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Topic: pickup swap advice for "Active" Volume pedal? |
Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2004 7:52 am |
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I can't remember which was which:
Some of the Lawrence pickups are not intended for use with a Hilton or Goodrich LDR volume pedal. Has anybody done a test-drive with these pedals and assorted pickups?
I think is was the 710s that are not meant for these Volume pedals, and that the 910 was designed for them, but I recall somebody mentioning that he really didn't like the sound of the 910s with a potless volume pedal.
Are the XR-16s acceptable for these? Alternately, what could I swap to from a GL 10-1 to get a brighter sound... more string separation and bite?
I'm considering single coils, but RF is a problem in a lot of places around here... |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 21 Jul 2004 8:40 am
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I use the Hilton with my lawrence 710's and it works great.
Bob |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 21 Jul 2004 9:04 am
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| Nicholas, maybe I can help you with your questions. I have many of the Hall of Fame Steel Players using both the pickups you mentioned with my pedals. Many of the top Nashville shows use the pickups you mentioned with my pedals. Any kind of pickup needs to see high impedance, and most of the active pedals on the market today, have input impedances that are very high, like a meg. ohms. This is GOOD! If a pickup, of any kind, sees low impedance, high end frequency is rolled off. To prove my point, all the inputs on amplifiers like, Fender and Peavey, are high impedance inputs. None of these inputs are really low impedance in the range of 0 to 500K ohms. A particular person, for motives un-known has been spreading grape vine rumors that certain pickups need a certain load, that "only" a 500K pot pedal can give this proper load. What makes this so ridiculous, is the fact that you can have anywhere from 0 ohms to 500K ohms, depending where a 500K pot pedal is in movement. So what number between 0 and 500K is the best number? With an active pedal that is pre-amped, the impedance always stays the same--high, and high is good . Your tone does not change, because impedance does not change. Why do you think Mike Brown and Peavey suggest you use the Peavey 3 cord hookup method? So your pickup will see the high impedance of the pre-amp in their amplifier, insead of first seeing a tone sucking pot pedal. What is interesting, is the person spreading these un-true rumors will always try and give you a snow job when you ask a simple question. When questioned, he always launches into complex theory concerning eddy currents,hysteresis,henrys,inductance, and coil capacitance,and other complex coil theory he knows you know nothing about. His purpose is to give you a snow job. If you talk to a person who does this to you, you know you have the person spreading the grape vine rumors. I have no idea what this person's motives are, but I do know one thing, he needs to quit drinking. I advise looking at all pickup manufacturer's products. I hear a lot of good talk about the new Wallace pickups. You should check these out. To me, single coils sound the best, but I have heard some great sounding humbucking pickups. The pickups you mentioned are great sounding pickups. Yes, RF and noise will always be a problem with single coil pickups, so it boils down to a trade off,noise or sound quality. Let your ear be your guide. [This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 21 July 2004 at 10:06 AM.] |
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Bill cole
From:
Cheektowaga, New York, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2004 9:09 am
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| I use only Lawrence pickups LXR16-12 The Hilton works great with it |
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Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2004 9:53 am
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Thanks everyone.
I don't have a Hilton, though I have no doubt they are great gear; an LDR came up used (but new in box) for a price I couldn't say no to 
Would the situation with the Hilton be the same for the LDR in terms of applicability to the same pickup options? I assume the input/output characteristics are similar in terms of impedance etc...
Thanks again folks. |
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John Daugherty
From:
Rolla, Missouri, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2004 3:24 pm
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Keith Hilton is telling it like it is. The HI-IMPEDANCE input on his pedals are just what the doctor ordered to use with a variety of pickups.
In 1990 BH (Before Hilton), Steelers were buying preamps to put between the pickup and the pedal. The Hilton pedal has the HI-Z preamp built into the pedal.
GOOD GOING KEITH. I'll be down to see you one of these days. Hopefully, soon. .... JD |
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Hook Moore
From:
South Charleston,West Virginia
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Posted 21 Jul 2004 4:31 pm
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Nicholas, I use BL-710`s with the LDR and its great. No problems. Though I know the Hilton pedal is great, the LDR is also great.
Hook
------------------
HookMoore.com
Allen Moore
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 21 Jul 2004 4:40 pm
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| Nicholas, I would assume the Goodrich LDR pedal has a pre-amp in it. If it did not have a pre-amp, you would know right off, because it would sound like the old light beam pedals used to sound. By that I mean all your highs would be gone. The old light beam pedals were much worse than pot pedals at sucking tone. I really don't know what kind of pre-amp Goodrich has in their pedal. I would assume it is some kind of discrete individual transistors, because that is what is in most of their devices. My pedal uses IC chips-Integrated Circuits-8 pin and 16 pin chips. The Goodrich-LDR means "Light Dependant Resistor", which is the same thing that turns on a street light, and was the same electronic part that was in the old light beam pedals of the early 1960's. My pedal operates on a totally different theory I invented, infrared voltage. I recently noticed Goodrich is now advertising 3 controls on their pedals. These are the same controls I came out with. No one ever had an on-off point control on a pedal before my invention. No one ever had a signal strength control on a volume pedal before my invention. There have been tone controls on pedals in the past. Goodrich has copied my 3 controls. I don't copy other people's work and I don't plan on coming in, in 2nd place. John, it is good to hear from you. This coming Sunday would be a good time to come down. Terry Bethel is having his yearly steel guitar show at the Baldknobber's Theater. It is always a great show. [This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 21 July 2004 at 05:43 PM.] |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 21 Jul 2004 4:56 pm
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| Keith is correct here. Amplified pedals should work well with just about any pickup. Pot pedals, on the other hand, work very well with low impedance pickups (especially single-coils), but not as well with high-impedance pickups. I usually like to point out that nobody complained about pot pedals affecting their tone until after the the introduction of high-impedance pickups! |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 21 Jul 2004 7:39 pm
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| Good to hear from you Donny. Hartley Peavey complained to me several years ago about steel guitarist using tone sucking pot pedals. Does Hartley Peavey count? |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 21 Jul 2004 8:00 pm
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Nicholas I have a BL710 and 910 on my new Zum and they sound fabulous - I'm currently using a LDR pedal and haven't had the pleasure of trying out a Hilton yet - so they probably sound even better with one of them. I have GL E66 and 10-1 on my MCI and they sound great as well.
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 22 Jul 2004 7:48 am
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Let me start here by making some declarations...
Keith, you make a fine pedal (I own one).
Hartley, you make a fine amp (I own one).
Pots (in and of themselves) don't affect tone.
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| Hartley Peavey complained to me several years ago about steel guitarist using tone sucking pot pedals. Does Hartley Peavey count? |
I know some people think I'm just another old guy who can't hear and can't play, either. Be that as it may, I do try to be observant, and formulate my own opinions. I have had heated conversations with some players about pots "robbing tone", "stealing highs", "loading down the pickup", etc.. I try to be nice. I listen for awhile, and then I ask them some questions...
"What are those little round knobs on a Tele or a Strat are fastened to?"
"Do they seem have a problem with lack of tone or highs?"
"What kind of pedal did Brumley use when he was with Buck Owens?"
"Did his guitar lack highs?"
"What kind of pedal did Emmons use on Another Bridge To Burn?"
"Was that lacking in highs?"
Usually, that's the end of the conversation. Then they start thinking on their own. No, I can't play much, but I sure am good at making people think! 
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 22 Jul 2004 8:31 am
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| Donny you are a good man. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 22 Jul 2004 8:44 am
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I used a BL-712 (the 12-string version of the 710) on my Fessy with a Hilton. It sounded too bright and brittle; however, this was easily adjusted for with the tone control on the bottom of the Hilton. Because of that tone control, I would think you could use any pickup ever made and any guitar ever made with the Hilton. I don't know if other brands of active pedals have a tone control.
In a sense Donny is right. I only noticed my previous pot pedal had poor highs at low volumes at home. At moderate to high volumes any difference is within the range of adjustments with amp EQ controls. I am pretty sure that Brumley and Emmons were playing at moderate to high volumes on those sessions Donny refers to. The improvement provided by an active pedal is that you have the same tone balance at all volumes. |
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