6L6 - Groove Tubes

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 24 May 2005 10:30 am

I am about to place my order for some Groove Tube 6L6's. Lots of different descriptions/tones/colors available.

For those with buy'n'try experience, what would you recommend for :
a) Les Paul/classic rock crunch
b) Tele / country lead tones
c) Steel guitar

Thanks !

[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 24 May 2005 at 11:42 AM.]

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 24 May 2005 2:22 pm

Tom, Get the No. 7 Groove tubes. They are so clean. I put them in my Twin and couldn't believe the clean tone.

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1985 Emmons push-pull,Evans SE200,Hilton pedal, Jag Wire Strings

Ricky Littleton · Post by **Ricky Littleton** » 24 May 2005 6:29 pm

Craig hit it dead on the money!

Ricky...

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Emmons LeGrande - 8x4
Session 400 Ltd, Nashville 112,Hilton Volume pedal, Peterson VS-II Tuner
Dan-Echo, E-Bow, Ibanez Distortion, Boss Comp./Sustain, Ibanez Auto-Wah, PX4 Pandoras Box

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 24 May 2005 8:13 pm

Thanks guys! I'll get the No 7's for Steel.

How about for my Les Paul (clone...).

Do you think those 6L6 CB (the "coke bottles") will give me something like the breakup of an EL34?

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 25 May 2005 6:49 am

The 6L6 CB will definitely not sound like an EL34. http://www.groovetubes.com/tubes.cfm go to that link and look around, there is a tube selection guide that will help. Big bottle tubes are great, my favorites actually- but they are definitely not for the british OD tone.

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Sierra S8, Rickenbacher T-Logo Bakelite lap steel, Peavey Delta Blues, Regal Dobro, Teese RMC2 Wah, Proco Rat, Lap Dawg bar

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 25 May 2005 12:49 pm

Double what Keith said. There's something about a 6L6 tube in that when it starts to break up, it still sounds clean and actually seems to get warmer sounding. When an EL34 starts to distort, boy you know it. You know, that Marshall crunch.

Brad Sarno

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 25 May 2005 12:51 pm

Keith - I see that the CB's (coke bottles) are actually preferred by blues players "for their early breakup".

The EL's breakup early, too, at least compared to the typical 6L6 GC.

How would you characterize the sound of the CB's compared to the more conventional late breakup of the 6L6 GC? What artists, genres, etc. work best with the coke bottles?

Damn - I want to buy and try a bunch of 6L6 offererings - but a 'tube library' gets awfully expensive, especially with power tubes at $25 per. I've already got a few hundred $ tied up in 12A*7s' and they're half the price.....

[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 25 May 2005 at 01:57 PM.]

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 25 May 2005 12:56 pm

Hey Brad - we posted simultaneously.

I actually was hoping you'd chime in. Could you give me some pointers on selecting a few trial sets of 6L6's.

I play about 20% steel guitar, and 50% rock guitar, and 30% country in my sets. I am restoring a Heritage VTX for all jobs. Note that it has a half power switch, and requires 2 pairs of 6L6's

John Knight · Post by **John Knight** » 25 May 2005 3:09 pm

Not to sound stupid here, but what do you guy's mean by No.7? The 7th listing under the 6L6 family.

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D 10 Thomas with 8&6, '61'D-10 Sho-Bud 8&3
S12 Knight 6&4
Nashville 400 and Profex II
81' Fender Twin JBL's
Asleep at the Steel

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 25 May 2005 6:56 pm

Groove Tube makes sets of tubes numbered 1 thru 7. The higher the number the cleaner the tube. I just happened upon these at a new store last week. This store just got a Carter in and the manager was looking for an amp or two to sell with the Carter. He is looking at Evans and already has the Fender franchise so he is ordering a Steel King. Sorry to all you Peavey users but they don't carry them.

Vern Wall · Post by **Vern Wall** » 25 May 2005 8:20 pm

Tom, don't feel bad about prices. When I was a ham in high school tubes were $3 to $5 and my wages were only $.60 an hour!

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 25 May 2005 9:37 pm

Vern,

Wow - that is one real bad "Tube to Earnings ratio".

Geez - did you have to mod lightbulbs to keep your amps running back then ?

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 26 May 2005 3:22 am

Tom, let us know how the Heritage comes out, what speakers you're using, etc, I have two of them, one with BW's, the other with a Scorpian and Blue Marvel combo. I got them at $200 each and I thought they were cool amps with good power at that price, I haven't messed with tube replacements yet, but heard somewhere the tubes last longer in them compared with other amps. Have you tried this place http://www.thetubestore.com/6l65881types.html [This message was edited by jim milewski on 26 May 2005 at 04:25 AM.]

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 26 May 2005 5:53 am

Is Groove Tubes really "making" tubes now? They used to just buy tubes and test them and rate them for their characteristics.

My Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue came with GrooveTubes (6v6s). They sounded lousy and one burned out quickly. I replaced them with a set of NOS Brimar 6v6s and rebiased, and the amp instantly perked up.

For interesting reading on tubes check out:
http://www.webervst.com/vstbbs/bbs.html
Click on "Tubes" in the left column. There is currently a thread about Groove Tubes in there titled "Groove Tubes - Force or Darkside?"

I have dealt with these folks and had good luck with them: http://www.kcanostubes.com

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 26 May 2005 3:14 pm

Hey Jim,

Why don't you try swapping one of the Black Widows with one of the Scorpions or Blue Marvels. I've been mixing JBLs or Black Widows with Celestions/Eminence speakers and I love the way it sounds. It has the jbl like chime but is way warmer than all JBLs or BWs.

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www.tyack.com

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 26 May 2005 4:53 pm

Dan, yes mixing speakers works well, get a nice frequency coverage, the Marvel Scorpion works well, and the BW/ Marvel should as well, but those BW's are heavy, the Heritage with the 2 BW's is heavier than my Session 500, but the amp does have casters, the BW's I have are the paper dust cover, thinking maybe they're more EVM sounding than JBL, I may give it a shot

Andy Zynda · Post by **Andy Zynda** » 27 May 2005 7:55 pm

Bill is correct, GT does not manufacture tubes. The import, relabel, and resell. They have purchased rights to manufacture some few certain tube types, and a small few components are made actually in the USA, but then the parts go overseas, for fabrication and assembly and then get shipped back.
-andy-

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 27 May 2005 8:28 pm

Thanks, all, for the good advice.

I decided against Groove Tubes, and ordered through "The Tube Store" - which has a more transparent marketing approach (e.g. OEM tubes) and what appears to be a more sophisticated matching process.

I purchased 3 matched pairs of [Svetlana] SED Winged C - pairs with early breakup, medium breakup and late breakup [rock, country, steel ?) - so that I can determine which characteristic best matches my playing style, amp/settings, etc.

I've read reviews on these tubes that put them somewhere between 'average' and 'excellent' - but the review that made all the difference is the one where the tester declared that this tube seems to have a bit of both the British and USA classic tone(s) - depending on surrounding circuitry.

I guess I'll begin the experiment when they arrive mid next week. Can't wait !

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 28 May 2005 4:51 am

Keith - I see that the CB's (coke bottles) are actually preferred by blues players "for their early breakup".
The EL's breakup early, too, at least compared to the typical 6L6 GC.

How would you characterize the sound of the CB's compared to the more conventional late breakup of the 6L6 GC? What artists, genres, etc. work best with the coke bottles?

They are commonly thought of as blues tubes, as they have a pronounced "sag" and are extremely open sounding; they sparkle when you play clean, and are best IMO when you don't have the amp fully cranked. Their best characteristics show when you are just on the edge of overdrive.

Damn - I want to buy and try a bunch of 6L6 offererings - but a 'tube library' gets awfully expensive, especially with power tubes at $25 per. I've already got a few hundred $ tied up in 12A*7s' and they're half the price.....
No cheap tickets to heaven, my man...

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Rickenbacher T-Logo Bakelite lap steel, Peavey Delta Blues, Proco Rat, Lap Dawg bar

Michael Whitley · Post by **Michael Whitley** » 28 May 2005 12:25 pm

Tom, I've had good luck with Svetlana's 6L6s. For more British, there's supposed to be a modern KT66 out there which (supposedly) interchanges with a 6L6CG, although I'm not familiar with it. For more dirt, I've liked the Sovtek 5881s, and for more clean, I like NOS RCAs, when I can afford it.

Michael Whitley · Post by **Michael Whitley** » 28 May 2005 12:41 pm

...and have had WONDERFUL luck with used eBay RCAs, tested, from the middle period. For clean. Your milage may vary.

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 30 May 2005 6:25 am

I have the Svetlana SED Winged C 6L6s in my Mesa Boogie Mark II 1-15 right now. I love the clean tone (warm and musical), and the distortion is good also. They are a bit warmer thn the Mesa Boogie tubes.
Happy so far.
Lefty

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 31 May 2005 8:08 am

I have to give some applause to The Tube Store . com's (and Canada Post's) service.

I ordered on Friday afternoon, and Monday afternnon, the tubes arrived. Haven't tried them yet - but the turnaround was impressive.

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 31 May 2005 10:12 am

Bill is correct, GT does not manufacture tubes.

Says this right on the GT website:

Groove Tubes bought it’s present building in August of 2000. The new GT home has close to 12,000 feet of office, lab, and manufacturing space and is located in the small town of San Fernando, California. The new building has allowed expansion into actual tube production, and Aspen was blessed to be able to acquire the entire production line from the old G.E. company upon it’s closing. This line will produce the original GE 6L6 and 6CA7 power tubes to the original specs and sound. Actually, at NAMM 2002 in Anaheim GT proudly introduced the first effort from this adventure, showing the new GT6L6-GE to rave reviews...it was generally confirmed this new GT tube is the exact equal of the famous 6L6. Jimi Hendrix recorded may of his hits with this tube in his Fender Twin Reverb.

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Andy Zynda · Post by **Andy Zynda** » 1 Jun 2005 7:56 am

The truth is:

GT bought a bunch of NOS General Electric 6CA7 plate material from Richardson Electronics about six years ago. They also acquired some tooling to stamp 6L6 and 6CA7 plate structures.

I don't know if they do the stamping in the U.S. or if they sent the tooling and material to China (I suspect it is the latter), but the tubes are certainly assembled, flashed, and pumped in China.

(Clipped from WEBERVST board. The same info can be found at the Amp Workshop. GT makes just barely enough part content in the US to legally state "Made in USA". They make the plate material here. That's all)

The Emperor has no clothes...
-andy-