10" Speaker for Princeton Reverb

Shaan Shirazi · Post by **Shaan Shirazi** » 24 Nov 2003 11:01 am

The stock speaker in my mid 70's PRV does not have the headroom I want. The PRV will be used for recording Telecaster and I want it to be as clean as can be. I've looked at Weber speakers and they seem pretty good. Any suggestions from the audiophiles that are here in abundance?

Some Alnico vs. Ceramic insight would be much appreciated too, thanks!

Shaan

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The Pickin' Paniolo
[This message was edited by Shaan Shirazi on 24 November 2003 at 02:19 PM.]

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 24 Nov 2003 12:34 pm

Shaan--I am a Weberholic. but the only speaker I know is the Weber California ceramic with paper dust cap. I've been using alternately a cab w/ a 15" and acab with a 12" driven by various amps. I just bought a pair of 10"s to put in a cab I've got but I won't be able to install them for a few days. There are some other Weber choices for the power output of the Princeton but the Cali's are the choice for smooth clean. I like them a whole lot. But just so you know, I'm not experienced enough to really know how they compare with other speakers. FWIW, they are often compared with JBL's although I've read other people disagree with that reference. I can't tell you anything about alnico except that the Cali alnico costs a whole lot more than the ceramic.
I have found doing business with Weber to be a pleasure.

Shaan Shirazi · Post by **Shaan Shirazi** » 24 Nov 2003 12:42 pm

Thanks for the Weber info, I checked back at the Weber site and it was the Cali that I wanted. Nice prices too, makes it easy to give them a shot.

I thought I was in Electronics when I posted this, sorry for putting it in Pedal Steel, please feel free to move it

Shaan

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The Pickin' Paniolo

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 Nov 2003 12:53 pm

The stock speaker in my mid 70's PV...

Are you talking about a Peavey, or a Princeton? If it's a Princeton Reverb, it may be the amp, and not the speaker that's lacking headroom! With only 12 watts, your headroom will be minimal, no matter what speaker you use. But...you asked, so here's my ideas.

The Celestion "Tube 10" speaker might give you a little boost over te stock one. The Weber AlNiCo 10V will provide even more sound from that little amp. It's also available with a ceramic magnet if you want maximum volume with a slight sacrifice in the "classic" tube sound. For steel, I'd go the ceramic route, as the low end would be better.

Generally, speakers with larger voice coils and larger magnets give the most efficiency (output) in small amps.

Post by **b0b** » 24 Nov 2003 2:33 pm

Moved to 'Electronics' section.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 25 Nov 2003 8:44 am

My Princeton Reverb has been modified to use a 12" speaker, which sounds really good. When I bought it, (Ebay) I thought I was getting a fairly original PR, but when it arrived, I found it had been totally rewired, and a second channel added, like a Deluxe Reverb. The tremolo was eliminated and the reverb works for both channels. The controls for the second channel are on the back, so the front still looks original. A gain control was added, so one channel can be set "dirty" and the other set "clean". The input volume control has a push/pull switch that changes channels.

I was a little disappointed at first, until I played through it. WOW, whoever did the mods knew what they were doing. This amp sounds fantastic, it is really quiet, and the reverb is one of the best I ever heard.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 25 Nov 2003 1:07 pm

I was thinking about this today but Darvin beat me to it--you might want to consider a 12" speaker. Also--and this would require consultation with someone who knows what's what (not me)--I took a Deluxe Reverb and changed the tubes to 6L6 and replaced the rectifier tube with a Weber copper cap solid state rectifier. And put a Weber Cali in. All these things sound great and the end result is some increased headroom. And these things might apply as well to the Princeton.
Darvin--does the 12" speaker sit in there comfortably or does it look like a tight fit? Does it appear that a speaker with an especially large magnet might not fit around a tube or transformer?[This message was edited by Jon Light on 25 November 2003 at 01:08 PM.]

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 25 Nov 2003 1:42 pm

I own a Fender Deluxe Reverb with a Weber Cali that sounds excellent (I'm thinking of selling this amp so if interested contact me). The Cali is a great choice for big, clean tone. I have a friend that bought one for his older Princeton Reverb (a 10) after hearing my amp but haven't heard it in the Princeton.

KENNY KRUPNICK · Post by **KENNY KRUPNICK** » 25 Nov 2003 11:12 pm

J B L. I need not say anymore.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 26 Nov 2003 7:21 pm

Jon, the 12" speaker fits OK but it is pretty tight. A speaker with a large magnet (such as a Black Widow) will not fit the way it is, but the hole in the baffle could be moved over a little and I think most speakers would fit. A 15" speaker in a Twin has to be offset to fit also.

Here's what it looks like, a larger magnet would need to fit between the two transformers.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 27 Nov 2003 5:59 am

Thanks Darvin. I mentioned it because I thought I remembered reading about this issue. And then, one further caveat would be to be sure that the particular vintage of Fender amp has the 'floating baffle' as opposed to a glued in one. If one plans to change the baffle (to offset the speaker in a situation like the installation of an oversized speaker), a glued in baffle will make the job difficult and discouraging. I know of one person who spent a bunch on a D130F to put in a later SF Twin only to find it next to impossible to not destroy the cabinet in the process. Bummer.

Mike Simpson · Post by **Mike Simpson** » 28 Nov 2003 9:21 pm

I have a 75 Princeton Reverb that had a 12" black widow in it when I bought it. I took it out and replaced it with a Fender labeled Eminence speaker with a ceramic magnet, it weighs less and is smoother. The Black widow was too bright and clean for me.

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Big Mike
http://www.blueswizards.net

David Rich · Post by **David Rich** » 1 Dec 2003 6:55 am

I've heard good reports of installing a 12" speaker in the 10" hole without cutting a larger hole. There is a little overhang, but not as much as you might think. Anyone have experiences with doing this?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 9 Dec 2003 5:56 pm

Yeah...what you would wind up with would be something that sounds a little better than the stock speaker, but not quite as good as a 12" speaker done right (with a new baffle). Also, keep in mind that with some speakers, the speaker's suspension ring might contact the baffle when playing loud chords, and this would lead a rattling sound...and eventually to a premature speaker failure.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 9 Dec 2003 8:46 pm

Red Rhodes used to hotrod princetons, putting a JBL 12" (or SRO) and switching the output tubes to 6L6 or 6550s, with new transformers and all sorts of other mods. They were real wolves in sheeps clothing. Some people look at them as the model for the Mesa Boogie.

Any else remember seeing these around LA?

Tyler Macy · Post by **Tyler Macy** » 13 Dec 2003 9:41 pm

JBL is indeed the way to go. I put a D120F in my '69 PR, and I it is absolutely fantastic. Much better than previous 10"ers I had tried, including a couple Webers.

[This message was edited by Tyler Macy on 13 December 2003 at 09:41 PM.]

Tyler Macy · Post by **Tyler Macy** » 13 Dec 2003 9:43 pm

Plus the aluminum dome lets people know you mean business...

David Friedlander · Post by **David Friedlander** » 13 Dec 2003 11:46 pm

Tyler, is that a 12" JBL?

Tyler Macy · Post by **Tyler Macy** » 13 Dec 2003 11:54 pm

Yes, it is a D120F. The 10" equivalent was the D110F.

It is a very tight fit. The frame touches the reverb pan, and one of the "spokes" clears the output tranny by about 4 mm.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 15 Dec 2003 8:51 am

Tyler, isn't that a '68 and not a '69? I've got it's exact twin right here (minus the JBL). I believe that the grill cloth "drip edge" was only in '68, but perhaps it leaked over into '69.

Brad Sarno

Tyler Macy · Post by **Tyler Macy** » 15 Dec 2003 6:27 pm

It's a '69.

The drip edge was around from late '67 to mid '69. Actually, the odd thing about my PR is the black lines on the face plate. Normally, they are only on the EARLIEST of silverface amps (67-early '68).

Joe E · Post by **Joe E** » 18 Dec 2003 10:46 am

Howdy All,

I don't get over here much any more. Hope it's ok to chime in!

I had a blackface Princeton Reverb that I changed to a 12" speaker. Best thing I ever did for that amp. It went from being a pracctice amp to "real" amp. I orignally used a JBL which was bright and clean. Absolutely no complaints. Later I sold the JBL (Dummy) and used a Source (Pyle Pro) speaker that sounded great too. Just not as Hi-fi. To me its all about tone vs Hi-fi. It's got to sound good but sound believable too. And the Fidelity makes it sound beleivable to me.

I sold it before getting into slide and steel, so no comments on how it would work there. But for guitar it was killer. Easilly compared to my stock Deluxe...until I put a JBL in the deluxe! he he he.

Per the original post...that would be a great recording combination for the Tele, and in fact that is what mine was used for the most. It would break up ever so slightly with the tele. All though it sounded clean, you could tell it was adding the harmonic distortion, that really fattens it up. There is kind of a fine line before the tubes start sounding distorted as opposed to colored.

Joe

Shaan Shirazi · Post by **Shaan Shirazi** » 23 Dec 2003 7:03 am

Well, in case anyone's interested, I ordered a Weber California yesterday as my Christmas present to myself.

Here's a hot rodded PRV on e-bay with a 12 inch D120F speaker in the Dallas area
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2366529606&category=38074

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The Pickin' Paniolo

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 23 Dec 2003 11:03 am

Glad I'm not the only one who likes these little gems. I still have a 10" in mine, but might upgrade to a 12". In its current configuration, it has an awsome sweetspot where it starts to break up nice and bluesy when pushed. I would be afraid that the 12" might make it too clean. Am I right?

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 23 Dec 2003 1:08 pm

Might not change the spot on the dial where the sweet spot lives but it might make the sweet spot a bunch louder---especially with an efficient speaker. (It's certainly an inexact science trying to attribute how much of the tone is tube breakup, how much is speaker).[This message was edited by Jon Light on 23 December 2003 at 01:10 PM.]