Melody, to be or not to be...

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 29 Mar 2002 1:35 pm

"Melody, to be or not to be..."

This thread appears to have strayed a bit from its title.

I would like to say that melody playing is a must for a player's talent to shine through. It is true, true, true that melody playing can become boring. Little Roy Wiggins once said he hated "Steel Guitar Rag" because everyone requested it and he had played it every night for 30 yrs. And Roy played 99% melody.

Having said that, I could not agree more with the poster who mentioned that is was easier to play something other than melody. And this is also true, true, true. Playing melody can be very hard at times. If you doubt this try playing strictly the melody the next time you are asked to take a break on a song you have never played or just ad libbed in the past. IT ain't easy Bubba. UNLESS you have the talents of the greats.

In fact it is THAT fact that is very instrumental in what makes them great. The three greatest "melody" players of all time are JB, BE and LG. And the listener relates to it extremely well. In fact, the listener often wants nothing else.

Now ad-libbing and jamming have their place and I love it when done with much taste. But NOTHING is more distracting to the ear than one who NEVER plays melody and only jams.

I also agree that some players could not play melody if their life depended on it. I met a steel player once in Tampa, Fla who played in bands all over the place and NEVER hit a melody note. Everthing he played was ad-lib. I never told him it was not enjoyable. But it wasn't.

In summation; LEARN the melody always. THEN embelish it any way you like. BUT always be ready to play it if you suspect the band and/or audience wants it. If you do it, you are headed for some real work. It is NOT easy! But the rewards have no equal IMHO.

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 29 March 2002 at 01:35 PM.]

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 29 Mar 2002 2:01 pm

Sounds like a resonable response, I do have to re-iterate on one thing, this all started when I read someones post about "It's right to do it this way or that".
In refrence to melody, and that ticked off the liberal in me about music being an art first and formost with out rules telling people how to "Paint" their pictures.
I do have mention [again] I do preffer melody at first half of lead then take that lead out with all the "workaround" notes that sound good [subjective]. It's my prefrence not a "rule". then the whole thing spun into shall their be rules and so on, yup it ran away with itself in this thread and I didn't help

. But melody to be or not to be is the freedom of an Artist, or "Lucky Artist" but not always the freedom of ALL Professionals.

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"Money distroys or Food and Music keep it an art and play from your heart". Sierra Session D10 Keyless , Too many amps to list.

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 29 Mar 2002 2:03 pm

Hey Steve, your used to being yelled at?
Yikes, that happens to me once and I'm out of there . !!!
The point is be happy with your work and gig or set your soul free and look for another band !!1
Scott

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 29 Mar 2002 2:17 pm

This is getting weird.....

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 29 Mar 2002 2:42 pm

....I'm happy.....

www.genejones.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Mar 2002 2:46 pm

I honestly don't know what the problem is, Scott. You sound like you're upset.

The way I see it, some other FORUM member asked a question, and because some of us responded (in a way different than you might have), you got all upset. Let's face it, if playing steel was just a matter of "doing whatever you wanted", there'd be no need for a FORUM in the first place. There'd be no need for lessons, tips, hints, opinions, stories...or whatever. Hell, just make any kind of noise you want, and then be happy and proud of what you've done!

But some of us want more than that. We want to be accepted by our peers (some of them, anyway). We want to be successful. We want to please someone else besides ourselves. We may not always go along with the masses (I often don't) but we don't want to be total outcasts, either!

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 29 Mar 2002 8:14 pm

Scott, I didn't mean being yelled at by any band mates (ment exwifes, parents). I stand by my statement that our job is to make the singer sound good, make the people happy and we got a secure, long gig (maybe, hopefully). There is a time and place for everything, including letting it go, but when you are backing a singer, which I do 90%of the time, I work with folk and folk rock types, I play fills or stuff in the backround to make the singer sound good. It is an ART to be able to do that. But. I have my solo stuff also, during a set there is at least a couple of instrumentals. I try and keep it like Red Rhodes playing for Nezmith, Red never stopped playing, he is always in there doing something. I hope you can see my point here, Carl and Donny seem to sum it up real well.[This message was edited by Steven Knapper on 29 March 2002 at 08:21 PM.]

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 29 Mar 2002 8:16 pm

art should never have rules

Maybe so ..but when your medium is SOUND...the LAWS OF PHYSICS sure play key (pardon the pun) roles

Steve Miller · Post by **Steve Miller** » 29 Mar 2002 10:30 pm

Quote: "Art should never have rules."
---------------------------------------
If you were to change that to:

"Art should have a set of rules that allow for expression and creativity without degenerating into chaos." I might agree.

Scott, I feel your pain!

Seems to me like you know how to play by the rules but have decided you don't like it. There are many of us who feel the same. That's why the Greatful Dead were the top grossing concert band in the world for a long, long time.

If you don't care about the money, I say GO FOR IT! Me? I don't break the rules, I just bend them all the way up to a high G#!

sgm

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 29 Mar 2002 11:53 pm

I LOVE the STEEL GUITAR! EVERYTHING about it!
Contemporary, temporary or whatever. If you don't like your band, move on or start one yourself. That's FREEDOM!

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 29 Mar 2002 11:56 pm

Well dudes, first of all I am not upset, I am not mad !!
The only thing that's getting me on edge is the lack of understanding my personal attitude towards the "free spirited" lucky artist versus the robot unhappy with his job but makeing money for the sake of it.
My job will never be to make a singer or a band sound better through machinations of "In-voluntary" change. My goal and point
is to find a singer , style, and band that my "Natural desires" just so happen to fit in
with no outragous compromises. The trick that makes me happy is to find a band that "
just happens to like my preffered playing and style. Shure I could add flange, chorus echo and all that trash and have a dogface up on stage and be working five nights a week if I want, but that is not my goal in the music world. My goal is to "Flirt" around with band jams and wait for that natural "happening" that needs no co-hersion or forced change of ones real self and soul.
If my natural free will playing does not make the singer sound good and the band blend and gel, I don't fight it, I pack it up and I leave !! Till the next oppertunity comes along / I just wish I didn't have to keep re-iterateing on the point "I am not a proffessional musician" "I am a free spirited artist " using a steel giutar as my emotional expression. Please people don't forget that. I'm not a pro and never will be.
Scott

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 30 Mar 2002 12:10 am

Well I just got back from the gig, and all whent well I must add. I found out tonight that only one [of five] members wants that wacky over prossesed stuff, Fortunatley the leader of the band doesn't !! A lot of air got cleared up tonight and one member was reminded by the band leader that the only reason I was invited to play in this group
was the fact that I don't play loud and wacky, with a fairly dry signal accept for a touch of reverb. The head honcho said if I change that I will be out the door faster than a bank robber. So it looks like I'm luckin out with this one and have 4 out of five votes in my favor. "The man upstairs" the only authority I trust !!! Pulled through again.
Scott[This message was edited by Scott Clancy on 30 March 2002 at 12:14 AM.]

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 30 Mar 2002 4:05 am

AS I said before, you need to build a band around you. Art, as well as music, do have rules. Yes, you can go off on your own and do your own thing, there have been artists and musicians that have been able to do that. But they have been few and far between. As I noted before, the Grateful Dead was one of those imporve bands that worked for years, I could site a couple of artists that did the same thing, didn't sell a thing til they were dead. I sometimes have to do commissions that I would rather not do, but the customer is paying me some big bucks to do a painiting I'd rather not do his or her way. I have done commissions that people didn't like when they saw it, but I keep the up front $$$. I guess what I'm trying to say that if you want to be successful, there are certain rules that must be followed or it don't work. Music has rules, like it or not, we all don't have the luxury of having a singer that follows what you are playing. I give up, this is a no win situation. No hard feeling, I respect what you are saying, and if it works for you, great. One of the first things my teacher, Blackie Taylor told me that my job is to make the singer sound good til it was my turn to let go, in and around the melody, or do an instramental. This has been a interesting discussion, but I'm outta here.
Steve

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 30 Mar 2002 12:28 pm

Sorry man but art will never and can never have rules, "sounding good" is an option, just listen to the trash out there that sells, satanic rock, sexual rap, they don't play by any rules and I personally dispise the sound, but being an art they like me are free from bogus authorities claiming to have rules to an entity that is based on freedom of expression. Sound good to certain people is an option not law. So isn't making money.
If there where rules You can bet I will not follow them, If I play in tune, in key, on time with a certain tone it's becuase I "Feel" like playing that way not because I have to. Till the cows come home I will always pass off people claiming there are rules to the art of music as self proclaimed self appointed bogus authorities discrimminating anyone that sounds "condecending" to that authorities desire. Trying to comunise music is like trying to tell god what to do.
Rules to the art of music is a mind created reality and never part of a real one. Rules to staying employed? THERE IS A TON OF THEM.
I don't care about employment.
In essence there are rules to some peoples music but there are none in mine.Biulding a band around me? I don't have to, looks like I lucked out honestly and naturally, !!![This message was edited by Scott Clancy on 30 March 2002 at 12:29 PM.]

Terry Wendt · Post by **Terry Wendt** » 31 Mar 2002 1:03 pm

here now... tell me if this is melody or is not melody #1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6

Let's hear it!

All small mp3 files -

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TheEarlyDays.com

and appearing regularly...
Jimmy Crawford/Russ Hicks... and Buddy Emmons on Bass! aLotOfSpace.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 31 Mar 2002 2:07 pm

Didn't listen to 'em all (3.6 megs is not small). But, that sounds like melody to me...melody, melody, it's all melody.

Betcha you didn't know you were a "melody player"!

Terry Wendt · Post by **Terry Wendt** » 31 Mar 2002 3:37 pm

Hmmm... I remember what the "pro's" told me when I was a lad... learn the melody first... that's usually the "hard part" on steel-

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TheEarlyDays.com

and appearing regularly...
Jimmy Crawford/Russ Hicks... and Buddy Emmons on Bass! aLotOfSpace.com

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 31 Mar 2002 4:00 pm

Scott, take an art class, you WILL find out there are rules to color, compastion (sp?), light, shadows, etc., I could go on and on. With out rules, everyone would paint like a 3rd grader. I really don't know where you get this, but it's wrong. Same with music, try Harmony 101 and you will get the ground rules for music, from there you can expand, same as art. I'm a trained artist, schools, worked with some of the best watercolorist in my part of the country. After over 30 years of being a journeymen rhythm player, playing by ear only, I knew I was being held back by my lack of basicaly Harmony 101. Now that I have taken up steel cuz I had both my shoulders kinda destroyed, I AM finally learning music, Harmony 101 and more because I have a teacher that requies that I read music, know scales and etc. I am feeling frustrated so I give up, good luck with your carear, NO hard feelings, at least on my part, to each his own.

Scott Clancy · Post by **Scott Clancy** » 1 Apr 2002 9:03 pm

Censored by the poster ,
OOOOOOPPPPPSSS I whent to far here.[This message was edited by Scott Clancy on 04 April 2002 at 09:08 PM.]

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 1 Apr 2002 10:17 pm

Scott, take an art class. I make some very good $$ with my art, that took a lot of training. I teach art classes, so you can take the bogus self appointed crap and stick it. Before you can get to a "style", you have to learn the basics. You think the Masters just jumped in there with a brush and made the masterpieces that are in the Gallaries of the world?? They were apprenticed to other artisits for years until they were ready to paint the way they wanted to. Music is the same way, unless you are as gifted as Emmons, but somewhere along the line he had to learn the basics and developed his style. Now there ARE hard feelings, and if anyone here is a fool, it's you.

Terry Wendt · Post by **Terry Wendt** » 2 Apr 2002 12:30 am

Geesh Steve- sounds like ya gotcha feathers ruffled a little there

I kind of wonder who told you rules were more important than playing what is from the heart? I think the "deeper thinking mind" here would appreciate "playing from the heart" as the "true art" and playing by the rules (referencing to playing steel guitar-music-painting-etc.) as being a lessor "grade" of any kind of art

It would seem that only a beginner would appreciate rules (as in like a child needs a father and a mother as a "model") but even that is insignificant with relationship to "true art". What did you say you do again Steve? Make tons of money teaching steel guitar? Oh yeah, painting and teaching art... hmmm...

I wonder which one of you I would want teaching me art??? - Okay... I pick Scott -

He he he - I'll bet this is when the fun starts hey Bobbe S. ? You knew it could only be 2pT (student of life)

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TheEarlyDays.com

and appearing regularly...
Jimmy Crawford/Russ Hicks... and Buddy Emmons on Bass! aLotOfSpace.com

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Apr 2002 1:44 am

Ok I'll chime in again as we are "moving" pretty rapidly here. I'm thinking that Steve and Scott may have a similar opinion on playing but have approached it from a different point of view. Scott way back in the earliest post made mention that he may start a break playing melody and move to playing around the melody. Where I sit it sounds like thats a good "art" expression and a skilled player. Steve on the other hand appers to be stating that in order to play around the melody ( the art part) you need to be able to play the root melody. Makes sense to me. I doubt anyone would argue that it would be a good thing to be able to play a basic melody / lead line and also be able to "ad-lib" around the melody.
The "ART" is knowing when and where to use each one and to being able to execute. I too would contend that even Buddy didn't just sit down on the first day and start playing 4 Wheel Drive, it was probably the second day !
tp
TPriorSteelGuitar

Steven Knapper · Post by **Steven Knapper** » 2 Apr 2002 9:20 am

Thanks Tony, you put that into a pretty good prespective. You gotta have the basics before you can branch out. I don't make a ton of $$$ teaching art, I do occasoinal workshops these days, but my paintings do sell in the 3 to 5 hundred range. I am still in the learning curve on the steel, as I mentioned before I played bar bands, some session work, etc. for over 30 years on 6 string, electric and acoustc. A accident sorta killed that carear for me BUT I can sit and play steel. As I may or may not have mentioned before, I am NOT THE ART OR STEEL POLICE and being labled as such I find a little on the slanderis (sp?) side and I resent that remark, from anyone. Yeah, Terry, I AM a little torqued about the remarks made by Scott and I resent them, if you want to look at this in a differnt persective, who appointed him the anything goes police. This is going to be the last I will post on this subject, it's kinda getting rediculas and way too personal.[This message was edited by Steven Knapper on 02 April 2002 at 10:32 AM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 2 Apr 2002 10:12 am

Scott,
You seem like such a great guy and are so much more spiritually and artistically evolved than I am. I know I don't posses your intelligence or talent but could you please explain to me how I might have a life as fantastic as yours? What do you do for a living that brings you such happiness ?
Maybe I could get a job there !

I can't believe I waste so much of my life playing pedalsteel never knowing if I am truly "playing from the heart". All this time I felt so happy to be playing music for a living. Now I understand that I was only suffering in empty frustration. Thank you so much for your deep insights.

Bob

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 02 April 2002 at 10:13 AM.]

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 2 Apr 2002 10:40 am

Bob, Scott already explained the key to his insights, when told us to check out www.neo-tech.com.