Black Widow Speakers

Bob Jackson · Post by **Bob Jackson** » 8 Dec 2003 6:08 pm

Has anyone had experience with changeing the shallow basket speaker with the deep basket speakers? Did it change the sound in any way etc.. I have both and am thinking of changeing the shallow one for the deep one in my amp. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks
Bob Jackson
MSA CLASSIC S10

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 8 Dec 2003 8:46 pm

Yes Bob, I have been swapping them back and forth for some time..I like either one...you will definitely find more
bottom end on the new shallow baskets.
I seem to notice a more balanced sound, low to high on the deeper baskets.
I think most people say that they like the SB's better...I still haven't decided.
Keep in mind the good folks at Peavey use the SB's exclusively for steel guitar applications now.

[This message was edited by Jerry Overstreet on 08 December 2003 at 08:51 PM.]

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 9 Dec 2003 12:59 pm

I have both, but lately prefer the 1502 DT, thats a deep basket with paper or kevlar, (not sure) dust cover, all are 4 ohms, the 1502 DT is a bass speaker, seems to smooth out the highs with less harshness, my reissue has 1501 shallow basket with non aluminun dust cover and I like that, could it be in the dust cover?

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 11 Dec 2003 4:59 am

I used my 1501DT-4ohm for years just loved that speaker. It rubs a little on the voice coil so I stopped using it and went with the EV15L with my Webb. I had it reconed to 4ohms with a chrome dome, smooth but to much bass.

Should anyone want to off load a 1501DT-4ohm basket please contact me.

Larry Behm
503-722-7562

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 15 Dec 2003 10:58 am

Jim, is this true? The 1501 SB's have a paper cap now? Is it only available
that way and if so, when did this start? Mike?

Murnel Babineaux · Post by **Murnel Babineaux** » 15 Dec 2003 11:40 am

Jim,

The 1502-4 is a linear cone design stemming from the voice coil.

The 1501-4 is a curvilinear design, much like the JBL Series of speakers.

The sound difference is obvious. 1502's frequency response is focused on low end and high end with a dip in the midrange.

1501's curvilinear design is focused around the mid-low-mid and has superb high frequency response. i.e., voiced for the pedal steel guitar.

1501-4's are made with the aluminum cap around the voice coil.

MB

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 16 Dec 2003 2:12 am

Jerry, the 1501 I have is old, it has the spider web design on the magnet, someone on the forum specified they were looking for this speaker type, and nothing else would do, when I found this one I bought it to see why it was so sought after, I have a push pull that can sound thin at times and this type of speaker seems to add mids and warmth, I'm thinking this speaker is not made this way anymore.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 16 Dec 2003 4:15 am

OK Jim, thanks for the clarification...

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 16 Dec 2003 9:21 am

Wow, thats interesting. I wound up with an old spider-web BW too. It ended up in my Fender Twin because it sounded best there. It had a thicker and richer sound than the newer ones. Maybe age and years of breaking in? I dont know, when I tap on the paper it feels like it's a different density than the newer cones. I still like the newer ones in some other amps, they sound more clear and hi-fi. There is something very cool though about that old spider web one. I wonder what it is.

Brad Sarno

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 16 Dec 2003 2:43 pm

Widder Update: Rebasketting a 1501 with an "Old magnet".

I recently replaced the old original basket which the cone had become unglued from the basket. I did notice that it had been "rubbing" slightly too.

I found that the new basket rubbed, or rather "scraped" from any angle, all the way around. ( totally clean slot/no foam disintegration) Further I found that it was rubbing right above the "connection" area of the coil, and found a slight "dimple" underneath it.

The Peavey Authed Repair guy here sent it back, and will get another one.

Appearantly he said that he tried another tested coil with a torn speaker, and it didn't hit the sides of the slot.

Brad or Murnel, maybe you can help with the specificata to wit:

Is there a difference in the slot specifications in the old rounded "Focused Field" magnets on the Older 1501s"?

What is it in Thousanths?

I'm guessing that it might have been increased ever so slightly to accommodate small otherwise tolerable irregularities in replacement baskets?

Thanks/ I'll be finding out for sure thursday nite if another basket will indeed go in without rubbing, and the Tech here in Portland is due to get my business due to his helpfulness. If not,I'll just slap the Old Old one in and play the weekend.

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 16 December 2003 at 11:56 PM.]

Richard Tipple · Post by **Richard Tipple** » 18 Dec 2003 9:14 pm

Larry
a trick I have used for years for rubbing baskets is to lay the amp face down ,loosen the three magnet bolts .
Have the amp up & running at the time & give the old 10th string a thump.
If the coil is rubbing ,,you will hear it!!
I then very carefully move the magnet slightly,,I mean slightly & sometimes this will correct the coil rubbing.
Its very hard for me to replace a basket & get it ligned up perfectly without doing this.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 19 Dec 2003 12:37 am

That's the technique I tried and couldn't get the new one to stop scraping. I finally put the old one I'd repaired back in and it rubbed only slightly after finding the "best spot".

I'd still like to know if there was a change in the slot size after the 70s. And if so, what it was in inches, mms, or fractions.

The new basket from Peavey is in at the techs here and he's putting the magnet on it about 1000hrs.

I'll know by 11.

EJL

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 19 Dec 2003 12:27 pm

I'm having the same problem as Eric, I bought a new basket from a forumite, and no matter where I turn or tweak the magnet, the coil rubs. The magnet has no markings, but it is not the old spider web design that used flat head bolts, this one has socket head capscrews. The old cone has no coil rub but it has a large repaired tear and rattles when I push it pretty hard. The coil on the new basket seems to be wound from thicker wire, and the coil is a little taller than on the old basket.

I like the sound of the Black Widows, but if there are different versions of magnets and baskets it makes it kind of hard to replace baskets.

------------------
Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Richard Tipple · Post by **Richard Tipple** » 19 Dec 2003 1:39 pm

Darvin & Eric
One more thing you might check is the coil itself for roundness, could be its out of round but not detectable with the eye.
Heat can effect the roundness of the coil.
One can use a michrometer to check this or you can measure across the coil with a very precise measuring tool of some kind.
Also check for warping of the coil.
Lay a flat metal ruler across the coil & check to make sure the coil itself is not warped. Check the measurement from the ruler to the basket all the way around at 1" increments.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 19 Dec 2003 1:44 pm

Richard, I already tried both of your suggestions, I checked the diameter with digital calipers, and it checked round within around .010, which I thought was pretty good. I didn't measure from the coil to the mounting face, but sighting across the top of the coil, it looked really flat.

------------------
Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 19 Dec 2003 3:43 pm

Two new baskets, both rubbed.

This one was put together by the peavey tech. I told him that since it isn't "Scraping" that I'd take it and try a new magnet next. No charge. I figure it cost peavey the price of a new basket and 20$ shipping.

My PA man told me that unless I put a new speaker in there that I could forget about miking my 500. He offered to provide the JBL tonite. I'll make a deal with him for it.

A speaker that "Rubs ever so slightly" belongs in the garbage can, pure an simple.

I wish it were otherwise.

Other than trying to get an "old style basket" or try yet another good basket on Peavey's dime. I'm going to go out on a limb and order a NEW magnet. I'll then have the tech install it as well, and if it rubs, "ever so slightly" it's all going back. I don't need to deal with these kind of irregularities or lack of information.

Why such a simple thing is such a pain in the butt is beyond me. Maybe I'll like the JBL.

I used to like Black Widows....

The one I replaced ran for 24 years.

EJL

The only answer or suggestion that either Myself or Mr W are going to find helpful is the difference in the Old and the NEW magnet slot width in thousanths of an inch or tenths of a mm. Should be easy enough to measure. I'll take 5 minutes and do it myself one of these days if I don't like the JBL.

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 19 Dec 2003 4:35 pm

bore it .020" over and put in new rings....oops...wrong forum

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 19 Dec 2003 6:33 pm

Ya know JM if it were take apartable I'd do exactly that. I deal with Harley stuff all the time. It's just not "glued together" and has definite specs. I got books full of them.

If I get that JBL in there and like it tonite I'm at least gonna measure the slot of the old one. Maybe someone's got a newer one they can similarly measure. We'll see.

I just find the lack of specs, and common aceptance of "buzzing speakers" to me a bit surprising.

BTW I checked my Nvl 400 with a magnet 12 yrs newer, and it doesn't "rub" in the least/.

We'll see.

Full of Hope.

EJL

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 20 Dec 2003 2:08 am

Well, 8 ohm and all, I really like the JBL. They sure look like they're built a lot better, and have an aluminum dome, and are not "deep" at all. I lose a little volume, but not as much as I thought.

I'll just eventually get a new magnet and it'll work out.

It always seems to.

EJL