When you pay big bucks, do you want a show?

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 2 Mar 2003 6:55 pm

QUESTION: In days of olde, the Opry used to be the pinacle of folk-music, hillbilly and later, country western. The Ryman was the SHOW PLACE. The performers used to be bathed in glitter and musicians were the top talents in the country. Folks from around the world had to wait an average of 13 weeks just to get a general admission ticket for next to nothing. Then they had to stand in long, never-ending line that wound around for blocks and stand in the sweltering, muggy heat and/or rain, only to sweat to death inside the Ryman on a muggy evening.
Over the years, the Opry Palace was shut-down and moved. We're told country-music was now a Cross-Over of pop and rock folks.
Rock-a-Billy came along, with lots of drums,
body piercing, bare female bellies and plunging necklines; guys unshaven and shaggy haired, most all with wrinkled jeans and shirts hanging outside their trousers all crumpled up above their sneaker tops.

Eye-catching uniforms that once set bands apart from one another and yet gave each group it's own unique identity are largely gone. The STEEL GUITAR, once an immediate identifier of the vocalist about to sing today is little more than a noise maker most often overplayed by drums or someone else.
Steel player techniques of identity seemingly have been lost...... When the musicians amble into the "room".......it's often difficult to determine who is the music man or who is the patron.

WHEN YOU go to see an act, big name, or local, to hear the music, WHAT IS IT THAT MOTIVATES YOU.....to pay the ticket fee or
cover charge?

Is there any possibilty that today's down turn of country music....could be the result of the newer crop of musicians that are before the public...........many times offering little in the form of visual stimulation and/or audible excitement? WHAT DO YOU WANT TO HEAR? WHAT IS IT YOU WANT TO SEE? Some of the modern trends seem to be sending a bad message....like pyrotechnics.

Just curious. WHAT SAY YOU?

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 2 Mar 2003 8:19 pm

Ray, I couldn't have said it better! I don't understand what these musicians are thinking? They come in looking like bums! If I pay money to see an act I don't want to see sneakers and blue jeans with shirts hanging out. I find the bluegrass acts much more professional looking than alot of today's country acts. Del McCoury band is a good example of a professionally dressed band. Also Dwight Yoakam band as a country act.
I am lucky enough to own a couple Manuel rhinestone jackets from the Marty Stuart band. We have $5000.00 worth of lights and the jackets will knock your socks off visually. We have dress code in the band. I think its one of the reasons we are booked six months in advance and make the money we do. Between the lights and the dressing we constantly get compliments and bookings.
When I go down to Broadway and see these
guys with 2 day growth with their baseball hats on backwards and sneakers I turn around and walk out. They look like they are going to their brother in law's barbeque! I don't care what the hell they are playing at that point. They don't have enough respect for themselves or for me as a paying customer to dress neatly. Screw 'em.
[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 02 March 2003 at 08:22 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 2 Mar 2003 8:58 pm

Right you are. I remember going to the Oriental Theater next to Amatos in the 60s and seeing Marty Robbins, Billy Walker, Porter Waggoner, Hank Snow and tons of others. It was like being part of a dream.

It shure aint like that anymore.

I've always had a pet peeve about people in the bands I'm in showing up in T shirts, tennis shoes, and baseball caps. One guy that had been in a local "top name band" used to show up in such with a flight parka when he thought it was "too cold". It was kind of like making some kind of a statement that "you peons are lucky I show up at all." I dodn't always feel all that lucky..

I've always figured that you should look like you belong in a $300/man show. That way, even if you aren't getting that much, somebody might come in looking for $300/nite player, and hire you.

With the "top names" I alwys thought it was kind of pathetic. One that comes to mind is DY on his "Fast as You" video. Another one ws Gary Morris that would sing his "operatic" stuff with wet hair and Nikes.

The best one that's in my mind is Marty Stuart. There's a guy that came up with class all the way. No doubt about it.

Aaron Schiff · Post by **Aaron Schiff** » 2 Mar 2003 10:06 pm

I seldom pay more than $15 for a show, although I have been known to go up to $30 for someone really special. The best recent show I saw was Doug Kershaw. He still has "it". "It" being show business style and energy. He works amazingly hard at entertaining his audience for a man who must be almost 70. James Brown has nothing on Kershaw as "The Hardest Working Man in Show Business". In November I saw Asleep at the Wheel with Johnny Nicholas, Floyd Domino and Kaz Kazanoff at the Colorado School of Mines in a memorial concert for Johnny's late son Rio. I was so touched by it that I framed the program cover along with the tickets and Ray Benson's pick that I caught at the end of the show. I couldn't believe the effort Johnny put into entertaining US(!), at a memorial concert for his son. I was laughing and joyful and excited and at the same time I grieved to the bottom of my soul for Johnny's loss.

It isn't the suits. Nothing could top the Joe Maphis "Nudie" suits I grew up with or the understated elegance of The Four Tops. It is the respect for the audience. Elvis had it in the '50's, and so did Kiss and Kurt Cobain. But the last two aren't my cup of tea. I won't go to a Kenny Chesley show for his baseball cap and ripped jeans, or a Garth Brooks show either, but lots of people love them. Quite a few years ago I ponied up the big bucks for a Merle Haggard concert and I got just what Merle sings about. He was so drunk that he had to be helped off the stage after about 15 minutes. I love his records, but I'll never go to another show.

So, I guess my point is that the "artist" has to respect his audience and work to entertain them. At the same time, the people in the audience have to exercise good judgement about where to spend their money and their time.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 2 Mar 2003 10:55 pm

Ernest Tubb once remarked that he owed everthing he owned to the fans who by his records and come to his shows. He said he returns that respect by doing the best show possible and he and the guys dress up for the folks to show their respect. He said that these guys in T shirts, cut offs, and tennis shoes are showing utter contempt for their audience, and I agree. Jody.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 2 Mar 2003 11:51 pm

Country music has evolved to the point where it has been dominated by cowboys and divas over the past decade or so (think Garth Brooks or Martina McBride). What seems to sell today is that wholesome yet cute looking girl next door/boy next door image (think Carolyn Dawn Johnson or Keith Urban) or the sex symbol (think Tim McGraw or Shania Twain).

I would argue that all of these newer artists put on a good 'show' regardless of how they dress. But in my opinion, the music matters more than the visual display. When I go to a concert, I want to hear how well a band or a singer can perform his/her/their songs live. If the music sounds good, then it's worth the money.

As for old versus new country music, IMHO the old stuff was obviously better. In the old days there were formulae to follow, but at least country music fans knew what to expect. Oddly enough, most of the old country songs I enjoy listening to don't have PSG in them.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 3 Mar 2003 12:34 am

The music is always going to change for better or worse but it's the appearances that kill me. I've got western shirts in the closet I've never wore because I have my favorites but I wouldn't think of going to the gig dressed in holey jeans and my shirt open. I see young kids on the Opry like this. They should have a dress code. In my days on Lower Broadway here in Nashville we would dress in almost anything because we'd play all day and night long so after a while you get to looking ragged. My wife just came in the other day with a really sharp highly figured western shirt that matches some boots I have but now I have to buy a hat that'll match. The first thing the people see is what you look like and you won't get a second chance at a first impression so dress like it's a show because at the very least it's supposed to be entertainment.

Melinda Dauley · Post by **Melinda Dauley** » 3 Mar 2003 3:29 am

Two of my favourite musicians are/were snazzy dressers.
The first, currently still alive and kickin is 6 string Gretsch player Jim "The Reverend Horton Heat". He has some SNAZZY clothes and I love it that he dresses up on tour. There are sequins, sparkles, flames, notes on sleeves and he even has a suit that kind of looks like a mexican bullfighter's uniform. It all adds to his stage prescence.
You want to see some go to: www.reverendhortonheat.com

The other musician's dress that I greatly admire is the late great Hank Snow. I love the music and I REALLY love the overboard suits. I am working on getting one.
I don't know about my other band members, but I always dress up for the stage. I feel like the whole "Seattle Grunge" thing is OVER. Actually I was never into it. While they were wearing ugly hole-ridden shirts, I still had my dress up shirts and cowboy boots. My daddy wouldn't have had it any other way.
My dad has always dressed up for the stage, my grandpa always dressed up for the stage. Who am I to rock the boat on tradition?
Melinda
PS I can't deal with Mr. Dwight Yokam's camel toe. He really needs to get some slacks and a jacket. The tight jeans have to go.

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Just remember: Bi-valves can't play steel. And if they ask, just say no.[This message was edited by Melinda Dauley on 03 March 2003 at 03:31 AM.]

VERNON PRIDDY · Post by **VERNON PRIDDY** » 3 Mar 2003 5:34 am

I Have Always Dressed For A Show And I Loved They Way The Stars Usted To Dress. But Now I Think The Dress Of This Day Has Gone To The Dogs. SONNY.

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SONNYPRIDDY

J W Hock · Post by **J W Hock** » 3 Mar 2003 6:07 am

To me the start of this sloppy dressing trend has to be the "outlaw " movement of the seventies , when country music became mixed with hippie culture. As much as I love Willie Nelson , he probably can be blamed for this more than any other country artist. After he began performing in dirty sneakers, t-shirts and gimme-caps it became THE STYLE .

Doyle Huff · Post by **Doyle Huff** » 3 Mar 2003 6:19 am

Some years ago a band I worked in played a club for the first time. On the first break some of the customers told us that when we walked in the comment was made," if these guys play as good as they look, it's going to be a good evening". They said they weren't disappointed. We played that gig for over a year. Like Melinda, I always dress well for a show, even the greatly informal gig I do every month. I don't see "stars" show up on stage or tv with holes in their jeans or no shirt. Turns me off. Of course I'm 65 yrs old and still have old ways. For those of you that don't know Jody Sanders or Buck Gratham, these guys always look good on stage.

BDBassett · Post by **BDBassett** » 3 Mar 2003 6:48 am

Good Point Ray,
I got started playing in nightclubs in the early 70s when a lot of us were kinda...well, Hippies if you know what I mean. Even so, when I started to buck the trend and dress up for a performance there was a sense of pride in doing so. The bands I was in made it important to look good as well as play well. Before long we were once again actually wearing uniforms the way our idols did. Our equipment was always clean, chrome was shiny and the black Tolex gleamed under the lights. We took care when setting up that wires were hidden and the stage looked sharp. Grooming was very important to us, hair, clothing and setup all played a part in our performance. It paid off in bookings and good reviews.

Now-a-days I don't play as often and the bands I work with are pretty casual but still dress well, if not uniformly. It's just not the same though, I still kinda like the idea of making a quick round of phone calls late in the afternoon and reminding everyone that tonight we wear...blue.

Tony Farr · Post by **Tony Farr** » 3 Mar 2003 6:52 am

Hey Guys, I notice that I'm not the only one that likes his band to look sharpe. If you play a job you show let the people know who is the band and who is not. A band should stand out from the audience in dress. I have enough uniforms to dress a five piece band to where they do not wear the same thing every weekend. Check us out at; tonyfarr.steelguitarforum.com and you will see just one of the many outfits we wear. So I'm glad that I'm not the only one who likes these things. I've had some guys who said they didn't want to dress up, they keep saying that that was in the past. I don't think so.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 3 Mar 2003 9:11 am

Some line dancers dress more than the band members. Our band keeps it neat with western shirts and cowboy hats--I wear a black derby like a very well known steel player. The hat has seemed to improve my playing

Joe

john buffington · Post by **john buffington** » 3 Mar 2003 10:37 am

The band I work in "Country Classics" to me is just that - "classic". When we do a show - anywhere - we wear starched "blue" Wranglers or Levi's and white starched western shirts and boots. No rips or holes in the jeans or shirts. Old fashioned probably, but I love it and wouldn't trade it for nothing. The audience compliments us many times about our appearance also.
John Buffington

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 3 Mar 2003 10:41 am

If I was to wear what you guys think is proper the people in the audience would be wondering who the geek in the clown suit was.

Bob

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 3 Mar 2003 10:41 am

Thanks EVERYONE for your comments. It's much appreciated, as I was beginning to think that I was just an old man who couldn't let go of the past.
When I first started, the band had black and brown western cut trousers, white shirts,
Stetsons, and nice looking boots. As time went on, we added different colored/styled shirts. As has been said, not only did we in the band feel a little more important, but the fans truly seemed to be impressed to approach us at the local eatery or during our breaks.
As the years rolled on, the bands I played with got a little snazzier, some wore hats and some didn't but we ALWAYS matched our shirts and color of trousers. When TV Time appeared on the scene, they went to white shirts, different colored blazers, straight business suit type ties, boots and NO cowboy hats.
Then came the grunge bunch that looked like they'd just finished changing oil on their dragster or whatever. Finally another band came along, all deputy sheriff's except for me. Dress code was a little more lax however NEAT APPEARANCE was required and arrangements were adhered to. THIS BAND started getting bookings six to nine months in advance and we're talking REALLY BIG BUCKS for the band. Not for the steel player but the BAND, made some good money.
During the past ten years, the bands I've played in again, came in looking drab and hung-over and the band was back down to a gross income of $250 per night.
Portland has one group, the BUCKLES..... who have some really nifty outfits. NOT TOO BRIGHT, not at all restrictive, but REALLY SHARP LOOKING! Ever time some one approaches me to tell me about a new and exciting local band, it turns out to be these same fellows in THE BUCKLES group.
Like previously said: STEEL GUITAR PLAYERS and the band as a unified group, gets only one chance to make a good first impression. Why not be proud of what you're doing and stand out above the crowd. I do believe it will pay substantial dividends.
THANKS to all for your comments. ANY OTHER VIEWS out there? I will not even dignify some group where the band members choose to wear ripped jeans, dirty sneakers and baseball hats on sideways or backward.

seldomfed · Post by **seldomfed** » 3 Mar 2003 12:34 pm

Ray,
We always have a dress code. We wear nice jeans, white shirts, black ties, black hats in the country band, and matching hawaiian shirts and black or white slacks in the Hawaiian band. It makes a difference. People know you're in the band! First impressions are critical for the audience AND the person who hired you.

Lately some of us have been discussing the 'show' in showbusiness. Many bands just go out and play dressed any way they want. A casual blues or rock bar accepts that. Being a musician, if they have killer chops I guess I don't really care what people look like. You need to match the venue and style of the music. BUT, on the other hand, audiences appreciate the 'show' part as much as the music part. Have some patter planned, dress the part, talk to people, put together good sets that flow, read the audience and adapt to the show, play for the audience and yourself. Dressing the part and putting on a show equals professionalism to me.

Now rhinestones - that's another matter. I'll put on a loud Hawaiian shirt, but I do not want to be reflective! Course if Korea drops the big one, perhaps I do want to be reflective

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon"
www.seldomfed.com

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 3 Mar 2003 12:41 pm

Bob,
I know what you mean. I go because of the artist, band,& music.
What they wear is the last thing on my mind.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 3 Mar 2003 1:13 pm

Several years ago, my (bluegrass) band was playing the Riviera Hyatt in Atlanta. We rode in, set up did our sound check(while the bosses watched), and left. That night, we made sure we wore our BEST t-shirts, pressed our jeans, and wiped our sneakers off
before we went to the gig.
Boss calls agent, tells agent,"These guys play OK, but they look like they just came in off the road!" Ever since(nearly 30 years ago) I've made it a point to tell the guys to dress neatly. Not Nudie suits, no string ties--just look like someone who's proud of his job.
But what do you guys do when you're hired as a sideman on a casual, and you know everybody else is wearing flip-flops and cutoffs?

John Troutman · Post by **John Troutman** » 3 Mar 2003 1:27 pm

i agree that a neat appearance can make folks look more professional in many circumstances. i was in san francisco a couple of weekends ago and was able to catch the del mccoury band for the umpteenth time--they're unbelieveable of course, and their appearance adds a real edge and respect (even when i'm surrounded by hippie pot smoker dudes in the audience--the smoke i'm sure annoyed him but his response in san fran is almost unparalled so he seemed to love the show).

but what does the great buddy emmons wear, for example--or as a better question, how much time does he put into his dress? i've seen pictures of him in the troubadours looking sharp in great suit, and also in the '70s, '90, 2000s, etc with (gasp) an untucked shirt. that would not keep me from going out to see him play.

the 'rough' appearance has become the uniform of sorts in many rock, indie rock, 'alt country' type circles. it's a fashion statement, for better or worse, as much a nudie suit is to porter wagoner (or gram parsons, for that matter). as a 29 year old who loves george jones, hank snow, e.t. and countless other uniformed individuals as much as a lot of music out there today performed by t-shirt clad songsters and pickers, i have to say for me, at least, it's about the music--appearance won't keep me away. the performance comes down to talent, and yes, i believe a lot of the 'underdressed' out there on stage are very talented folks...

Rick Ulrich · Post by **Rick Ulrich** » 3 Mar 2003 1:48 pm

I will spend my money where the performers dress like they respect themselves. That's not too much to ask. For those that want to go with the grunge bunch that's their choice. That doesn't mean that the grunge bunch aren't good musicians. It just means they don't care how they look. I just think show busines is show business and when you look grungy you don't look professional or part of show business.

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 3 Mar 2003 2:33 pm

Everyone sort of jumped on the appearance and dress aspects, but I don't really care much about that. Oh, I don't think ripped blue jeans are appropriate, except for Alan Jackson -- it's his trademark.

I want to hear something that sounds similar to the artists' recordings that I've presumably bought. If they played to many studio tricks then replication on stage will be problematic. Haggard sounds like his records, period! That's what I'm after. Oh, I'll admit it does take a good soundman and sound system to bring it to life.

I don't need fireworks, light shows, trapeze acts or smashing guitars. Just give me the music and make sure that includes loads of steel, fiddle and clean guitars.

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HagFan

RB Jones · Post by **RB Jones** » 3 Mar 2003 3:11 pm

I agree with most of you that a sloppy appearance conveys to the audience that you couldn't care less whether they're there or not. George Strait, Brooks & Dunn, they all have dress codes and they and their bands look sharp and you know they're going to give you a show. They follow in the steps of the greats like Bill Monroe and Bob Wills, who always dressed nice.

As to Willie Nelson, yes, he's probably more to blame for the scruffy look than anybody. But I have to say that when Willie sings and plays, there's no doubt that he loves his audience and music passionately. He plays for three hours straight and then hangs around for an hour autographing anything that will take ink. Besides, his look fits the outlaw image that he made into a trademark. Willie wouldn't look right duded up and if you ever saw pictures of him in his early days when he did dress like that, he looks out of character.

The key here is that your look is you. If you can pull the sloppy look off and not disgust your fellow players and audience, then more power to you. But ninety five percent of the time, you can't go wrong by looking good on stage.

RB[This message was edited by RB Jones on 03 March 2003 at 10:40 PM.]

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 3 Mar 2003 3:18 pm

Bob, The band -Kiss- comes to mind,they looked like real clouns.There are other groups out playing that look like clouns,and there not all country. You know what they say today It's to country- don't dress to country ,you don't want to remind people it's country music.Joe.