Emmons Guitar Company , "Incorporated"......

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 2 Nov 2001 8:35 am

Is now Emmons Guitar by Ron Lashley Jr "Incorporated". I think thats what It's called, but the name Is not Important, It's the "Incorporated" that Is.

If someone starts a business, It's important that It be Incorporated. What that means Is If the business fails and ends up thousands of dollars In debt, like a lot do, and they have to file for bankruptcy, the court can,t touch his house, airplane, personal bank account,etc etc, only the asset,s that were named to be owned by the corperation. Not many people would start a busness If not for that law.

So It looks like, I did not say he did, Acoyth filed for bankrupcy, of Emmons Guitar Company "Incorporated", and Ron Jr bought It from Bankruptcy Court....leaveing Acoyth still owning his other busness because of the incorperation clause.

If this Is what happened, again I'm not saying It did, Acoyth Is free of all debts of Emmons Guitar Company Inc.

Ron Jr Is not resposibble for them If he bought It from the Bankruptcy Court. I only talked to Ron Jr once on the phone, that was before I bought my Emmons, and was not impressed by by him at all, so I'm not writing this for him. But the facts stated above Is the way It works.

I recieved a flyer from Emmons Acoyth, that stated If I bought a LeGrande two or three, BEFORE July 30, 2001, I would recieve a free optional knee lever.

Is that the period of time he was, or had filed for BR?. Again, If he did file for BR.

If It was, there are laws against abusing the BR Court. And It appears, that would be the only recourse to getting money back anyone has sent him.

Bob Carlson[This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 02 November 2001 at 08:52 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 2 Nov 2001 8:50 am

There are a lot of "ifs" in your post, Bob. It seems to me that someone in the southeast could do some research and find out what really happened here.

John Sims · Post by **John Sims** » 2 Nov 2001 9:02 am

All "incorporated" means is that you are granting "big brother", i.e., the state or some department of the state, status and possibly control over your "business". There are other ways to protect your a$$ets from probate, bankruptcy and lawyers, such as unincorporated business trusts, offshore trusts, family limited partnerships, limited liability companies and advanced asset protection strategies, etc...This guy knows his stuff and his books are free... http://www.rjmintz.com
I learned alot!

There are aslo ways to protect your personal property.

I don't want to "advertise" here, but if you are interested in more info, e-mail me on the details.

I hope the Emmons Company or whatever it may be, or end up being, survives. They do make a damn good instrument...

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Regards,

John

Steelin' is a way of life!

My PSG website-Carter SD-12-U, 8p/5k, Nashville 1000

[This message was edited by John Sims on 02 November 2001 at 09:05 AM.]

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 2 Nov 2001 9:02 am

b0b,
The If's were put there because I don't know If this Is what happened, and I don't want to end up In court myself.

But as I stated, It appears this Is at least close to what happened.

And I would like as much as you, for someone anywhere to find out the cold hard fact's about this.

Ron, Is It time for you to speak up?

Bob Carlson[This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 02 November 2001 at 10:22 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 2 Nov 2001 10:50 am

Ron Lashley Jr. is not a member of the Forum, and from what I've heard he isn't too inclined to join.

There are a lot of business people who shy away from public discussions like this, and there are others who dive into them and make them part of their business model. Both approaches are valid. I'm not judgemental about it.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (E7, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 2 Nov 2001 12:00 pm

To incorporate your business may have some tax advantages and other areas that can benefit a business. What most people don't realize is when you open up a business or buy an existing one, there will most likely be a debt service. Most if not all commercial lenders will require you to personally guarantee the loan which means all of your personal assets can be used to satisfy a loan gone bad and being incorporated will not protect you. Vendors and suppliers do not always require you to sign personally because their terms are somewhere between "net 14 and net 30 days." Anyway folks, as a consumer, the best way to protect yourself is to use your credit card. Call your bank card for details. Additionally, some states if not all, have laws on the books regarding "30 day all money back," if your purchase is not to your satisfaction. As far as bankruptcies are concerned, if you find yourself in a wicky stick, go to small claims and get a judgment ASAP. Don't procrastinate because if you do and a business files for a chapter, you lose.

Gary Lee

patrick donovan · Post by **patrick donovan** » 2 Nov 2001 1:41 pm

The laws of incorporation vary from state to state. The business is incorporation by the state not the federal government. I would suggest you consult an attorney before taking any of this as "gospel". My business is incoporated in the state of Texas, and much of what has been said is simply not true in Texas. Personally I wouldn't order a set of strings or anything else from Emmons guitar, Inc., I have, and would cheat myself before I would cheat a customer out of one thin dime.

Regards, Patrick

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 2 Nov 2001 4:32 pm

You would think the Emmons guitar company would put out something about what's going on with the company. All the silence would make me uneasy about buying an Emmons at this time, and all the rumors doesn't help their case. But, what do I know.

Harry Hess · Post by **Harry Hess** » 2 Nov 2001 6:32 pm

I don't know Billy Jenkins from Adam, but unless he is a bold faced liar, I don't see how his claim could be considered rumor or gossip. And if that were indeed the case, I'm sure by now we would have heard convincing rebuttal.

The entire matter is extremely unfortunate. In the least, it's unsettling to consider that the manufacturers of the guitar we love so much would have so little consideration for one of us.

I've got 5 cents that says this thread is locked in 24hrs...... any takers?

HH[This message was edited by Harry Hess on 02 November 2001 at 06:47 PM.]

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 2 Nov 2001 7:24 pm

I have to say this one thing in the defense of the Lashleys. I was involved in a business transaction with Emmon's Guitar during the transition between Aycoth and the Lashleys. I talked with Ron Jr.'s wife Rebecca last week. I have never been treated more courteous and genuine as she was with me. I think that the Lashley's saw the quality and service of Emmon's guitar going bad and they are working many extra hours to correct any problems and bring their products and service reputation back to the standard that we all know and admire.

My suggestion to ANYONE on this forum is if it bothers you about Emmon's Guitar Co. that much, then call Ron Jr. or Rebecca and ask them. They are SO busy, they don't have much time to chat. But if you do talk to them, they will tell you the truth about all that has transpired.

Every transaction I have ever made with them has been prompt and courteous. Give them a chance because I know they are trying. As for their products, they speak for themselves. Need I say more?[This message was edited by Bill C. Buntin on 02 November 2001 at 07:29 PM.]

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 2 Nov 2001 7:46 pm

I would think the company would want to reach out to the consumer to let them know things are will with the company. I don't feel I have an obligation to the company to find out on my own. How many players will buy something other than an Emmons because of this uncertainty? This is just my observation.

Martin Weenick · Post by **Martin Weenick** » 3 Nov 2001 1:26 am

I bought a LeGrande III on May the 10th. Of this year. I paid up front in full with Visa Debit card. No mention was made to me about a 5th. knee lever being free. I believe I paid $ 158.00 extra for that. I also paid for a dual output volumn pedal. When the guitar arrived 5 monthe's later the volumn pedal was missing. No note or anything explaining about the missing pedal. I called Emmons and was told that they didn't have any and it would be at least 2 weeks before they could get one. I wasn't about to wait 2 more weeks to play the guitar so I ordered a used one from another vendor which promptly delivered it. Emmons said they would deposit the $195.00 for the pedal back into my account, which they did. I may have missed out on a free knee lever, but I feel lucky to get my $195.00 back. I hope they get things in order up there because they do build a fine guitar. And I sure hope things work out for Billy Jenkins. Martin.

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Martin W. Emmons LG III 3/5 Peavy 1000

B.Jenkins · Post by **B.Jenkins** » 3 Nov 2001 9:43 am

I talked to Mrs. Lashely [Rebecca]on October 26th, and she is a very nice Lady to talk to, and she said that I would be getting my Steel in a couple of months, So by either sometime in December or January I should have my Emmons, So you that live close to us, come on over and we will have a Pizza party and get a first class heartburn.
God Bless
Billy Jenkins

Post by **b0b** » 3 Nov 2001 10:06 am

I don't think that there's any "uncertainty" when dealing with the new owner, Bob. The only problems we've heard about are on orders that span the change of ownership.

If I were inclined to buy a new Emmons, I wouldn't let any of this influence my decision. There have been no credible reports of any shady dealings by the new management of the company (Ron Lashley, Jr.).

As for your contention that the company should "reach out to the consumer"... a company's PR practices are their own concern, not ours. Many conservative businessmen shy away from using the Internet as a marketing tool. It's not up to us to insist that they change that policy.

I want to make a general statement here, so please don't take offense.

I don't like to see this Forum used as a soapbox for people to criticize the legitimate business dealings of Emmons or any other manufacturer. From the conversations I've had with various parties over the past week, it's clear to me that Lashley has done nothing wrong, and that he is working very hard to make good on all of the orders that were in process when he took over.

In the steel guitar industry, it is not unusual for a customer to wait many months for delivery of a new guitar. These instruments are custom made, by hand, and there are always a number of factors affecting the delivery date. Waiting 8 months for a guitar that was promised in 4 is, unfortunately, a common occurance with many steel guitar builders.

There is no evidence to suggest that Lashley is not filling orders as quickly as he can. The fact that Billy Jenkins won't get his guitar until January is not unusual in this industry. Being a "squeaky wheel" on the Steel Guitar Forum isn't going to get his guitar to him any faster.

I've never met Ron Lashley, but when I do I'm not expecting a warm reception from him. This Forum has sullied the reputation of his company, and I am responsible for the Forum. I will apologize. It embarasses me to see the Forum used like this.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/coolb0b2.gif" border="0">
 -b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
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Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 3 Nov 2001 10:47 am

I've never met Ron Lashley, but when I do I'm not expecting a warm reception from him. This Forum has sullied the reputation of his company, and I am responsible for the Forum. I will apologize. It embarasses me to see the Forum used like this.

b0b, frequently in my (former) job as Classified Advertising Manager of the Austin Chronicle, I had to apologize to customers or readers for the actions of those salesmen on my staff. Though I had no hand in their misdeeds, I was responsible for the section as a whole and had to eat the crap. You simply cannot control the every action of those under you without an impossible level of micro-management. For most of my complainers, an explanation of what happened, a sincere expression of apology and an effort to make the situation right in most cases strengthened the relationship the customer had with the paper.

I've dealt with Ron Jr. in the past but can't say I know him well. My impression of him is that he's a level-headed good guy, and hopefully will respond to a sincere apology with understanding and graciousness.

Yes, you created this Forum thing and are responsible for it, but its size now renders it beyond the level of micro-management. I believe you, b0bby Lee Quasar, simply cannot be the policeman for everything that gets said, nor prevent those that are hell-bent on being offended or pissed off about something to keep from being offended or pissed off, and in turn offending and pissing off others.

What's really sad to me is that this whole thing was an unfortunate episode that victimizes everyone involved except the party or parties that actually caused the problem in the first place. Billy will get a guitar but will have to wait much longer to get it, after a load of grief and worry; a good guitar brand name has been sullied after an ill-advised (IMHO) campaign by well-meaning but only partially informed Forumites who really had "no dog in the hunt" to begin with; Ron Jr. will build a guitar that he most likely will never see a dollar for simply to protect the brand name his father created; several forumites have changed their opinions about other forumites for some of the things that were said; and the moderator of this forum will now make an apology, after having been cruelly thrust into a bad situation he didn't create.

I've always been treated well by the Emmons company, even 20 years ago when Ron's dad and I got sideways over who was responsible for a new guitar damaged in shipment to me. It turns out both the Emmons Company and I were victimized by an unscrupulous shipper. But no one had to call out for the lawyers, guns, and money... just a little patience and I was more than satisfied at the way things turned out. Ron Sr., seeing that the shipper would not be standing up to their responsibilty to me, bit the bullet and made me a new guitar which undoubtedly he lost money on. He never brought the episode up to me in the future, he was just happy I played an Emmons guitar onstage. It took just a more little time, but he made it right, and he had my complete respect for the way he handled that episode. That's the Emmons Company I know and one of the reasons why I play the Emmons guitar.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 03 November 2001 at 11:22 AM.]

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 3 Nov 2001 11:52 am

Well said Herb it is so true everyone is willing to rush to judgement when things look bad. The Emmons Guitar is truly or was up to a point the class of the field.Now there are many credible choices out there and it now becomes a matter of preference,need and what one can afford.One must do their homework when spending 3-5 thousand. And when one orders it should only be a reasonable down payment. Only pay in full when delived.Any credible Business should be able to operate on a standard down payment.Taking only full payment on delivery.Mr. Jenkins I hope comes out OK it seems he has a promise.Now lets sit back and see what a promise is worth.

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CJC

John Sims · Post by **John Sims** » 3 Nov 2001 4:16 pm

Thank You b0b. Thank You Ron Jr., Thank the Emmons Co. Please lock this one b0b.

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Regards,

John

Steelin' is a way of life!

My PSG website-Carter SD-12-U, 8p/5k, Nashville 1000

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 3 Nov 2001 5:11 pm

Bob I never said that Ron should come on the fourm at all. It is his right to run his company anyway he wants. I know Ron is doing his best.I was just saying If it were me I would want the steelguitar world to know that the company is in good hands and things are ok. As a consumer I don't know that right now and as a result would not buy an Emmons guitar at this time. It would not be the first time a major guitar company went under. In six months Ron may be going strong and I could change my mind. after all Bob as you said this is a new company with a new owner. But he does have one heck of a product in his corner.

[This message was edited by bob drawbaugh on 03 November 2001 at 07:41 PM.]

Bill Hamner · Post by **Bill Hamner** » 3 Nov 2001 9:17 pm

b0b & Herb,
Each of you have posted words which go far in correcting any wrongs this lengthy post
created. Congratulations to both of you for taking the time to get this thing back on track!

Bob Carlson · Post by **Bob Carlson** » 3 Nov 2001 9:23 pm

I started this post with the intentions of explaining why Lashly Jr (in my opinion) Is not responsible for orders that were taken, and paid for, by Acoyth but not filled.

When he told Billy that his Lawyer had advised him, If he filled one order, he could be held responsible for all the unfilled orders by the former corperation, I feel that statement said Acoyth filed for bankruptcy. I did't say he did, only my opinion.

I do feel Ron should send a form letter (or something) to at least (the list he should have) of previous buyers, tellig us something.

So I also think It's time to close this post.

Bob Carlson.

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 4 Nov 2001 4:46 am

At least Ron is getting the company back up and running. It could have gone under. Then Billy wouldn't have been the only one to lose out. It seems to be all worked out.

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My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

John Sims · Post by **John Sims** » 4 Nov 2001 6:23 am

I wish everyone would quit listening to lawyers...

Buck Reid · Post by **Buck Reid** » 4 Nov 2001 7:09 am

I agree with you b0b! I think a person should have "facts" before they get on here and spout off something they know nothing or very little about! I certainly don't feel that you(b0b),should apologize for the actions of someone else! And would like to add that i hear alot of complaints about the price's of Steel Guitars,and how long they wait for them. People have to understand that it takes a certain amount of money and an incredible amount of time and effort to build a quality Steel Guitar. Most builders can't afford to have good help because they barely make enough on each sale to restock for the next guitar! When you think about it,most Steel companies have not increased the price of their guitars enough to keep up with inflation! So let's keep "bickering" over those "already low" prices! All i'm trying to say is that if the Steel Guitar industry were allowed to grow at the same rate as most other industries in this country,we might get our guitars faster!

Jerry Brightman · Post by **Jerry Brightman** » 4 Nov 2001 7:26 am

Bob Lee and Herb,

I could not agree with you more. Your words are well spoken (as usual). I have played an Emmons guitar ALL of my playing life for the most part, and I'm not about to change a good thing now.

I'm performing, practicing and working on my CD, and thats what I will continue to do, with an Emmons guitar.

Jerry http://www.slidestation.com