people would come up the the band and make requests not for songs,but for specific dances. "Thunderfoot" Shoddish"sp?.. We as musicians of course had 3 left feet when it came to dancing and had no idea.. We tried our best and had a GREAT country/country rock band with top notch vocals,excellent fiddle player,big 6 piece sound and yet always struggled even after years on the circuit,because we were not a "dance band"... Even today,with the rock and roll chicks coming to see us and dance to our 60's music, I see it to a cetain extent. They girls want to dance and the boys want to watch them or dance with them. I still,at the age of almost 50,feel like a juke bok. oh well... I dunno,give me the days of a long hair kid pumping his fist in the air in time with the music with his eyes closed listening to every note I layed out. Yes we do get a lot of listeners these days,but most nights we still have to play the exact same songs as the night,week month/ad nauseum]before because "We want to dance"... I'm ready for something different. I will say this however,, all the folks who follow my band these days know us by our first names,have a smile,handshake or hug for us, applaud LOUDLY and often, and are understanding when we can't meet every single request. The old line dance crowd were an arrogant self absorbed bunch of crybabies that would often not applaud at all,and would look at us as if we had the plague becuse we weren't dressed in cowboy hats,boots western shirts, etc. I wonder how you guys perceive any of this when you play out.. bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 24 March 2004 at 04:41 AM.][This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 24 March 2004 at 04:50 AM.]

Pat Dawson · Post by **Pat Dawson** » 24 Mar 2004 6:14 am

Yes, we play for the line dancers. I don't think it matters whether it's the DJ or the band. They just want to strut their stuff. Sometimes I think they work harder than we do. This weekend, at the Cancun Cantina, we play a set, then the DJ takes a full set, then us, then the DJ, etc. At least the ladies look happy and they parade around and around. It's not all bad. They make a fortune there. Just wish our 7 piece band got a little bigger chunk.

BobG · Post by **BobG** » 24 Mar 2004 6:35 am

For the most part the line dancing scene in New Jersey ,as far as live bands goes, is drying up fast.
Most of the clubs nowadays dont even hire bands and just go with a DJ.
Of the two major clubs that did hire bands one (The Whiskey Cafe) has switched to rock .
As far as the advantages and disadvantages.
I like the (2) 45 min. and (2)30 min. breaks we get while the DJ does his thing.
I dislike the lack of applause from the dancers because for the most part they dont consider us much more than a jukebox. (or maybe we're just not good.. but what the hell...be polite and clap anyway).
I also like the money... usually $100 to $120 a night).
I dont like feeling obligated to copy the signature licks and and solos as closed to the recording as possible. I miss the freedom of being able to ad lib.
I'm also tired of playing covers..I mean how many times am I going to have to play "Friends in low places" or "Neon Moon"?
I cant remember the last time I had a chance to jam on stage..
I'd love to get together with different bands for just that reason..

------------------
Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.

[This message was edited by BobG on 24 March 2004 at 06:52 AM.][This message was edited by BobG on 24 March 2004 at 08:08 AM.][This message was edited by BobG on 24 March 2004 at 09:30 AM.][This message was edited by BobG on 24 March 2004 at 09:31 AM.]

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 24 Mar 2004 8:28 am

Good post, Bob! We are a six piece band that plays only old-school (30's - 60's) C&W and western swing songs, mixed with our own compositions in the same style. We play about 40-50% originals and therefore we are not welcome in most country bars. On the few occassions where we have played the country bars, we found the line dancers totally unappreciative of the musicians. No applause and rude demands for the songs they want to hear. I'm pretty sure we don't suck, because over the last ten years we have won numerous awards from major publications in the Denver metro area. We've come to realize that these folks are mostly concerned with their steps and couldn't care less whether it's a DJ or a band, as long as they get to dance to the prescribed formula of dance tunes i.e. "Boot Scootin' Boogie", "Electric Slide", "Cotton-Eyed Joe", et al, none of which we would ever consider playing. This is all fine, it is their scene, and we have simply learned to avoid such employment. We have garnered a following of young folks, who have come to country music through artists such as Johnny Cash, and an older following who come out to listen and dance to the old sounds that they can no longer hear anywhere else. I wouldn't last long playing rote contemorary covers for unappreciative line-dancers.

An interesting parallel was the swing revival several years ago. We hired some horn players, dressed in 40's suits and made a ton of money playing old swing standards. We found the young Lindy Hop dancers in that scene equally self-absorbed and unappreciative. Silence after every song. The only applause was when one of the dancers did an aerial or some other impressive move. Eventually that cash cow dried up and we went back to our first love, good old honky tonk and western swing. I guess the lesson here is play the music closest to your heart and find your audience. My humble $.02.

------------------
Tim Whitlock
'58 Fender 1000, '56 Fender Stringmaster, '65 Twin Reissue, Niomi lap steel, old Magnatone tube amp.

[This message was edited by Tim Whitlock on 24 March 2004 at 08:49 AM.]

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 24 Mar 2004 8:44 am

WE ALWAYS played for appreciative crowds; lots of family orientation; applause after various songs; lots of requests from the crowd.
As the groups I later played with, had such limited song lists, all rock or whatever, the crowds began to fall off. Gone were the LOYAL FANS that followed your group around the area.
Listeners??? With so many groups playing so LOUD who can converse with friends and guests. After a couple of hours, you see the sober folks leaving.
The line dancers were more self centered, sorta like some sky-divers at the local airport.........
Of late, with no real theme for the band, it's a hodge podge of LOUD sounds to a hodge podge audience doing their own thing.
Have the bands brought any of this on themselves? From where I sit, I'd have to say yes, in many instances. The willingness to work for nothing, gives you little power.
Having little to offer the public is equally
self-defeating. IMHO. that's all.

Perry Hansen · Post by **Perry Hansen** » 24 Mar 2004 11:38 am

Our band has the pleasure to play for an older class that like to older "Real Country". Along with Old Time Waltzes and Polkas. A lot of aplause. In fact one club,(Minot ND Moose), everyone lines up at the end of the evening and personnaly shakes our hands and thanks up for the wonderful dance music. Very rewarding.

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 24 Mar 2004 11:57 am

Let me clarify a dance band. I have been playing for dances since 1940: yes I started in Cal City Il like a few others. Currently we play western swing and ctry songs that people like to dance too. We do a max of two line dances a night; sometime the crowd doesn't want one at all. I have always found dancers to be appreciative of good dance music or music played with a good dance beat. Now I also have played in Haw groups since 1941. We use the tried and true program of playng background music while the folks have dinner or happy hour; put on a hour floor show and then play danceable music for an hour. All thre lenthly preceeding is to say that people appreciate good danceable music irregardless of the classification, pop, ctry,west swing, 50s rock etc.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 24 Mar 2004 12:14 pm

Interesting thread, Bob. I play pedal steel, Dobro, and tenor sax in three very low rent bands. One is a singer-songwriter thing where everyone sits and listens attentively to our originals and old standards of pop, country and jazz. That's complimentary, but a bit nerve wracking. One is an electric blues band, where occassionally we move people to get up and dance. And the other is a rockabilly/alt-country band that mostly plays small bars and rock clubs. Kids there often start dancing, especially with the rockabilly stuff. I love it when they dance. I don't think we are really good enough to just sit and listen to, like a concert. These are jam bands. All of this roots music was dance music to start with, so it feels right to me when people dance. I take the fact that they are moved to dance as a good sign that our energy is being infectious. It raises the fun level for everyone, and takes the pressure off us to play perfect.

On the other hand, I had an offer from a top 40 country cover band - good money and very regular. I didn't follow up on the offer. I don't have the time or inclination to learn all those covers. But I sort of hope others out there keep doing that. It is the only way to compete with the DJs that have killed so much gainful live music.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 24 Mar 2004 4:19 pm

You know,its not the dancing that used to bug me about the line dance crowd. It was thier smug,persnickety attitude. This was across the board.. every club,every state.Yeah, I'm not playing the steel as much these days,but when I do,I see a LOT of smiles.When these kids dance to our combination of country,southern,60's,classic,bluegrass,blues. etc,they let us know how much they love us.I see the smiles,and feel the hugs and handshakes every weekend. I just wish I could feel those pedals under the feets a bit more. The lack of "real" country venues here in NY state[as every where else here in the North East] has forced me back into my rock guitar mode. For many years,I was the "pedal steel player".. these days I'm the "lead player".. Some day I will again play the pedal steel A LOT. It may be a while,but I'll bide my time. Hey it could be worse. I could play neither and have no idea what playing for appreciative folks is like. "I can't complain but sometimes I still do".... bob

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 24 Mar 2004 6:32 pm

I had Dale Watson do a test one time when we were playing a club where they were line dancing.
I told him; lets just Stop right in the middle of the song and I bet they continue to dance.
Sure enough; we stopped right in the middle and they continued to dance.
So there ya have it.
Ricky

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 24 Mar 2004 6:57 pm

Line dancers! Ha,ha. Srew 'em. Not country. Self absorbed. They all leave at 10:00 P.M. to get up for there shuffle board classes on Sunday morning. They don't drink, they don't
like cover charges in order for the band to get paid (God forbid),they don't like music or sex. The best places we play are the road house bars out in the country where farm people ride their snowmobiles into the parking lot. When I pull out the fiddle all hell breaks loose. Two hundred country people
drinking their a$$es off having a good time and not going home early or alone. The bar owners are REAL happy and usually throw us some extra cash. The highlight of the evening for me is when we do "Mama Tried" and people are singing along with it. THATS country. Dancing? If you gotta think about it you're already a loser.

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 25 Mar 2004 2:52 am

Amen, Kevin!!!
Glad I got to play in roadhouses when C&W was real music, and people listened *and* danced. I think I played better then than I do now. And it wasn't a great band-- but we got the job done and were appreciated for it.
Stopped playing when I got to NZ because the scene here is so abysmal. Know three guys from Dunedin who entered the "Country Music Awards" down in Gore. They are good. They got up-- bass, rhythm guitar, and lead-- and did one of Hag's great tunes-- Roy's break and all. All the right harmonies. Didn't even place. They were told it had "no country content." That's how dumb the folks are here. (am I right, Patty and Ivan?)
I just stopped playing with the country music club because it was more fun to shoot black-powder, then to listen to people who can't sing, play, or have the slightest idea what Country is about.
Boy!
You hit a real sore spot!

JW

kevin grissom · Post by **kevin grissom** » 25 Mar 2004 3:55 am

Bob, I play at the Junction Jamboree in Lebanon Junction Ky! It has 650 theater seats and no dancin' of any kind!! We will average playing 75% traditional country. In our show we book guess singers from around the Ky, Ind, area. It is the best thing i have ever been a part of, i looked for 15 years for a gig like this one! Check it out at www.countrycookinband.com. If you are ever in the area stop by and see us! Kevin

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 25 Mar 2004 7:23 am

My jazz manouche band really swings even without a drummer.
It is a listening music for sure, bu twe do get some cute ladies up dancing,
and that is appreciated, because we know they are listening.

My line dancer horror story for last summer was at a small outdoor festival.
5 bands and around 2000 people.

There were some Harleys parked in front of the stage, one non too svelte lady went up and without asking started to move the bikes..
a no no in most biker quarters.

When the classic biker types came up to move them ; and get her mits of their putt putts,
she got RIGHT IN THEIR FACES and loudly, telling then they were inconsiderate OAFS for putting the bikes where they would be dancing.

No consideration that the bikes were there 5 hours BEFORE the bands were even installing...
The bikers were quite considerate and tolerant with her; considering.

But then with the 1st band on, she and 3 friends decided that there were too many rocks in the now dance area, and started raking in the dust right in front of the band while they performed, spreading dust over all around,
and on stage in the wind....
One singer had to stop playing and drink some water mid song.

Subsiquently when asked to wet the ground down before raking,
and only raking between songs... she got LOUDLY indignant,
that the bands were preventing her from dancing.
This was of course during songs,
and it was a festival emplyeee asking, not a band crew or band member.

At this point a 300lb 6'6" friend of one band, incidently wearing biker'Colors",
came and picked up 200lb herself,
and carried her off kicking and screaming, to the festival management tent for a talking too.
This actually got applause for the biker..

She came back more or less chasened with the apparent threat to be ejected...
but continued to give all the bands dirty looks all day...
including bands that were not even in the grounds yet when this inccident happened.
Water was provided and raking continued.

And yes she did yell at bands to play line dance tunes, often in the middle of other songs.
Walk up to the stage and tell them what to play mid song...

It was a VERY hot sunny day, management had set up a tent with outsides with chairs for watching the music, when her crew couldn't do a particualrly large dance step she started trying to move seated people from their positions to give them more room to dance.
TO the point of grabbing shirt sleaves and pulling...
Of course this dancing group was blocking the view to watch the bands play as intended by the festival.

I was sitting there, I stood and told her in no uncertain terms to bugger off.
At this point there was nothing she could say that would have encouraged me to move into the 100 degree sun.

Now one might think it was the beer talking, but no
she was drinking bottled water all day.

She had her "crew" of about 30 and she was clearly queenbee. Several were nice, but still a disruptive, divisive, and generally malign presence for all but themselves.

I got a true dislike of this whole line dance scene that day.

Happilly I did get invited on stage to play twice, once on mandolin,
and the last 2 songs on a laquer PP Emmons.

Ya know I don't remember a single line dancer at Scotty's show,
only Beetle Bob gyrating a bit in front of the PA stacks.
Must be a MUCH better class of people at steel shows!

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 25 March 2004 at 07:47 AM.]

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 25 Mar 2004 8:49 am

You guys should come out west (Albuquerque) where country music is still king. The dancers follow the bands religously from gig to gig and fill the dance floor truly excited at their favorite bands. Of course I am lucky to play with a band that has its own following. The dancers pay my salary. Thank you dancers.......

Perry Hansen · Post by **Perry Hansen** » 25 Mar 2004 11:57 am

IMHO, Line dancing looks Robotic??( If there is such a workd.)

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 25 Mar 2004 12:59 pm

People don't dance to our music. They go home.(or at least someplace else.)

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 25 Mar 2004 2:15 pm

Tim Whitlock - do you really think of the Cotton Eyed Joe as just another line dance?

Steve Spitz · Post by **Steve Spitz** » 25 Mar 2004 2:26 pm

A line dancer asked: Do you clog?? I said "Yes , sometimes when I eat to much cheese."

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 25 Mar 2004 2:54 pm

Good thread Bob!
I once had a group of line dancers actually walk up to a small bunch of other people who were "regular" dancing and tell them to get off the floor because they were in thier
way!SHEEESH! We refused to play another song untill the club owner put them in thier place,wich was share the floor or out the door!Like Kevin said"screw em'"
Country line dancing is as pathetic as Disco dancing is and I hope,will soon be just as dead!!!

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Sho-Bud ProII
"there's been an awful murder, down on music row!"

Dustin Rigsby · Post by **Dustin Rigsby** » 25 Mar 2004 3:05 pm

I have never played in a country band. I am primarily a rock/blues guitarist. I got into pedal steel because I was bored with playing guitar. As far as my club days...There was always some drunk in the background screaming "Play some Skynard man" or "Rush" ! We would try to accomidate and play a very bad version of "Freebird".

As far as line dancers, they all used to dress like Garth and take their ladies to the local dance bar to do the Achy Breaky dance while I was there putting down a cold one after a hard nights work. I have more hillbilly credibility than most of those dorks ! Although I am not from the country,my folks are. We used to go to the "hills" at least once or twice a month. I have milked some cows,fed some chickens,and baled some hay.Took a roll in the hay a time or two

,and done alot of huntin' in my younger days(with real guns)
------------------
D.S. Rigsby
Carter Starter and various six string toys[This message was edited by Dustin Rigsby on 25 March 2004 at 03:17 PM.]

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 26 Mar 2004 5:48 am

Leon - I know that Cotton Eyed Joe has some pretty deep roots, and maybe I should have picked something more contemporary to make my point. Although I'm not positive, I'm guessing that there must have recently been some pretty sterile line-dance friendly versions to prompt requests from that crowd. Audience perception (or lack thereof) is a funny thing. Why did that biker chick expect our obviously slop-bucket country band to know "Leader of the Pack"?

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 26 Mar 2004 8:52 am

Tim - I was almost certain your reply would been what it was - just making sure I wasn't somehow out of touch with the world outside of Texas. I have always assumed our Cotton Eyed Joe dance tune (not the dance), was an authentic old time fiddle tune - maybe it ain't.

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 26 Mar 2004 12:06 pm

Cotton Eyed Joe

Old-Time, Breakdown. USA, widely known, but may have originally been a Texas tune.

ARTIST: From an unknown internet site; CATEGORY: Fiddle and Instrumental Tunes DATE: Late 1800’s

OTHER NAMES: Miss Brown; Cotten-Eyed Joe Going to London; Red Dog; Sugar in My Coffee-O; Ever See a Devil Uncle Joe; Joe; RELATED TO: Did You Ever See the Devil Uncle Joe?; Tom Doucet's Cotton Eyed Joe; Citaco.

EARLY RECORDING INFO: Dykes Magic City Trio got in ahead of Fiddlin' John Carson by 6 days. The Dykes Magic City recording, but it was reissued on Old Homestead LP 191. The other four above are fiddle dominated dance tunes. The Fiddlin' John rendition is basically a series of dance calls. In his notes to County 544 (Georgia Fiddle Bands Vol 2) Gene Wiggins writes that John's 'Cotton-eyed Joe' with its 'mixolydian cast' is said 'by old-timers to be older than other tunes with the same name'. The other renditions are mostly lengthy instrumental breaks interspersed with the usual couplets - 'had it not been for ...' 'went to the window, went to the door ...' etc - the Skillet Lickers' has the most lyrics but even these are repeated. The early recording artists focused on using it for dance purposes. The Carter Brothers and Son recording is great - wild, exuberant twin fiddling:

Virginian stringband - Dykes Magic City Trio 9 March 1927 in New York; Old Homestead OHCS191, "Dykes Magic City Trio" (Eastern Tenn.) {originally recorded in 1927 on a Brunswick 78}.

Georgian stringband - Fiddlin' John Carson and Virginia Reelers 17 March 1927 in Atlanta; County 544, Fiddlin' John Carson- "Georgia Fiddle Bands, Vol. 2."

Arkansas stringband - Pope's Arkansas Mountaineers 6 February 1928; County 518, Pope's Arkansas Mountaineers- "Echoes of the Ozarks, Vol. 1."

Georgian stringband - Skillet Lickers 10 April 1928 in Atlanta; Skillet Lickers, Vol. 1, County 506, LP (196?), cut# 12.

Mississippi stringband - Carter Brothers and Son 22 November 1928 in Memphis; County 520, Carter Brothers and Son- "Echoes of the Ozarks, Vol. 3." County 528, Carter Bros. & Son - "Mississippi Breakdown, Traditional Fiddle Music of Mississippi, Vol. 1."

RECORDING INFO: Agents of Terra. Fresh Oldtime String Band Music, Rounder 0262, LP (1988), cut# 8. Alden, Ray. Old Time Friends, Marimac 9009, Cas (1987), cut# 2. Bowlin, Granville. Mountain Music of Kentucky, Folkways FA 2317, LP (1960), cut# 12 . Bowlin, Granville. Mountain Music of Kentucky, Smithsonian/Folkways SF 40077, CD (1996), cut#2.41 . Brand, Oscar. Laughing America, Tradition TLP 1014, LP (195?), cut#B.05. Camp Creek Boys. Camp Creek Boys, County 709, LP (1967), cut# 12. Carson, Fiddlin' John. Georgia Fiddle Bands, Vol. 2, County 544, LP (197?), cut# 3. Carson, Fiddlin' John. Fiddlin' John Carson. Vol 4, Document DOCD 8017, CD (1997), cut#10. Carter Brothers & Son. Echoes of the Ozarks, Vol. 3, County 520, LP (1970), cut# 14. Carter Brothers & Son. Traditional Fiddle Music of Mississippi, Vol. 1, County 528, LP (1975), cut# 6. Carter Brothers & Son. Going Down The Valley; Vocal & Instrumental Music from the South, New1 World1 NW 236, LP (1977), cut# 6. Collins, Earl. That's Earl, Briar BR-4204, LP (1975), cut# 3. Dalglish, Malcolm; and Grey Larsen. First of Autumn, June Appal JA 0026, LP (1978), cut# 17. Douglas, Wilson. Right Hand Fork of Rush Creek, Rounder 0047, LP (1975), cut# 1. Douglas, Wilson. Back Porch Symphony, Douglas C-7625, LP (1995), cut#A.08. Flippen, Benton. Appalachia, The Old Traditions, Vol. 2, Home Made Music LP-002, LP (1982), cut# 24. Forrester, Howdy. Devil's Box, Devil's Box DB, Ser (196?), 22/4, p50b. Freedom Singers. We Shall Overcome, Mercury MG 20879, LP (1963?), cut#B.03. Freight Hoppers. Where'd You Come From, Where'd You Go?, Rounder 0403, CD (1996), cut# 2 . Gellert, Dan; and Shoofly. Forked Deer, Marimac 9000, Cas (1986), cut#A.01. Hall, Kenny; and the Sweets Mill String Band. Kenny Hall and the Sweets Mill String Band, Bay TPH-727, LP (1973), cut#B.02 . Hancock, Elliot. Rackensack. Volume 2, Driftwood LP 279, LP (1972), cut#A.02. Hawkins, Steve. Singin' Gatherin', Silver Burdette, Bk (1939), p45. Highwoods String Band. No. 3 Special, Rounder 0074, LP (1978), cut# 1. Hobbs, Smiley. American Banjo, Folkways FA 2314, LP (1966), cut# 18. Hofner, Adolph; and his San Antonians. Roots N' Blues - The Retrospective (1925-50), Columbia Legacy 47911/47912-15, Cas (1992), cut#4.08. Holt, David. It Just Suits Me, June Appal JA 0038, LP (1981), cut# 7. Holt, David. It Just Suits Me, June Appal JA 0038, LP (1981), cut# 11. Holt, David. Music of North Carolina, Heritage (Galax) 024 (XXIV), LP (1979), cut#B.05. Hooven, Greg. Tribute to Fred Cockerham, Heritage (Galax) 079C, Cas (1993), cut#B.01. Hornbostel, Lois. Vive le Dulcimer!, Kicking Mule KM 215, LP (1983), cut#B.06b. Hoswell, "Hos" (Jim). Blue Dog Cellar Project No. 1, Kimberly RINC 1245, LP (196?), cut#B.02. Hunter, Ernie. All About Fiddling, Stoneway STY-143, LP (197?), cut#A.01. Hutchins, Esker. Old Time Fiddling at Union Grove. The 38th Annual Old-Time Fi..., Prestige 14039, LP (1964), cut#B.01. Ives, Burl. Wayfaring Stranger, Columbia CS 9041, LP (196?), cut#A.01b. Jackson, Tommy. 30 Fiddlers Greatest Hits, Gusto GT-104, LP (1978), cut# 16. Jackson, Tommy. 30 Fiddlers Greatest Hits, Gusto GT-104, LP (1978), cut# 18 (Fiddlin' Joe). Jackson, Tommy. Country Express, Nashvile NLP 2006, LP (196?), cut# 13 (Fiddlin' Joe). Jarrell, Tommy. Sail Away Ladies, County 756, LP (197?), cut# 13 . Keith, Leslie. Black Mountain Blues, Briar BF-4210, LP (1974), cut# 1. Koken, Walt. Banjonique, Rounder 0337, CD (1994), cut# 9. Macon, Uncle Dave. At Home, His Last Recordings, 1950., Bear Family LC 15214, LP (1987), cut# 12. McCurdy, Ed. Folk Singer, Dawn DLP 1127, LP (1956c), B.02. Michael, Walt; & Company. Step Stone, Flying Fish FF-480, Cas (1988), cut# 8b. Miller, Rodney. Airplang, Rounder 0193, LP (1985), cut# 10. Molsky, Bruce. Warring Cats, Yodel-Ay-Hee 011, Cas (1993), cut# 2 (Inch(ing) Along). Mountain Ramblers. Sounds of the South, Atlantic 7-82496-2, CD( (1993), cut#1.17 . Plank Road String Band. Plank Road String Band, Carryon, LP (1976), cut#B.02. Pope's Arkansas Mountaineers. Echoes of the Ozarks, Vol. 1, County 518, LP (1977), cut# 10. Rector, Red; and Fred Smith. Songs from the Heart of the Country, County 721, LP (1969), cut#A.05. Red Clay Ramblers. Rambler, Sugar Hill SH-C-3798, Cas (1992), cut# 1. Red River Dave and His Texas Tophands. Songs of the Golden West, Remington, LP (1957), cut# 3. Reno & Smiley. Glory Years, Collectors Classics CCLP 22, LP (197?), cut#A.04. Roan Mountain Hilltoppers. Down Home, Roan Mountain, CD (2000/1983), cut#16. Robertson, Lonnie; and the Caney Mountain Boys. Square Dance Fiddlin', Caney Mountain CEP 213, SP (196?), cut# 2c. Rutherford, Ernest; and the Gold Hill Band. Old Cap'n Rabbit, Heritage (Galax) 080, Cas (1989), cut# 4. Schwarz, Tracy. Dancing Bow and Singing Strings, Folkways FTS-6524, LP (1979), cut#B.03. Shannon, Bookmiller. Southern Journey. Vol. 7: Ozark Frontier, Rounder 1707, CD (1997), cut#21. Shannon, Carlos. Folk Songs from the Ozarks, Prestige International INT 25006, LP (196?), cut# 9. Skillet Lickers. Skillet Lickers, Vol. 1, County 506, LP (196?), cut# 12. Sutherland, Pete. Poor Man's Dream, Flying Fish FF-336, LP (1984), cut# 7 (Inch(ing) Along). Texas Dance Hall Band. Cotton Eyed Joe, Roysales RSC 114, Cas (1981), cut# 2. Thomason, Ron. Mandolin and Other Stuff, Kanawha RT-3, LP (198?), cut#A.01c. Watson, Doc and Merle. Down South, Sugar Hill SH-3742, LP (1984), cut# 10. White, Josh. Josh White Stories, Vol. 1, ABC Paramount ABC 124, LP (1956/196?), cut# 8 (Cottoneye Joe). White, Josh; Jr.. I'm on My Own Way, Mercury MG 21022, LP (1965?), cut#A.03. Wills, Bob; and the Texas Playboys. Country Music, South and West, New1 World1 NW 287, LP (1977), cut# 18; County 518, Pope's Arkansas Mountaineers- "Echoes of the Ozarks, Vol. 1." County 520, Carter Brothers and Son- "Echoes of the Ozarks, Vol. 3." County 528, Carter Bros. & Son - "Mississippi Breakdown, Traditional Fiddle Music of Mississippi, Vol. 1." County 544, Fiddlin' John Carson- "Georgia Fiddle Bands, Vol. 2." County 756, Tommy Jarrell- "Sail Away Ladies" (1976. Learned after 1925 from a friend, Charlie Lowe, a clawhammer banjoist who heard the tune broadcast on Nashville radio). Fretless 201, Gerry Robichaud--"Maritime Dance Party." Gusto 104, Tommy Jackson- "30 Fiddler's Greatest Hits." Heritage XXIV, Dave Holt - "Music of North Carolina" (Brandywine, 1978). Heritage XXXIII, Zenith String Band (Conn.) - "Visits" (1981. Learned from the Carter Brothers via Vermont/Ohio fiddler Pete Sutherland). June Appal JA 028, Wry Straw - "From Earth to Heaven" (1978. Version learned from Creed Power {Dungannon, VA} and Byard Ray {Shelton Laurel, N.C.}). Mercury SRW 16261, Tommy Jackson- "Instrumentals Country Style." Marimac 9000, Dan Gellert & Shoofly - "Forked Deer" (1986. Version learned from Carter Bros. & Son recording). Marimac 9009, Doris Kimble & Dave Spilkia - "Old Time Friends" (1987). Old Homestead OHCS191, "Dykes Magic City Trio" (Eastern Tenn.) {originally recorded in 1927 on a Brunswick 78}. Rounder 0074, Highwoods String Band- "No. 3 Special" (1977). Rounder 0047, Wilson Douglas- "The Right Hand Fork of Rush's Creek" (1975). Rounder 0193, Rodney Miller - "Airplang" (1985). Rounder CD0262, Mike Seeger - "Fresh Oldtime String Band Music" (1988. With the Ithica, N.Y., group Agents of Terra). Stoneway 143, Ernie Hunter- "All About Fiddling." Tennvale 004, Bruce Molsky- "An Anthology."

SOURCES: American Ballads and Folk Songs, MacMillan, Bk (1934), p.262 Highwoods String Band (New York) [Brody]; John Hendricks (Bates, Arkansas) [Thede]; Tommy Magness [Phillips/1994]; Steve Hawkins (Rowan County, Kentucky, 1911) [Thomas & Leeder]; Louise Arsenault (b. 1956, Wellington, East Prince County, Prince Edward Island) [Perlman]. Brody (Fiddler's Fakebook), 1983; pg. 74. R.P. Christeson (Old Time Fiddlers Repertory, Vol. 1), 1973; pg. 20. Ford (Traditional Music in America), 1940; pg. 60. Frets Magazine, "Byron Berline: The Fiddle," September 1981; pg. 64. Kaufman (Beginning Old Time Fiddle), 1977; pg. 50. Perlman (The Fiddle Music of Prince Edward Island), 1996; pg. 86. Phillips (Fiddlecase Tunebook), 1989; pg. 12. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), 1994; pgs. 56 & 57 (two versions). Thede (The Fiddle Book), 1967; pg. 26-27. Thomas & Leeder (The Singin' Gatherin'), 1939; pg. 60. Bay 209, "The Gypsy Gyppo String Band" (1977. Learned from Paul Ermine of Prince Albert, Saskatchewan). Traditional Music in America, Folklore Associates, Bk (1940/1965), p 60b; Collins, Earl. Beginning Old-time Fiddle, Oak, sof (1977), p50. Hendricks, John. Fiddle Book, Oak, Bk (1967), p 27; Bay 727, "Kenny Hall and the Sweets Mill String Band." Briar 0798, Earl Collins- "That's Earl." Caney Mountain Records CEP 213 (privately issued extended play LP), Lonnie Robertson (Mo.), c. 1965-66. Cassette C-7625, Wilson Douglas - "Back Porch Symphony." County 506, The Skillet Lickers- "Old Time Tunes, 1927-1931." Kuntz, Fiddler's Companion, http://www.ceolas.org/tunes/fc;

NOTES: See " A Major (most versions): G Major (Ford, Kaufman): D Major (Zenith String Band). Standard, AEAE, ADAE, GDAD (Thede, John Dykes). AABB (Perlman): AABBA: AA'BB' (Kaufman). Charles Wolfe has called this tune "a Texas dance-hall anthem" but it has had such widespread currency in the United States that the tune is really a pastiche of melodies using interchangable phrases, the most recognizable of which usually is associated with the verses:

Where did you come from, where will you go?
Where did you come from Cotten-Eyed Joe. (Kuntz, Fiddler's Companion, http://www.ceolas.org/tunes/fc).

Marion Thede believes 'cotten-eyed' may refer to a person with very light blue eyes, while Alan Lomax suggests it was used to describe a man whose eyes were milky white from Trachoma. In Georgia, people with large whites to the eyes are called cotton-eyed. This usage is fairly common, as pointed out in the quote from a dictionary of slang (Gargoyle). Charles Wolfe (1991) writes that African-American collector Thomas Talley, in his manuscript of stories, Negro Traditions, related a story entitled "Cotton-Eyed Joe, or the Origin of the Weeping Willow." The story includes a stanza from the song, "but more importantly details a bizarre tale of a well-known pre-Civil War plantation musician, Cotton Eyed Joe, who plays a fiddle made from the coffin of his dead son." (Kuntz, Fiddler's Companion, http://www.ceolas.org/tunes/fc).

"Boswell's Folk Songs of Middle Tennessee, which references Talley, The Negro Traditions has this to say: "According to black folk traditions of late-nineteenth-century Bedford County, Cotton-Eyed Joe was a well-known pre-Civil War slave musician whose tragic life caused his hair to turn white; eventually he played a fiddle made from the coffin of his dead son." Boswell collected seven versions." (Kuntz, Fiddler's Companion, http://www.ceolas.org/tunes/fc).

The tune was a favorite of John Dykes (Magic City Trio {Eastern Tenn.}) and it was in the repertoire of Arizona fiddler Kenner C. Kartchner (in the key of G Major) who said a fellow fiddler named Youngblood brought it to the territory from Mississippi around 1890. It was one of the tunes played at the turn of the century by Etowah County, Alabama, fiddler George Cole, according to Mattie Cole Stanfield in her book Sourwood Tonic and Sassafras Tea (1963), and was mentioned in accounts of the DelKalb County Annual (Fiddlers) Convention, 1926-31. The title appears in a list of traditional Ozark Mountain fiddle tunes compiled by musicologist/folklorist Vance Randolph, published in 1954. Some verisons are similar to Lowe Stokes (N.Ga.) popular "Citaco." Ken Perlman (1996), who collected the tune on Prince Edward Island, believes Canadian versions probably derived from the playing of radio and TV Maritime fiddler Don Messer (the 'B' part is played with a strong Acadian flavor). See also Bayard's (1981) note to a related tune "The Horse Called Rover" (No. 10, pgs. 20-21). The original tune for "Cotton-Eyed Joe" may have been originally a Scottish piece called "General Burgoyne's March." (Kuntz, Fiddler's Companion, http://www.ceolas.org/tunes/fc).

LYRICS:

Verse: Way back yonder a long time ago
Daddy knew a man called Cotton-eyed Joe
Blew into town on a travelin' show
Nobody danced like the Cotton-eyed Joe.

CHORUS: Cotton-eyed Joe, Cotton-eyed Joe
Where did you come from? Where did you go?
Where did you come from? Where did you go?
Where did you come from Cotton-eyed Joe?

Mama's at the window, mama's at the door
She can't see nothin' but the Cotton-eyed Joe
Daddy held the fiddle, held the bow
He beat the hell out of Cotton-eyed Joe

Made himself a fiddle, made himself a bow
Made a little tune called the Cotton-Eyed Joe
Hadn't oughta been for Cotton-eyed Joe
I'da been married some forty years ago.

Whenever there's a dance all the women want to go
And they all want to dance with Cotton-Eyed Joe
Daddy won't say but I think he know
Whatever happened to Cotton-eyed Joe!

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 26 Mar 2004 12:51 pm

"Line dance" crowds? We´ve got them over here, too. Been there and done that and it drove me sick. Right after I dropped out of that band I traveled to Austin for the first time and found it pretty impressive that people in the clubs there were actually doing rock´n´roll type of dancing, I hadn´t seen anything like that before. Shortly after I got home I put my new band together and our first public appearance is yet to come (due for next Tuesday) but one thing is for sure, it´s NOT music for "line dancers". If anybody gets caught "line dancing" we will make them pay a fine of 50 Euro Dollars.

Regards, Joe H.