Nashville or Hilton?

Tom Mnich · Post by **Tom Mnich** » 7 Dec 2006 10:26 am

I've been playing PSG for only about a year and have some limited funds to expand my PSG gear. Top of my wish list is a Hilton pedal and a Nashville 112, but can only afford one or the other at this time. Which should be first?
I presently play my Mullen D10 "VE" (VE= very early, Mike said this was one of their first 15) through an Ernie Ball volume pedal and a Fender Super 60 (60W tube amp).

Ron Whitworth · Post by **Ron Whitworth** » 7 Dec 2006 10:34 am

Hi Tom;
My advise would be get the Hilton pedal
if your amp is working OK at this time..Ron

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 7 Dec 2006 11:13 am

If you get the Peavey amp, you can use the 3 cord method of hooking up the volume pedal, which is an acceptable alternative to a powered pedal, in my opinion.

Gabriel Stutz · Post by **Gabriel Stutz** » 7 Dec 2006 11:45 am

I'd say go with the Hilton pedal. I was amazed at the difference it made in my tone when I got mine. My steel sounded much better through any amp I tried. I'll never mess around with a pot pedal again. If your amp is reliable, I'd try the pedal first.

Gabriel

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 7 Dec 2006 12:50 pm

I'd get the NV112, and of course I'd order a Knob-Guard to keep it's little knobs protected! www.jimeatonmusic.com
JE:-)>

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Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons SD-12PP 3/4
Zum SD-12 5/5 - 91'
75'Session 400
06 Nashville 1000
06'Nashville 112 x 2
w/Knob-Guard

[This message was edited by Jim Eaton on 07 December 2006 at 12:51 PM.]

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 7 Dec 2006 5:02 pm

Your Ernie Ball is just fine. As Richard said, if you get the Nashville 112, you can use the three chord method and loose nothing from you volume pedal. That said, make the Hilton your next purchase when funds permit. And for the fun and practice of it, play without a pedal for a while to get good control of your right hand. You might decide to not use a pedal.

Al[This message was edited by Al Terhune on 07 December 2006 at 05:03 PM.]

Darrell Owens · Post by **Darrell Owens** » 7 Dec 2006 6:26 pm

Tom,

My "vote" is buy the Hilton. No Contest. It will do more for your tone than any other one thing you can do.

Darrell

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Darrell Owens
www.darrellowens.com

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 7 Dec 2006 9:21 pm

i can tell you one thing for sure , the hilton is one thing you won't be sorry that you bought

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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400
Hilton volume pedal

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 8 Dec 2006 10:18 am

What's the "3 cord method"?

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 8 Dec 2006 10:19 am

my vote for the Hilton

then get a NV112 w: knob guard

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 8 Dec 2006 10:49 am

P Gleeson...on a NV112, for instance, that's plugging you guitar directly into the regular input like a 6 stringer would, then run a cord from the pre-eq send patch to the input jack on your volume pedal. Then another cord from the volume pedal's out jack to the pre-eq patch return. This can be done on the Peavey amps that have the pre-eq jacks on the front panel.

This was designed to eliminate the impedance matching problems caused by loading down the pickup with the pot that's in a pot pedal. It doesn't apply for pedals like the Hilton or Goodrich LDRs. They're already impedance matched.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 8 Dec 2006 3:09 pm

Hilton Pedal.

TRAP TRULY · Post by **TRAP TRULY** » 8 Dec 2006 9:26 pm

The Ernie Ball pedals have 250k pots in them dont they.. the Goodrich have 500k's.The 250k's will be mellower and the 500's will let more of the highs through.I had a E.B. pedal when I started and remember changing out the pot to a 500k like the Goodrich pedal has in it.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 8 Dec 2006 10:00 pm

The pot values at 250k might be fine, depending on the tone of the guitar. If it's really treble-heavy, stay with 250's to thicken up the tone. If it seems to enhance the lows and lower mids, then 500k pots might be in order. But you need to listen to the guitar plugged straight in with the amp controls set flat to get a baseline.

As far as the 3-cord system on a Super 60, you'd need to look at a schematic to see where the send/return jacks are in the circuit. Not all effects loops bypass the EQ section completely or will provide impedance matching (or avoiding).

Colby Tipton · Post by **Colby Tipton** » 10 Dec 2006 10:44 pm

Used Sho-bud, Emmons or Goodrich passive volume pedal and used 112 amp., then you'll have both. This would probably run you less than buying just the new amplifier. You can then save up for a Hilton volume pedal and save the other for a spare.

Colby

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 15 Dec 2006 10:27 pm

What are you guys talking about when you refer to the pot in your pedal allowing (or not) more highs or lows through depending on the ohmage? The only thing that will affect frequency response is a change in impedance - of which resistance is a part, but NOT the part that has an effect on frequency. It is the capacitive and inductive reactance that will affect frequency and make a tonal difference. Further, for any given volume setting on your amp, you will select a specific resistance in the pedal to get the volume you want. That resistance will be the same (at that specific volume level) whether the pot is 50K or 250K or 500 meg. The rate of change (from full volume to whatever minimum signal the pot allows at maximum resistance) is what will change, i.e., the pedal will swing from full on to full off much too quickly if the pot has too high a resistance, or will swing from full volume to almost-full-volume if the pot has too little resistance. .....or am I missing something completely in this thread?

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 16 Dec 2006 6:49 am

I'd go for the NV 112. I've had a couple of Hilton pedals and to me they're not worth it. I believe my sound is just as good or better using the three cord patch with my Goodrich. The Hilton recommends that you don't use the 3 cord patch. One thing I hate about the Hilton is that dang attached cord with the wall wart on the end of it. Try driving to a gig with your packseat in an equipment trailer (unheated) in the dead of winter with the pedal cord all rolled up. See how long it takes for the thing to straighten out. I use the Goodrich with the 9 volt battery in it (Model #H10K) which works great. The NV 112 is easier to get a good sound out of than most amps out there. It's easier to get a nice tone with it than my NV 400 was....JH in Va.

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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 16 Dec 2006 8:09 am

Gil,

If you model the pickup as a signal generator with series resistance and series inductance with the winding capacitance across the inductance then feed it across the pot and amp for a load, you will see that the pot resistance does affect the frequency response. The transfer equations will show this. Actually the pot loads the the pickup at 250K ohms or 500k ohms at full on and this may or may not change much with pedal position depending on the input impedance of the amp. The center terminal of the pot is actually connected to the amp side. If you plot this out with two different volume pot values, you will see that the frequency response does indeed change. The values of the R, L and C in this RLC circuit ALL affect the frequency response.

If the pot R is lower, the pickup's inductive reactive will dominate more, dropping more of the high's in the pickup, resulting in a mellower tone. If pot R is higher, the high freq's will roll off slower and you will hear more highs at the amp. This is no different that adding an uncompensated buffer amp (high R) to the pedal or inline causing more highs to be heard. It's a little more complex than this becuase the PHASE of the signals will also be affected, giving the two tones different character. In either case, changing the pot resistance will have no effect on the overall volume at any pedal position.

One could put a fixed 500k ohm resistor in parallel with the pedal pot and add a 1 megohm pot in series (one end and the center terminal) with the resistor. You could then taper the sound between the 500k pot sound and the 250k pot sound by simply turning the 1 meg pot from full on to full off. This has probably been implemented in a product before.

Greg[This message was edited by Greg Cutshaw on 16 December 2006 at 03:07 PM.]

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 16 Dec 2006 8:45 am

I Would Say The 112 They Are Great Your Pedal Will Do Fine. SONNY.

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Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 16 Dec 2006 9:40 am

Thanks, Greg, for your response. I had always considered the foot pedal as a series variable resistance in the signal path, not a load paralled with the amplifier across the coil. This makes a big difference. It also makes the coil-volume pedal a tank RLC circuit in which the value of the pot is the main factor in determining the circuit Q and thus the response to any resonance. So, you're right. Live and learn. Thanks for the enlightenment. Gil

Ken Yates · Post by **Ken Yates** » 16 Dec 2006 1:12 pm

The Hilton pedal all the way and save up the coins for the N112 or you may find a good used one and save a few coins too. There's 2 on the fdorum for sale now by Billy Tamm in the amps forum.
Ken Yates

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GFI Ultra,S10 w/pad,,,Nashville 112,,,Nashville 400,,,Hilton,,,Profex ll

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 16 Dec 2006 1:14 pm

Well, I just ran Greg's and Gil's comments through "FreeTranslation.Com" and even they couldn't translate that to English.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 16 Dec 2006 2:57 pm

First, I gotta say I really think Keith Hilton makes a great pedal. I can't use it for the same reason that others have commented on them, the cord and the size make it impossible to get it under my guitar. But if you don't have the space issue, get the pedal. If the pedal doesn't work out, keep your amp and get a Black Box. It'll do more than an amp change to help!

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 16 Dec 2006 5:11 pm

Well, my opinion may not carry any weight, but; IMHO the newer Low–Profile Hilton~Pedal hooked me, the first time I tried one, (Less than 1-yr. ago) and I wished I'd have tried a Hilton sooner! I'm completely spoiled now, when playing the PSG. I'll probably stay with a Pot~Pedal for Non-Pedal Steel, because; I'm not looking for that ‘clear-as-a-bell’ sound on a non-pedal guitar! There actually is a difference in sound as well as the style of playing between PSG & NPSG! If your Amp. is working well, replace it later, if you must! I'm not crazy about the Wall–Wart either, but; - - - - -!

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“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
Current Equipment

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 17 Dec 2006 9:29 am

Why don't you try the pre eq patch first, then if that is not suitable, try the Hilton pedal. Besides, I'm sure that you already own two additional instrument cables, so there is no costs involved. The Nashville 112 would make more sense to me, then the Hilton pedal.(sorry, Keith).

Mike Brown
Peavey USA
1-877-732-8391, ext. 1180.