Using 2 different speakers

Wayne Franco · From: silverdale, WA. USA

I have a Stereo Steel setup I really like. Just as an experiment I was thinking of replacing one of the JBL speakers with a 15 inch Black Widow. I use to use 2 amps occasionally and it was very full sounding. They were a Nashville 400 and an old Evans I still have. Very full sounding to me. The cabinets for the Stereo steel are sealed and ported. I was thinking the different frequency response from the 2 speakers would give me an even fuller sound.

Has anyone tried this?

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Dubya, I have done quite a bit of experimenting with dissimilar speakers. I agree that the stereo effect is enhanced as in the use of 2 different amps. Currently I am using a BW1501 and a BW1203 in my Tubeworks rig. This combo, so far, is the best sound I have ever had.
The RT921 rev. unit has separate eq for each stereo side though, so I can tweak each one. The only downside I can see with the SS rig is the lack of separate eq's.
The BW is 4 ohms as compared to 8 most probably, with the JBL, but this should not be a problem with separate vol. controls on your SS.

Actually, I do have a SS rig myself and have used the 12 and 15 mentioned above with good results.
I can't recall if I have tried the BW and the JBL in this rig or what the results were, but I probably have.
Try it, you'll like it! Good luck.

Wayne Franco · From: silverdale, WA. USA

Thanks for your response Jerry. I just talked to Gary Walker about this. I forgot to mention that one amp was without effects (a little reverb only). Gary said to unplug one effects return and try that. I think a 1501 is only $100 buck so it won't break the bank to experiment. Guess I could try lots of things like making one speaker out of phase, etc.. My problem is I think I liked the JBL's a little more at first BEFORE it got broke in and became warmer.

Billy Easton · From: Nashville, TN USA

Hi Wayne...
Although it is not the Stereo Steel System, Hal Rugg uses 1 JBL and 1 Black Widow (both 15") in his rack system. I am using the Stereo Steel, and really prefer the JBLs. Good to see you in Mesa this year again. Take care.

Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

One of the most interesting uses of disimilar systems I tried was years ago one summer, my mom was gone,
and my brother an I took over the living room.

One side was two 3-way Klipsch Cornwall speakers with Marantz 90w a side tube amps,
on the other was
Two 2-way Altec 604E studio monitors with 100w a side MacIntosh power
The turntable fed both Marantz preamps with the same signal, but we could switch left or right speaker signal if we wanted.

Not too shabby a system for a couple of 17 year olds. Eh?

Well this was the summer of Jeff Beck's "orange" album, and John McGlaughlin's inner mounting Flame.

Each side of the room had different cross over points and small nulls in the natrual set ups of the speakers.
Sometimes things would peak together, and other times one speaker was louder in a range,

When Beck played those great long lines or bent a note It would travel across the room in different directions depending on the frequencies.
And Billy Cobham's drum rools had very unique trajectories too.

So we had this 400w system on stun and lead guitars flying like banshies all around the room.

Nice to live in the country, with a recording studio in the basement to raid for parts...

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 22 January 2005 at 03:03 PM.]

Wayne Franco · From: silverdale, WA. USA

Hi Billie

Thanks for the info. I just may try that very thing and see how it sounds. BTW...I really liked your show in Mesa. You really sounded and played great. I expecially liked the second set. Very confident with feeling!!!

Wayne

Hook Moore · From: South Charleston,West Virginia

Will it hurt a stereo amp if you use a 4 ohm speaker on one side and a 8 ohm on the other? Or even a 15" and a 10" speaker with different power ratings ?

Hook

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HookMoore.com
Allen Moore

Billy Easton · From: Nashville, TN USA

Thanks for the kind words, Wayne. Sorta like the sound of my old Sho Bud. Now if it just played as easily as my Zum......

Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ

Wayne Franco · From: silverdale, WA. USA

When I talked to Gary Walker he mentioned that the JBL was 4 ohm. The BW 1501 will also be 4 ohm so they both will be the same approximate volume. I think the different ohms will just change the volume which is something I would not like.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

For a while I was stacking a pair of EVM-12s on top of a pair of JBL D-130s. Then I did an outdoor gig where I forgot to plug in the JBLs, and I liked the sound better. I think that the difference in sound between the two was just too dramatic.

On our New Years Eve gig, I stacked 12" hemp cone Tone Tubbies on top of those same JBLs, and used a lower powered amp (the Mesa 20/20). It sounded very nice to me, but the room was a cavern so I say the jury's still out.

Seems to me that the best place to judge speakers is outdoors, where you don't get as much interaction with other people's rigs and you don't have to deal with a lot of reflection.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Hook, I defer to the electronics experts here, but I don't think the mismatch matters much with solid state amps. Anyway, I believe the Stereo Steel actually has 2 separate amps [1 for each side] and I don't think either side cares what the other is doing. GD once told me it was OK to use just one speaker and that he does that himself sometimes. My Stereo Steel has separate vol. controls for each side to balance the sound, tho I'm not sure if this is still the case in current production. That would certaintly be a problem balancing speakers if only 1 master vol. is used.

I think the JBL's that GD Walker used at one time were 8 ohms. That was the reason for my comment above. One thing is for sure, Gerry knows his amps and is a pretty savvy electronics guy, so I would trust whatever he says.
Let us know how it works out for you Wayne. JO

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Hook, Jerry's got it right. You can use any speaker or combination of speakers on either side of a stereo amp PROVIDED you do not allow the total load impedance of either side to be less than the amp's rated minimum. They will sound different, of course, but no damage will come of it (electronically, anyway)

Tube amps utilize an output transformer and the minimum impedance might be as high as 16 ohms or as low as 4 ohms (older amps have different transformer taps for different load impedances). Virtually all solid state amps are designed to handle a 4 ohm load, some can handle 2 ohms. Check your amp's documentation or back panel labels to be sure. ANY amp will prove unreliable and maybe even expensive if you do not respect its minimum load criteria.

For speakers wired in series the total impedance is the sum of the individual impedances (8 + 8 + 8 = 24); when wired in parallel the total is the reciprocal of the sum of the reciprocals (1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8 = 3/8, the reciprocal being 8/3 or a total of 2.6666_).

I often add an 8 ohm two-way wedge to my Steel Man 500's 4 ohm JBL to improve the high frequency response or just to surround myself with good steel sound - the amp is rated at 300 watts in to 2 ohms so I could add two of the wedges if I wished with no danger to the amp.

Have fun experimenting, you're a grown up now and they're YOUR toys to play with.

[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 23 January 2005 at 12:46 AM.]

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

I'm a firm believer in using two dissimilar speakers. IMHO the Black WIdow and an E-130 are pretty similar sounding. You would have a more dramatic (and potentially sweeter sound) if you swapped one of the JBLs for an EV or a Celestion. The rule I have found is that using two of the same speaker makes your tone more focused, using two dissimilar speakers makes the sound more 'dimensional'. I prefer a thicker, more complex tone, so I use two very dissimilar speakers.

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www.tyack.com

Hook Moore · From: South Charleston,West Virginia

Thanks guys..
Hook

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HookMoore.com
Allen Moore

[This message was edited by Hook Moore on 23 January 2005 at 08:37 AM.]

Wayne Franco · From: silverdale, WA. USA

That makes sense to me Dan. I recall that Gary Walker said he thought BW nailed the JBL sound pretty good. I just happen to have an Eclipse speaker in my old Evans amp. I could simply swap that one out and try it for free. Gee, what a great thought. And I could try my JBL in the Evans.

Would you go so far as to suggest I try them out of phase with each other?

Edited to reveal the correct speaker in the Evans amp

[This message was edited by W Franco on 25 January 2005 at 06:19 AM.]

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

For a couple of years in Blueground Undergrass I used a Peavy 1-15 cab on my right side and a 1-12 cab on my left, both with Black Widows. My reasoning was to keep from blowing the drummer away as the left side speaker often ended up on his riser or tucked up under his cymbals. I really liked the tonal spectrum from the different responses.

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

T. C. Furlong · From: Lake County, Illinois, USA

I have been experimenting with a 12" and a 15" also. My goal was to see if one "filled in" the missing tonal stuff for the other. I used a D-130 in a tiny cabinet and a D-120 in a large cabinet. It sounded amazing. I got the idea from reading about Redd Volkeart's Twin with a JBL and an EV.

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