The Lesser-Known Greats

Robert · Post by **Robert** » 14 Oct 2001 3:23 pm

Forumites:
We all know and love the great ones - I'll call them "the usual suspects" - non-pedal and pedal: BE, Day, Green, McAuliffe, Remington, Chalker, Franklin, Mooney, etc. Let's think of some of the greats that we hear less about and compare our lists. I'm thinking of Bobby Koefer and Billy Bowman right now because I've been listening to Late-'40s/Early '50s Bob Wills. I'm sure that if I had the time to give it further thought, I'd think of some pedal players that fit the description. So fill in the blanks, if you're inclined to.

Thanks,
Rob Yale

Derek Duplessie · Post by **Derek Duplessie** » 14 Oct 2001 3:44 pm

Robert,
One of my all time favorite steel players is Jay dee Maness. All though I know some steel
players dont perticularly like the west coast sound , I think he is still one of the greatest steel players out there.

Best wishes,

Derek

Peggy Poovey · Post by **Peggy Poovey** » 14 Oct 2001 3:55 pm

Robert,
We have so many greats here in Texas. The awesome Dicky Overby, Gary Carpenter, and Jr. Kight come to mind as being among the best, in MHO.

Peggy Poovey

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Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 14 Oct 2001 5:34 pm

I was in Trufant, Michigan today at the jam and I'd like to name couple there.

Bob Wright of Traverse City, Mich.,
Bob Cole of Indian River,Mich.,
Forrest Klot (Skeeter)of Grand Rapids, Mich.,
Tim Rowley of Pinconning, Mich,
Clayton Lyon of Mt.Pleasant, Mich.,
Gene Calkins of Cedar Springs,Mich. (you ought to hear him play that triple neck Fender, Just great).

They have a lot of very good players here in Michigan and I am proud to know them....al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 14 January 2002 at 06:09 PM.]

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 14 Oct 2001 6:43 pm

Years ago, I heard a fellow playing a Bigsby and doing a great job of Merle Travis on it.
I believe his name was BoB MEADOWS.....at the time, touring with Tex Ritter. Never heard of him again.
What about Howard White? Mighty fine sounding guitarist.
And too, the steel player that performed "WIGGLE WAGGLE" on RCA with the early days DON GIBSON....during the era of "Dark Future"; "Red Lips, White Lies and Blue Hours"; and others. Sounded alot like JB and yet his own man. Never learned WHO he was. Most deserving of pat on the back.

ESnow · Post by **ESnow** » 14 Oct 2001 9:46 pm

Jay Dee Maness, Mike Johnson, Terry Bethel, Bobby Hempker. And they have all been there-done that.

Tim Rowley · Post by **Tim Rowley** » 14 Oct 2001 10:48 pm

Bud Isaacs, Joaquin Murphy, Gene Crownover, Walter Haines, Buddy Charleton, Bobby Black, Jim Vest, and the list of lesser-known greats goes on...

Blake Hawkins · Post by **Blake Hawkins** » 14 Oct 2001 11:59 pm

Please let me add: Slim Idaho who was on the WRVA Barn Dance and WSB Barn Dance.
Wayne Burdick who played with Tex Williams.
And, Mac Atcheson, a very talented steel player in Atlanta, Georgia. Mac also played on the WSB Barn Dance. From lap steels to pedals he did it all.
Blake

norm mcdaniel · Post by **norm mcdaniel** » 15 Oct 2001 3:40 am

and i dont think you should forget dave musgrave. played with ray price for some time.

norm in waco, tx

ROBERT MYERS · Post by **ROBERT MYERS** » 15 Oct 2001 4:01 am

All of the above plus Don West and a local player here, Quentin Peer, who can hold his own with the best.

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Bob Myers Derby S10 3&4

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 15 Oct 2001 5:11 am

I don't know if I'd exactly be calling Jay Dee Maness and Buddy charleton 'lesser knowns' (no problem with the 'great' part, however...), but I really like the playing of this Canadian named Kim Deschamps. He played on the first two Cowboy Junkies CDs and spent several years with Blue Rodeo. I heard he's playing with Joe Ely around Austin these days. I seldom hear him mentioned. My $0.02.

Tony Chavez · Post by **Tony Chavez** » 15 Oct 2001 5:23 am

Don E. Curtis and Lloyd Maines

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 15 Oct 2001 5:26 am

I don't know if I'd exactly be calling Jay Dee Maness and Buddy charleton 'lesser knowns'

I agree. These two players are talked about often, as well as being subjects of discussion on the Forum on many occasions in the past.

Tony Davis · Post by **Tony Davis** » 15 Oct 2001 5:53 am

Well for my two cents worth....leaving out the 'Names' I have a tape of Smiley Roberts.who desevers every ounce of praise,as a picker,a person and a friend...
(Now do I get your latest C.D)
Outside the States...in no particular order...are Kenny Kitching.[Australia]...every Aussie steel players hero....I'm glad to say mine too
Warren Neilsen [Australia].....my buddy for years......
Nobody has mentioned Norm Hamlet...I spent half my life playing Hag songs with Norm in the back of my mind........
Aw..Heck.......Everbody who plays steel is great in my eyes!!!!!

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 15 Oct 2001 6:31 am

The whole concept of 'lesser-known' is a topic onto itself.
I liked seeing Kim Deschamps being mentioned, but guys like Jerry Brightman, Herb Steiner, Bert Riviera and Neil Flanz played on some 'key' recordings and they remain far from being household names, in some cases they simply kept on picking but dropped out of the spotlight.
It's hard to imagine, but for a time Jimmy Day was more of a bar band picker as was Bert Riviera in the early to mid 1970s in the Austin scene. Sure the locals knew them, but outside of the Austin scene they were forgotten by many.

I guess that's part of this, a lot of the Hank Thompson, Bob Wills guys slipped out of the major spotlight after they left the employ of their famous bosses. While guys like Ernie Hagar, Bobby black and Neil Flanz remained relativley obscure in the 1960s; despite recording sol albums (in the case of Neil and Ernie).

Or, we could talk about the totally obscure, how about Freddy Roulette who played on some Charlie Musslewhite albums in the late 1960s, hey I've heard that there's a great tape of Ray Montee out there, not to mention a tape that Smiley has as well.
Hmmmm, this could go on for some time...

David Weaver · Post by **David Weaver** » 15 Oct 2001 7:12 am

I gotta go with Robby Turner.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 15 Oct 2001 8:33 am

As usual, we haven't specified criteria for selection so I s'pose just about anybody who's ever played a session or a gig and people went 'attaboy', could be considered. That does NOT make you one of the greats, IMHO.

In a small market (Country), compared to Pop or Rock, it's tough enough for Shania or Faith or Garth to be 'household names'. When you consider that (I'm pulling this number out of thin air) 50% or more of the country 'fans' don't have a clue what a steel guitar IS, it's not surprising that not even 5% of them have a clue who Franklin or Bouton is, unless they read their CD inserts with a magnifying glass (which they DON'T). STEEL PLAYERS HAVE NO NAME RECOGNITION BEYOND THEIR PEER GROUP. It's a fact.

Since nobody else knows us, it just follows that we are the only ones who can 'rank' us. I think that there are enough around who are

* Successful Players w/Long, Distinguished Career - played many shows and sessions with successful national/international artists

* A Legend - held in the highest regard among steel players

* An Innovator - created a style, technique, or sound that others imitate

How would you recognize one? If you went to a jam session with a dozen steel players -- no matter WHO they were -- you would remember the GREATS above and beyond all the others.

My list of the greats is pretty short:
Joaquin Murphey
Jerry Byrd
Buddy Emmons
Jimmy Day
Lloyd Green
Paul Franklin

The second tier would be longer:
The 4 M's: Mooney, Myrick, Maness, Morrell; The 3 C's: Charleton, Crawford, Chalker; The 3 W's: Speedy West, Tommy White and Herby Wallace; and then Hughey, Rugg, Garrish.
(once again, IMHO)
I'm sure there are others I might put in this category if I thought about it longer, but these folks have established a successful career, carved a niche for themselves creatively, and are recognized nationally or internationally by steel players. They aren't just 'local legends' or 'flash in the pan' players. They've been 'round the block, have taken a lickin' and keep on pickin'. They'll hold up to the toughest of scrutiny.

Just my 2 cents.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 15 October 2001 at 04:01 PM.]

David Weaver · Post by **David Weaver** » 15 Oct 2001 9:03 am

OK...

I'll wait 10 or 20 more years then I will go with Robby Turner.

Jerry Brightman · Post by **Jerry Brightman** » 15 Oct 2001 9:22 am

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the kind words...

Jerry http://www.slidestation.com

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 15 Oct 2001 9:46 am

lesser-known great? Paul Carestia. There are probably dozens of pickers in the Chicago area that watch his pickin' with rapt attention.

Steve Feldman: You're right. I think Kim Deschamps is playing with Joe Ely and I think with Charlie Robison, too. I've had the opportunity to meet and talk with him several times at gigs we shared and he's very personable guy. If you really want to hear Kim shine check out his solo album. He plays not only steel but several other instruments and sings on all the songs. BTW: I believe he wrote all the songs and produced the CD. The man ain't no slouch!

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Ray Jenkins · Post by **Ray Jenkins** » 15 Oct 2001 11:35 am

Smiley Roberts and Herb Steiner.Not necessarily in that order or even in the same sentence even

Ray

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Steeling is still legal in Arizona

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 15 Oct 2001 11:57 am

How about L.A.'s own Doug "Ernest Bovine" Livingston? Chas Smith and I watched him play in a bass,drums,steel trio backing up a chick singer in a joint down in Burbank the other night and you'd be hard pressed finding a more musically sophisticated and complete steel player.To my ears,he's totally free of any Nashville contamination and the level of detail in his playing approaches that of Lloyd Green,chops & tone for days,etc,etc.(that'll be $20 Doug) -MJ-

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 15 Oct 2001 1:36 pm

For Ray Montee- I knew Bob Meadows real well. I lived in Phoenix in the early 70's and I was playing 6 nights a week at the "Rawhide" a complet western town north of Scottsdale, with Gene Diffie.

I had just sold my MSA D12 and he had a new MSA and let me use his ZB D11 for the job. What a beautiful instrument and tone!

I have went over his very nice home several times in Scottsdale and we jam together and talk steel.

He played all kinds of Steel, but was special on Western Swing.

He has a Western Wear store in downtown Scottsdale. He makes his own leather belts, and even saddles, etc....He's quite a guy, I heard that he had Prostate Cancer and I hope is well now.

About those lesser known players nationally, I would like to say there are few right here in our state of Michigan.

Larry Bell, comes to mind. He is terrific and plays a S12 guitar.

Joe Wright, of course, but is already nationally known.

Here is some more great players that are not Nationally known from Michigan.

Bob Wright, of Traverse City.
Danny Houlihen, of Harrison.
Clayton Lyons, Drew Howard,Tim Rowley.

Gene Calkins ,(a Great triple neck Fender non pedal player).(but he also plays pedals)
Jerry Hendrix,(who used to play with Buck Owens in Bakersfield).
I know I'm going to miss a lot more so please forgive me........al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 14 January 2002 at 06:28 PM.]

Derek Duplessie · Post by **Derek Duplessie** » 15 Oct 2001 2:31 pm

Randle Currie!

slick · Post by **slick** » 15 Oct 2001 3:17 pm

All the above.Where can i get a tape or cd of
Smiley Roberts???

Wayne