Hum - old house wiring

Jud Thomas · Post by **Jud Thomas** » 11 Jul 2005 1:21 pm

My house is kind of old and the wiring is outdated (2 prong). As a result, I get really nasty hum from my pickup. I recently got it rewound by Jerry Wallace, and the tone is awesome, but still that dreadfully loud hum. It doesn't happen at other people's houses, so I know it's my house wiring. I've looked for a humbucking pickup, but my old Sho-Bud with the old top-mount pickup just won't take any of the humbucking pickups that I've seen.
In short...
HELP!!!
1. What can I do at home to reduce this hum? Noise gate?
2. Does anyone make a humbucking pickup that will fit my Bud? (Bill Lawrence does not, I've talked to them at length.)
Thanks for any input.
Jud

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 11 Jul 2005 1:51 pm

If the hum is because of the AC and it's in the amp, a "humbucking" pickup won't do you any good.

One thing to try is to reverse the AC power plug, and see if that helps to minimize it. Some amps have a ground or line reversing switch to do that. Old Fender amps were designed for the two wire and no ground circuits.

Another option is to run a 3rd wire ground for, at a minimum, the power outlet you are using for your amp.

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 12 Jul 2005 5:59 am

I had that problem and did as Jack suggested. I installed a receptacle with a ground and ran the ground wire to the ground rod for the telephone system. You could also drive your own ground rod close buy or use the metal pipes if they are still metal all the outside and into the ground.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 12 Jul 2005 6:57 am

you should consult an electrician Jud
it sounds like your house needs a proper earth & some renovation
obviously,3 prong is what you need
water pipes are hooked up to the earth as equipotential connections but should NOT be used as the main conductor to the earth if you're in the country.
in the city however, water lines are sometimes the only connection to the earth.
Creating an earth using 1.50 meter rods ( 2/3/4 spaced 2 meters apart ) according on the terrain & it's potential of absorbing fault currents or surges due to lightning.
earth's resistivity is measured in Ohms
100 max - the lower the better (5 ohms)
Fault current breakers will complement the earth & shut off when needed

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 12 July 2005 at 07:57 AM.]

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 12 Jul 2005 8:41 am

Jud, a few things that can have an effect:

Are there any lighting dimmers in use?

Is there a power company transformer on the pole right outside your window?

When you set up at home is your amp (or any other items with transformers in them) any closer to the pickup than when you set up anywhere else?

There are other possibilities as well but these are the most common offenders.

Charles Dempsey · Post by **Charles Dempsey** » 12 Jul 2005 11:43 am

Don't forget fluorescent lamps. You can get a nice big 60 cycle hum off those.

Charlie

Jud Thomas · Post by **Jud Thomas** » 12 Jul 2005 11:46 am

Dave,
The hum is the worst the closer the steel is to the wall/window. I do have a transformer on the pole about 30-40 ft. from my window which is very close to the steel. Unfortunately, this is where I have to set up since I have a very small house, a wife and 2 kids. The hum disappears when my volume pedal is up all the way and since it changes due to position in the room that leads me to believe that it must be picking up frequencies from elsewhere. There are no dimmers or anything else that would really interfere nearby except for the transformer on the pole.
What can I do about that? Will a humbucking pickup cancel most of that out? How about a noise gate or something similar?
Thanks everyone for replying, and yes, I do need an electician to come update my wiring regardless. I also need more income, but that's another story, ha!
Thanks,
Jud

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 12 Jul 2005 12:18 pm

Jud, a computer monitor will cause all kinds of hum problems with a single coil pickup.

If, by chance, you have a monitor in that room, try switching it off and see if it helps.

Tucker

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 12 Jul 2005 4:09 pm

The hum is the worst the closer the steel is to the wall/window. I do have a transformer on the pole about 30-40 ft. from my window which is very close to the steel

There you have it, that single coil is gonna treat that power transformer just like music, it don't know any better.

Yes, a humbucker would help to reduce the noise but it would also change your tone, maybe good, maybe bad, your call there. Personally I would use EQ to ditch it at home and keep the old 'Bud's tone intact for gigs.

How close to your strings is the pickup? I had a lot of noise issues for years with my Pro I until I followed the advice of a number of other forumites and moved the pickup up to 2 quarters' width from the 1st string, three from the 10th. The increase in signal-to-noise was radical and I no longer have to EQ it out.

Good luck, keep on pickin' - dg

Jud Thomas · Post by **Jud Thomas** » 12 Jul 2005 4:45 pm

Dave,
Thanks for the good advice. Do you have any suggestions on how to best EQ the hum out? I'll try to raise the strigs and see if that helps too.
Thanks again,
Jud

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 12 Jul 2005 6:55 pm

Jud,
If your bud is a D10 you could try this:
reverse the wires to one of your pickups then run them both at the same time. It will cut your output a bit but will make your pickups "humbucking" . When you get into a normal environment you run the pickups one neck at a time and you have lost nothing.

The EQ or noise gate solution has never worked for me. There are some great humbucking pickups out there to check out if the out of phase trick I described works for you.

------------------
Bob
My Website

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 12 July 2005 at 07:57 PM.][This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 12 July 2005 at 07:59 PM.]

Jud Thomas · Post by **Jud Thomas** » 12 Jul 2005 7:54 pm

Yeah Bob,
No dice...My Bud is a late 60's S10. I would love to try a humbucker in there, but I have yet to find one that will mount. It's got the screws that go through the top of the pickup (top mount). I don't even see those made anymore.
Anyone know of a humbucking pickup that will work?

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 12 Jul 2005 11:15 pm

Jud, the EQ ting depends on what gear you have available.

If I have a parametric (which I do in my rack rig) I set the width on the lowest filter as narrow as possible, boost the filter and sweep for the WORST offender (usually 120Hz), then cut it out until I can live with it. You could also use a graphic EQ to do the same thing.

My Randall amp has a five-band graphic and I just cut the lowest band if there is AC hum. Cutting the bass on an amp with only two or three bands usually thins out the tone a bit too much for me, but for practice at home it might be the only choice.

Again, a new humbucker will not sound the same as your old ShoBud single coil at all, if the only time you have trouble is when practicing at home I couldn't recommend going that route.

Addendum to my earlier post: I did a search and see that a lot of folks recommend one quarter's thickness on the high end and two quarters on the low for the old 'Buds. THis should seriously reduce the noise you hear when playing, when not playing you can just shut the volume pedal down.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 12 Jul 2005 11:18 pm

Oh yeah, forget the noise gate idea, they only work when there is little or no signal, in which case either your volume pedal should be all the way down anyway or you are trying to sustain a note and you don't want some gizmo turning you on and off.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 12 Jul 2005 11:28 pm

One more thing, I'm sure you have already checked this, but if the noise goes away with the volume pedal all the way UP it may just be that the I/O plugs on the volume pedal are reversed. I know it sounds elementary, but it has happened before....

Assuming that this is not the issue, a rudimentary humbucking effect can be achieved by rotating the entire guitar until you find the position in which the noise is the quietest.

Okay, I'm all out of ideas now....dg[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 13 July 2005 at 12:31 AM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 13 Jul 2005 5:27 am

Jud
That model pickup is, IMHO, the best sounding Sho~Bud pickup they made. I have a 1970 Professional with those p'ups in it and the tone is wonderful. Try not to change that thing out if you can avoid it.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jud Thomas · Post by **Jud Thomas** » 13 Jul 2005 11:51 am

Thanks to everyone, seriously. I don't think changing the pickup is going to be an option and I really don't want to anyway because like Herb said, it really is a nice sounding pickup. I'll keep foolin' around with the location, the pickup height, and the EQ until I have something I can live with. Anyway, thanks again everyone, seriously for all the great feedback.
Jud