I got cheated, can anyone help?

David Greenwell · Post by **David Greenwell** » 31 Mar 2003 10:27 pm

Twelve months ago I purchased 2 Amplifiers and an Emmons LeGrand III from a forum member his name is William Litaker he lives in Kannapolis. In the middle of 2001 I had purchased another LeGrand III from the same fellow – no problems I came to the US met him in Kannapolis, went to his home and picked the guitar up and took it back to Australia ( I live in Adelaide South Australia, Australia). Mr. Litaker advertised the guitar on the Forum “For Sale” posting site.

As my dealings with Litaker were normal and satisfactory I obviously trusted him – so I did the second deal. This time however I sent the money to the US with arrangements for the Guitars and Amps to be sent by International Carrier to Australia, 15 months have now elapsed and try as I might nothing has arrived from the US. I have had every excuse under the sun as to why they have not been sent but Litaker has stopped talking to me will not answer his phone or his emails. I need to find this person he is a musician that plays regularly around Kannapolis.
I'm sorry to post something like this on the Forum but I've clean run out of ideas. I did run this past the moderator Bob before posting this.
If anyone can help me (ie how to go about locating Litaker) or point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it, as I live half way around the world and it's very hard to do it from over here. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Mike Delaney · Post by **Mike Delaney** » 1 Apr 2003 1:57 am

Simplest thing to do would be to contact an attourney in Kanapolis and have him take care of it for you.

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 1 Apr 2003 8:13 am

I'd steer clear of the lawyers and send the local police department after the loser. My roommate had a very similar situation with an eBay deadbeat, and was able to get the problem resolved pretty quickly, i.e., the heat showed up at the guy's door and there was a check in the mail pronto refunding the dough. Let's help this poor guy, I HATE hearing stories like this.

Gerald

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 1 Apr 2003 8:26 am

You might check with a lawyer and/or the police, especially if attornies do free consultations down there "down under" as they commonly do here in the U.S. Because I'm not a lawyer I'm not positive but I think the fact that you sent the money to him you now have a case of mail or wire fraud (you didn't say whether you mailed or wired the money) and that's a criminal case and usually taken quite seriously. Good luck.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 01 April 2003 at 08:28 AM.]

David Greenwell · Post by **David Greenwell** » 1 Apr 2003 2:59 pm

The money was sent by post and was a US mail order. I was in New York at the time. I went to the Post Office just off 42nd Street, used my credit card to get a mail order and posted it to Litaker's address in Kannapolis. He then acknowledged receipt of the money.

Ivan Posa · Post by **Ivan Posa** » 1 Apr 2003 3:27 pm

David my friend, I know exactly how you feel. I have been ripped -off also. Towards the end of 2002, I purchased a D10 Derby from a Reverend Bill Simmons from Keller TX.The guitar was advertised on the Buy and Sell section as being a " showroom condition 9x7 Derby." I wired the $2500US over and the guitar duly arrived. As soon as I saw the way it had been packed I knew I was in trouble. A single piece of cardboard had been taped to the case and when I opened it there were no wooden packing blocks in the case corners and the guitar had been damaged in transit. Many non factory modifications had been done and there were 18 unfilled screw holes in the underbody where attachments had been attached and removed. There were only 5 knee levers on the guitar and when I asked why I was told the other levers were in the plastic bag of parts and to put them on myself. The case was described as very tidy with a few small nicks and scratches. The case is awful. It looks like it has been dragged behind a truck. When I asked the Reverend Bill about the case, he offered to send me a near new one if I paid the freight . This whole deal was a total misrepresentation on his part and I asked for my money back. No way Obviously with me living many thousands of miles away in New Zealand my positon as far as any legal action is difficult. I have waited this long to post this because I shipped the guitar to Bobbe Seymour where it has only just arrived after shipping problems. I wanted Bobbe's opinion on the guitar before posting this and he agrees with me that I have been ripped off. Whatever happens I am well out of pocket on this deal. I have paid freight from and back to the US. We overseas steelers are very exposed in dealing with individuals. I have learnt the hard way and will now only deal with bona-fide dealers like SGN, Scotty's...etc I would appreciate any advice and support from Forum members on how I should best proceed in getting my money back..Many thanks to b0b for a great Forum and to all the members who share their knowledge of Steelguitar....IP

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Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 1 Apr 2003 4:28 pm

used my credit card to get a mail order

Not that it makes much difference in your case, but you can't buy a money order with a credit card. You can with an ATM card though.

Bill Simmons · Post by **Bill Simmons** » 1 Apr 2003 4:43 pm

I would be happy to reply to the comment of Ivan Posa about the Derby he bought. Simply email me personally. Thank You.

David Greenwell · Post by **David Greenwell** » 1 Apr 2003 10:30 pm

In answer to Mr Smith's post, and to be absolutely clear, I used my visa card in an ATM to get a cash advance and with that money I purchased a money order.

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 1 Apr 2003 10:30 pm

Sorry guys, I can't stay out of this one. I am familiar with the Derby guitar Mr. Posa bought from Bill Simmons. I saw and played that guitar at Bill's home just days before he shipped it. It was in like new condition, as a matter of fact, it is the prettiest Derby I had ever seen. I played it for at least two hours and there was no problem at all with this guitar. Mr. Simmons is a honest man and would never misrepresent any item to anyone. It is also my understanding that at Mr. Posa's request, the guitar was shipped from Mr. Simmons to someone in Austin Texas who then shipped the guitar to New Zealand. There are also others who saw and played this instrument just prior to the transaction. I personally feel that Mr. Posa should keep this off the forum and take it up with Mr. Simmons, but since he chose to make it public I feel I should share the facts that I know about this situation. Mr. Posa, I think your issues are with the induvidual or individuals that you had ship the guitar from Austin Texas. My two cents.

Johnny Cox[This message was edited by Johnny Cox on 01 April 2003 at 10:31 PM.]

Ivan Posa · Post by **Ivan Posa** » 1 Apr 2003 11:30 pm

To Johnny Cox. Greetings to you Sir. Firstly let me say how much I enjoy your playing. I have listened to you playing alongside Connie Smith on the Opry. You are a fine player without doubt but I do not agree with your comments regarding my previous post.You may well have played this guitar but I did not buy it on its playability, I bought it on its advertised condition which is what is in dispute. The guitar in question was delivered to the Bax Global shipping office in Austin who then shipped it to me. The guitar was not packed properly for shipping by Rev Simmons and consequently suffered damage in transit because the guitar was not isolated from possible movement inside the case with packing blocks. This is a physical fact and not an opinion. The guitar itself is not as advertised on the Forum Buy & Sell. Anyone can do a search on the relevant posts and can then view the guitar at Steel Guitar Nashville premises where it is at the present time. It has been much modified from factory standard and at no time was this mentioned to me before the guitar was shipped to me. I would not have bought the guitar had I known of its many modifications. The underside is like "Swiss Cheese", full of holes. This also is fact and not an opinion. I have received an e-mail from the Reverend Simmons to which I will reply in due course but I dont agree with you about keeping it off the Forum, for without this great Forum, someone in my position would not have a pot to p in.

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[This message was edited by Ivan Posa on 02 April 2003 at 12:35 AM.]

patrick donovan · Post by **patrick donovan** » 2 Apr 2003 4:00 am

You should contact the US Postal Inspectors and file a complaint. This is mail fraud and is taken very seriously, a Federal case in fact. They have offices in major cities, I know Houston and Dallas have offices. Perhaps a forum member that lives near an office and pick up the necessary forum and mail them to you.

Regards, Patrick

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 2 Apr 2003 6:22 am

Just a word about Bill Simmons.

I recently bought a Profex from him - he was good enough to ship the item to me before he received my check; we've never met, and he only knows my name by virtue of my posts on the Forum.

It was well-packed, and in the condition he'd described. I appreciated his trust in me.

As a 'PS', I should add that, coincidentally, I once NEARLY bought something from William Litaker. He was selling a Match-Bro, and I arranged to meet him on I-40 as I was on my way to 'Emmons' in Burlington from Asheville, NC.

He didn't show.

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Roger Rettig
[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 02 April 2003 at 06:28 AM.]

Mike Castleberry · Post by **Mike Castleberry** » 2 Apr 2003 7:06 am

I owned the Derby guitar prior to Bill Simmons. The Derby was in excellent condition when Bill purchased it. I spoke to Bill after he received the guitar from UPS and his comments were all positive.

Al Udeen · Post by **Al Udeen** » 2 Apr 2003 7:59 am

I have known Bill Simmons personally, since around 1975, when he lived here in Mn.I can tell you one thing for sure, Bill is totally honest in every way, Example, a little over a year ago, I bought a Webb 6-14 amp from Bill & it was exactly as he had told me, It did, however, have a small problem with a couple pots that were noisy,"from not being used for several years" & when I told him about it, he sent me a check to cover the cost of this very minor repair, There's something wrong with the above statements, as I know that Bill would never do anything to misrepresent, or be anything but totally upfront,& honest, regarding any transaction! Al Udeen

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 2 Apr 2003 8:13 am

I'll have to vouch for Bill Simmons, myself

We have had dealings in the past, most recently for a mint condition 1970 Standel Custom XV. Price was reasonable, amp was as advertised, and all transactions were completely above board.

There was very minor damage to the lower back panel, but UPS admitted that it was their fault (believe it or not) and that Bill's packaging was not to blame. I would readily do business with Bill Simmons again.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 2 Apr 2003 8:24 am

I purchased an Emmons D10 from Bill Simmons in March of last year and like Roger, the guitar was shipped before he ever received the money from me. I was quite surprised at that too, considering what these things cost. My guitar was in the condition that he advertised it as.

Also later on, I decided that I didn't like the E66 pickup that was in there. Bill traded me an Emmons pickup, which again he sent to me right away, without having the E66 in hand. I really appreciated his trust, and would do business with him again.

I hope everything works out !

Gino Iorfida · Post by **Gino Iorfida** » 2 Apr 2003 8:53 am

I have to speak op about Bill Simmons myself. I recently sold a guitar to Bill, After correspoonding via E-Mail and getting the deal set up, Bill called me a couple of times also along the way to ensure the deal was going smoothly (i.e. CALLED me with the postal tracking number for his sending payment, which he sent via express mail, since his wife forgot to drop the money order in the mail, he took it upon himself to pay the extra to send it via express, which got the M/O to me actually quicker than if it would have been sent on time-- the date on the money order reaffirmed the story). In my opinion, Bill went above and beyond what was expected. He could have done like others have done in the past ("the check is in the mail"), however, the honesty of him just saying that it was forgotten to be sent is something more buyers should do, but don't. Bill appears to be a very honest individual (never met him personally, but from others dealings with him as well as mine, I have to come to the conclusion that Bill is a great all around gentleman). Would I do business with him again? Absolutely! IT was a pleasure doing bsns with him, and I would again in a heartbeat.
As for the Derby you purchased that wasn't in good condition, I would have to place my bet on BAX Global doing the damage, and like ANY carrier, they will try ANYTHING to avoid paying a claim. As for the underside being 'full of holes' Believe it or not, there are players who don't regularly go over the underside with a fine tooth comb, guys who are players, but do not knwo how to work on the the mechanics of a PSG. -- actually, I have more respect for someone who ADMITS that they don't knwo what they are doing on the underside of one, than the guy who 'McGyver's the mechanics. When I sold the MSA to Bill, he admitted that he was not a mechanic, in fact, had Johnny Cox talk to me about the specifics of the mechanical aspects of the guitar I sold, he also asked me about changing the copedant for him, which I did. Point is, not seeing the Derby or playing it, I honestly believe that the guitar played great, sounded great etc when Bill packed it up. As for the underside having a few extra holes, I expect that anytime I would buy a used guitar, remember, we are not built the same, so where "I" find the knee lev ers comfortable, "you" may not, so guitars that have multiple owners are bound to have things moved around a bit underneath... [This message was edited by Gino Iorfida on 02 April 2003 at 09:01 AM.]

Post by **b0b** » 2 Apr 2003 10:00 am

The dispute between Ivan Posa and Bill Simmons is off-topic for this thread, which was initiated by David Greenwell to address his problem with William Litaker. I'd like to get it back on track.

Does anyone here know Mr. Litaker personally? I'd like to see this issue resolved, as it has been over a year since David sent his money. Is there anyone near Kannapolis who could pay Mr. Litaker a visit? He's been a Forum member for a long time, but he hasn't posted anything recently.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/coolb0b2.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
-System Administrator

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 2 Apr 2003 10:17 am

Ah, Bobby Lee, the voice of reason as ever.

Dave Burr · Post by **Dave Burr** » 2 Apr 2003 12:14 pm

I did a yahoo search and here is a list of all William Litaker's who live in NC (according to yahoo). click here
Two of them are from Hickory, which is only 64 miles from Kannapolis. You might try calling some of these numbers. Maybe one of them is related.

Respectfully,

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<marquee><H1>Dave Burr
Remington Sustainmaster SD-10 3x4</marquee>

[This message was edited by b0b on 02 April 2003 at 03:08 PM.]

Ts McDonald · Post by **Ts McDonald** » 2 Apr 2003 12:31 pm

Bill, I most "Whole Heartedly Agree with the "Other Gentlemen" who have "Posted" on your behalf with regards to their "Business Relations" with you, as You and I have had several "Transactions" which were "Forthright, Honest, Courteous and Stated Correctly", as you said the "Products" that were in your Possession would be"!!!! You "Truly Are" an "Honest, Fair, Just and Responsible Christian Person" to deal with!!!! Thanks,

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Ts

[This message was edited by TS MCDONALD on 02 April 2003 at 12:33 PM.]

Ivan Posa · Post by **Ivan Posa** » 2 Apr 2003 1:18 pm

Thank you everyone for your posts on this matter they are appreciated. I would like to make it clear to everyone this is not a personal attack on Bill Simmon's integrity on my part. There is no one who has come forward with other than good words for their dealings with Bill. Likewise there is no one that will come forward with negative comments on dealing with me either in the US or here in NZ. I treat people as I expect to be treated myself, both in business and in private matters. I have no problem with disscussing this either in public or in private as I have nothing to hide. I am sure both Bill and myself will do our best to resolve this issue as best we can....Ip

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Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 3 Apr 2003 12:05 pm

Hey David,
Just wanted to bump your post up here, but also, any luck with your search for Litaker? I had a similar situation with a steel builder, but I found that pesistence definitely pays off. In the end I got my dough back. Was the Kannapolis PD any use to you? I hope so, I really want you to get your steel and amps, buddy. This kind of thing must not be allowed to go on in our community.

best,

Gerald

David Greenwell · Post by **David Greenwell** » 3 Apr 2003 4:03 pm

Dear Gerald and other members
I'd like to thank you all very much. This really is a community of like minded people. I've passed the information to the Kannapolis PD, they've said they are processing it and will get back to me. However I have had a lot of very helpful suggestions and responses from caring members through my email address, and I'm pleased to say that we appear to be closing in on Mr Litaker. It's always good to think the best of people and I can understand how people may fall on hard times and get themselves into a situation that they find almost impossible to work through. I hope that this is one of those cases, and not straight out dishonesty. In any event I will keep everyone informed of progress, if that's what we achieve. In the meantime, if there are any other suggestions and members don't want to post them, then just email me. The help and response so far has been wonderful.