Playing For The Song

Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 10 Aug 2001 1:44 pm

Guys, I was just setting here today at my steel and I realized we may be seeing the art of what I call "Playing For The Song" slowly but surely going by the wayside. That is, playing what fits the song we are doing at the time even though we may not be able to use some of those fancy licks we just learned. I know we like to hear our fellow steel players show out with what they can do and thats ok, but on most of the recordings I'm hearing these days, in my opinion, they are really not playing what fits. I say "most" because there are recordings out that the steel fits perfectly. John Hughey is a master at playing what fits. I can't remember ever hearing John on a recording playing something that didn't go with the song. And there are others, but not very many.
I guess what I'm saying is that if we are doing a song that somewhere in it that a one clear fill note is just what is needed, to hell with a 5 chord progression or some fancy lick that we want to show that we can play and how many pedals we can push.
Don't misunderstand me. I don't think we should stop trying to learn all the things we can on steel. I just think we should be a little more aware of what fits and what don't.
Well, that's my thought for the day.

Jerry

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 10 Aug 2001 1:50 pm

Jerry, I think jam sessions and steel shows were made for showing off. All other cases: K.I.S.S. !!!

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 10 Aug 2001 2:17 pm

Jerry, I agree with you 100%, simplicity is good, but......................................the other stuff sells.

Larry

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GO TITANS GO!!!
[This message was edited by Larry Miller on 10 August 2001 at 03:20 PM.][This message was edited by Larry Miller on 10 August 2001 at 07:20 PM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 10 Aug 2001 2:39 pm

Jerry, I agree 100%....Remember the band leader who we both worked for at different times in the past whose creed was:

(1)"If you don't know a chord on a song, learn it, don't lay out.

(2)If you can't force yourself to play the melody, play something close to it. Keep it simple enough that the people who paid to get in here can understand it.

(3) Stop trying to see how many notes you can cram into 16 bars just so you can "knock out" those two visiting musicians...they didn't pay to get in anyway.

(4) The only person here that you need to impress is me, because I'm the one who pays your salary!

Best wishes,

Gene

Randy Pettit · Post by **Randy Pettit** » 10 Aug 2001 2:44 pm

I am reminded of a story I read years ago in Guitar Player magazine, in which Jeff "Skunk" Baxter was called to the studio by the producer for some recording project, listened to the recorded tracks, decided that there was nothing that he could add that would make the songs better, didn't play a note, and was paid for his time.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 10 Aug 2001 3:23 pm

Good story Randy......it reinforces the conventional wisdom that one of the important qualities of a "good musician" is that he knows "when to play" and "when not to play".

B Bailey Brown · Post by **B Bailey Brown** » 10 Aug 2001 4:18 pm

Jerry,

You have probably not discovered the secret to playing GREAT steel guitar, but you have discovered how to keep a job!

As someone else said, you are not really there to impress the two other musicians in the house. I agree with that principal completely. Should we play “below” our ability? Yes, in many cases I think we have to do that. “Great licks”, or “Hot licks”, whatever you want to call them have their place in the steel world. Generally speaking it is not on a bandstand. There are certain tunes where you can stretch out and play some cool stuff, but nowadays they are far and few between. If the singer calls one of those songs, go for it…if not, don’t try it because it will only get you in trouble.

Not because you played anything bad, but because it didn’t “fit” with the song.

Having said that let me add that learning neat licks is NOT a bad thing. I discovered years ago that you won’t be able to use them in most cases, but it improves your technique. When that happens, the simple stuff you will play sounds all that much better. Then you get called back next Saturday night because you are the best Steel player they ever had! Weird business we are in, but it is fun.

B. Bailey Brown

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 10 Aug 2001 4:19 pm

We;ve talked about this before. Playing "backup" is what it's all about. The singer is the "star" and we are there to make him sound good. The guy that wants to play all the time or show off is not a "good" backup musician.

Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 10 Aug 2001 4:27 pm

Thank you Bailey & Gene. You have said exactly what I was trying to say only you each are a lot better with words than I am.

Jerry

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 10 Aug 2001 4:54 pm

No substitute for great taste,Steel guitar is pretty, play it that way, thats why we get hired. Not to be a banjo, guitar,piano, ETC>
Great taste! It always sells.
I'm sure glad this was brought up, great subject! Think about it then do it.
Bobbe

Harold Dye · Post by **Harold Dye** » 10 Aug 2001 6:00 pm

Playing backup is an art. Sometimes we sound better when we don't play. The person listening is not interested in how fast or how much we are able to cram into a short space, but how well it fits with the song. I have heard players put something simple but tasteful and it made the entire song. Thats what I listen for on a recording. As mentioned earlier John Hughey is a master at this...so are many others

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Aug 2001 6:19 pm

Jerry...I'm not really sure what you're saying!? If you're saying that the session steel guys are overplaying nowadays, I would have to disagree. I think steel is vastly underplayed, and the producer/engineer is at fault. With just a little steel, they can call it country, but it will still sound rock/pop. When the steel plays too much, well...then the kids will think it's "cornball country", and they won't listen, or buy it.

It's my contention that steel is on a lot more records than it used to be, but it's doing a lot less.

When's the last time you heard a chart record with a good steel intro?

I'd say it's been a few years!!!

Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 10 Aug 2001 6:49 pm

Donny, what I am saying is that I'm hearing a lot of great steel players playing a lot of great steel but most of what I am hearing does not fit the songs they are working on. This is only my opinion and I'm open for others.

Jerry

Kevin Walker · Post by **Kevin Walker** » 10 Aug 2001 8:17 pm

I don't know, I think what's played and how it's played pretty much fits these days. Most of the stuff that I would call cheese and reflects limited chops would go back 20 years or thereabouts. I agree with Donny; in that steel guitar needs to be heard, and playing one note in any given tune, looks and sounds more cornball to me than just chunking a chorded back-up.

Just an opinion!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 10 Aug 2001 8:27 pm

Sometimes we sound better when we don't play

Funny... people keep coming up to me and saying that...

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 11 Aug 2001 3:07 am

Good comments above.......For the past two years I've been playing a lot of the current material on the shows that I work, especially those done by todays female singers...and I am expected to duplicate the steel part as it was originally recorded on the albums, which is mostly "color" with very little lead work. Everything is charted to sound exactly like the CD.

I've been trying to define what I do and it finally came to me:

"On many of the contemporary albums the steel is there, but like the bass line, you don't really notice it unless you specifically listen for it or remove it."

Not very satisfying at times to just copy off an album, but on the other hand the musical director is consistant. If the steel is up front and dominant on an album such as Allan Jackson and others, you get to play that too.[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 11 August 2001 at 05:25 AM.][This message was edited by Gene Jones on 11 August 2001 at 07:03 AM.]

Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 11 Aug 2001 3:21 am

My idea of a good steel man is just this. Whether you are working a 4 hour job or doing session work behind an artist, play so as the average listener would not realize you are there but that if you were not there they would realize it imediately.
No one that I know of can do this even close to 100% of the time but it is something to be strived for.

Jerry

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 11 Aug 2001 11:11 am

After reading some of these answers it amazes me that the steel guitar is even still in existance. B.Bailey Brown said something about playing below our ability. If you think that playing three notes where they fit tastefully where you may could put thirty just because you can is playing below your ability you are on the wrong page. To me playing below your ability is not caring if you are in tune or not, not feeding off of everything else that's going on around you. If we only play for ourself and other steel players we wiil die a cruel death. And Kevin Walker, I remember HEARING about you many years ago and some of the sarcastic remarks you made about me back in the '80's. It seems you would have learned to think before you speak by now. As for your comment about the lack of chops from 20 years ago and it sounding cheesie if you think you can out play Buddy,Doug,Hal,Weldon,Lloyd,and a host of others heere in Nashville bring your UNLIMITED CHOPS on down to Davidson Co. Tn. and put your money where your mouth is and try to make you a place here. I know I'll catch it and b0b will say I'm a biggot and arrogant and slap my wrist so be it. Kevin you have a right to think what you want but don't be putting down others on here that have paved the way for all of us. The bottom line is yes play to fit the song a band is a joint effort. Mike Swweney

Bob Coombes · Post by **Bob Coombes** » 11 Aug 2001 11:56 am

Jerry , i think you have hit it right. Back in the early "50s" the best example on this subject and in my humble opinion was Hank Snows backing steel. A good buddy and peer of mine named Danny Shields once told me to strive for domenite simplicity and the rest will come. Well its been many years and a lot of water has gone under the bridge butit seems this is good advise for any aspiring or experienced player. so if you have access or can find some of the old Hank Snow recordings just listen very closely and i think you will see what i mean. Thanks again Jerry for your thought. "Till next time PEACE TO ALL". Bob(BC) Coombes

Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 11 Aug 2001 12:38 pm

Darn guys, I didn't mean for anybody to get a burr under their saddles.

Jerry

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 11 Aug 2001 1:54 pm

Jerry, Noone has a burr under there saddle here in Nashville that I know of. My point is that yes play for the song and the moment. There are right times for showing off and wrong times. But when you are playing in a band whether it be on stage or in the studio you are an equal in that situation not the star unless you are playing a steel show or making your own album and even then if you want to make money with it don't get too far over peoples heads because after most people listen to something like that once or twice they get bored and go on to something else. As for my other comments. I think it's a shame that someone who isn't in the music scene full time and making there living with it thinks they can run down things that have set the pattern for us to go by. As far as todays recordings I'm hearing alot of things I heard Pete Drake do in the '60's and '70's and things Ralph Mooney did in the '50's and '60's. That is not to say that the guys in the drivers seat can't and don't occassionally play some great things and I expect the reasons are many why they play what they do but if you were to ask them if they think all that stuff from way back was "cheesie" I think if they are honest they will say no. I hate to come off abrasive but sometimes I do but the bottom line is don't knock what has been proven successful all this time. When I played on my first record session when I was 19 years old the owner of the studio in Salem,Va. told me the best advice anyone could have about recording and that was,"just fill the holes between the lines and don't step on the singer, play something that fits the mood of the song,DON'T play too loud and play with a pleasing warm tone, and don't waste the time of the client,producer,and the other players". And untill I moved to Nashville in '90 I was one of about 3 steel players that was doing most all of the session work within a hundred mile radius of Roanoke,Va. Let me say this before I get any replys about staying up there. I keep in touch with some of the guys I worked with up there and they tell me the area has dried up as far as music goes{live as well as studio}and also I was going through some rough times personally so the change has been good for me. Also the music scene was on its last good leg then anyway. I'm not setting the woods on fire session wise down though I have good periods and slow ones but I try to keep the same advice frome over 20 years ago to heart and it seems to make people happy. Mike

Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 11 Aug 2001 3:28 pm

Mike, well said and I respect and welcome your opinion although I don't agree with some of it. Isn't the USA great.

Jerry

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Aug 2001 7:51 pm

Ya' really gott'a love a guy that says what he thinks! AND believes what he's saying! Total honesty is a rare commodity here or anywhere,lets appreciate it whenever we can get it!
Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 11 August 2001 at 08:52 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 11 Aug 2001 9:28 pm

I'm always happy on those rare occassions when other musicians show up to hear me play, but I don't change a thing just because they're in the audience. I develop my parts to fit the song, the way I hear it. If the musicians in the audience aren't impressed, that's okay by me. I've never claimed to be a great player. Chances are, if I played to impress I'd fall flat on my face anyway.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
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Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 12 Aug 2001 3:21 am

Bobby, I have heard you play and for what it's worth, I was impressed.

Jerry