What is the deal with Peaveys?

Brian Davis · Post by **Brian Davis** » 18 Feb 2003 2:39 pm

Here's a newbie question. I've been playing guitar for a little while and picked up the steel only about a year and a half ago, but...what is the affinity for Peaveys about within the PSG community? As a guitar player I've always preferred the warm, tube sound of an old Fender. I must admit, though, that I've never played through a 1000. Just wondering why they're so popular...

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www.floorbirds.com

Richard Bass · Post by **Richard Bass** » 18 Feb 2003 2:44 pm

Quality and SERVICE, SERVICE, SERVICE.
Richard

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 18 Feb 2003 4:48 pm

Shhhhhhh........Dont let the rest of the six string world know that they dont suck!! Mums the word OK?

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Brian Davis · Post by **Brian Davis** » 18 Feb 2003 5:25 pm

Hey guys,
I had heard that Fender's answer to the PSG was the Vibrosonic Reverb...pretty much the same as a Twin. My buddy's got a nice silverface one with a factory 15" JBL. Anyone ever use one of these?

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www.floorbirds.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 18 Feb 2003 5:37 pm

Well I guess there's many reasons why Peavey is popular among steelers. Here's the most important two, IMHO. First, they have made a lot of steel amps! They, at least try to please this small group of players. Fender??? How many steel amps did Fender ever make??? Well, they made one. That's it...JUST ONE! (Fender didn't ever want to produce anything that they couldn't sell at least 1,267,334 of.) That's why they dropped Hawaiian steels, and steel amps, and volume pedals, and pedal steels, and volume-tone pedals, etc., etc., etc.. (As Yul would say.) If it weren't for the success of the Tele and the Strat, they'd probably have folded by now.

Secondly, Peavey stuff is generally very reliable, and reasonably priced (compared to Fender). Oh yes, they have a few problems, like those Molex reverb connectors (that anybody can fix)...and those crappy plastic input jacks (that nobody can fix). Other than that, their SMT design is quite rugged. And...they make their own speakers!

Yeah, sure, 35 years ago...Fender was king of amps! But for the past 25 years, (aside from a very few successful new products), all they've done is rest on their laurels.

(They didn't even have the smarts to buy some tube manufacturing equipment.)

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 18 Feb 2003 5:39 pm

It's a tube thing. If you like that sound, nothing beats a Twin Reverb, preferably a blackface with the factory caps replaced with upgraded ones. Ricky Davis and Buddy Cage are 2 who play thru twins. I've got a '65 reissue I love. Cage actually uses his as a preamp, then to a monster macintosh power amp for juice.

JB

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
Mullen Royal Precision D-10 8 & 5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 18 Feb 2003 6:07 pm

Brian,
IMHO
Amen to all the above. I like a clean powerful amp for steel. The C6 tunings with the really low notes, will make most amps jump off the floor.

The Fender Twin can satisfy both the Tele/Strat player and the steel player.

PV builds reliable, powerful, clean amps. Effects processors can add all the color when needed.

I hope this helps.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 18 Feb 2003 6:22 pm

Peaveys are very reliable. They also take the abuse that will occur from bouncing them up and down the road. If they weren't reliable, then all those Nashville cats wouldn't run through them. I do like tube amps, but I have never had problems with Peaveys, and I can't say that about my 65 reissue or other Fenders I had before that. I sent my Twin to the factory about two months ago cause it kept spitting and sputtering. It would go in the local shop, come back and work a month or so and then it was back to the same old problem. Cold solder joints I believe. Get this : It came back from Fender and they said nothing was wrong. Needed new tubes. Funny I had just retubed it before it left. Fender says tubes are only good for a couple months anymore. That would be another reason for driving a Peavey; no tubes to buy.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 18 Feb 2003 6:57 pm

I had a Vibrosonic Reverb when they were new- it was only marginally better than the Twin with 2-12's. A little easier to control the bass and mid-range but still too heavy, too big and too mid-rangey. When the Nash 400 came out it blew it away! Now you have the Nash 1000 -enjoy it! If you dig a Fender try the Deluxe Reverb for small gigs or practice or recording. They really shine with a 12" extension speaker.

Jeff Peterson · Post by **Jeff Peterson** » 18 Feb 2003 9:22 pm

Yup.[This message was edited by Jeff Peterson on 19 February 2003 at 07:22 AM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 19 Feb 2003 12:08 am

what Donny said !
i got a Nash1000 recently and i'm a happy camper, but for Guitbox i prefer my Twin
now i gotta lug 2 amps around !!!

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Steel what?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 19 Feb 2003 3:14 am

Brian, I too am a big fan of the Twins and played Steel/Tele' thru one for 25 years. Unfortunatley for Fender, Peavey did come on the market and dedicated an engineering budget to a Steel Guitar amp. Here we are many versions later , some heavier, some lighter, some with tone mods..etc..but the bottom line is they were smart enough to place an amp on the market dedicated to the likes of us.

Extremely reliable,lots of clean power with excellent headroom, mid size cabinet ,not to heavy and good tone quality.

Keep one thing in mind, tube amps are great , but...they require maintenance..I don't care who you are. You don't carry around a Fender Twin , Vibrolux or whatever for gig after gig and not replace the tubes and reset the bias. And ddon't forget to tightne all the cabinet screws now and again...That is the nature of tube amps..they start loosing life as soon as you start using them.

Did you ever turn your Twin on and start hearing strange noises, like little tiny electric mixers living inside the amp ? sockets, tubes, cold solder joints blah blah blah..put all that stuff together and you have the need for maintenance.

Jeff mentioned tube amps with 6L6's..he is totally correct. That does not mean that 6L6 amps are not good, they are, their great .But they are not the Cadillac.

I'm sure Peavey was pretty pleased when Buddy Emmons started showing up on the scene with Peavey amps..sorta like George Harrison playing a Gretsch. It was clear we all needed one..and right away...

At the end of the day..if your tone and sound is with the Fender amps..then you need to look no further..

I still use Fender tube amps for the Tele'.

tp

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 19 February 2003 at 03:15 AM.]

Earl Foote · Post by **Earl Foote** » 19 Feb 2003 4:06 am

They are EL-84s Jeff.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 19 Feb 2003 7:53 am

If you want the tube sound with a Peavey, try their "Tube Sweetner".

Erv[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 19 February 2003 at 07:54 AM.]

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 19 Feb 2003 9:34 am

Ok, here is the Peavey side of the story.............there is always two sides, you know.

I work pretty closely with Hartley Peavey on the steel guitar products and since I do play and have an interest in the steel guitar, I've had many conversations with "HP" about our involvement in the steel guitar community. To make a long story short, it started when Julian Tharpe(who lived in Alabama) visited plant 1(which was the whole company. He wanted Hartley to build an amp that would faithfully reproduce the steel when he laid the strings on the fretboard like a "wet noodle". After several attempts, HP finally worked the amp design out that would withstand the abuse, however the JBL speaker was the weak link at the point but that is another whole story. So, this is where it began and if you have ever met a person that refuses to give up, you get an idea about Hartley Peavey's traits.

The "tube vs. solid state" discussion will continue until after you and I are dead and gone. The characteristics related with tube amps are just something that you need to know about before you consider a purchase. I would guess that if Peavey or Fender or whatever company creates a way around "tube problems" in the future, there is always going to be players who believe that the "old amps are better". I guarantee it. Tube amps are no trick to design and there are few variations from the original design. How many ways can one design a tube amp? And I'll bet that Leo Fender encountered the same problems and comments that tube amp manufacturers encounter today, ie; "yeah, but it's too heavy", etc.. But, back then tube amps were new technology and it was a "given" that these products were heavy because they were the "first". On the other hand, maybe there were no complaints and musicians didn't know any different.

I love Donny's comments concerning Peavey steel amps! I think that Donny and myself have similar views on this, ie; Fender didn't make money by building steels or steel amps. I'll state again, Fender makes a good product, but I would guess that no profit was made from manufacturing steel amps and guitars. I don't know this as fact, but I bet it's a pretty good guess. I'll also state this, I own two Tele's(Amer.Standard and '62 reissue), a Jazz Bass(1962) and a Vibrolux Silverface as well as other brands of amps and guitars. They are all good products. But, I guess that Fender can pay their employees a salary and overhead on just a few popular products. How many 'new' products have they designed and manufactured in the last 30 years that carry this type of success? How many Strat models can you make? Here's some more insight into the "Artist Strat Series". One highly acclaimed Fender artist who has a custom Strat in his name revealed to me that "Fender doesn't push my product enough to make me any money"..............true story. My point is that a company cannot "rest on their laurels" very long and remain competitive. But they can raise their prices on existing "custom" models. Oh yeah, just how much will a musician pay for an amp before it cuts into his profit?

My intent is too "not" turn my post into a *#%!@> match, but to provide a different view. Also, I post here "not" for pro Peavey posts to follow mine, as all views are welcome. I have a close musician friend who I (jokingly) label a "Fenderhead". In other words, he views them as the Holy Grail of amps. But, I try to look at pros and cons
and present them in a way that(hopefully)makes a customer "think" of what his/her money is being forked over for. If you average $100.00 per gig, would you purchase a high dollar amp(that the general public couldn't tell the audible difference between it and another amp sitting beside it), and play 15 gigs or more before it is paid for? I realize that we all have to "invest" money in gear before we can make money and I have invested many times(musicians are never satisfied). I also realize that you have to please yourself and if a tube amp pleases your ears................great! But, the Nashville 1000 pleases mine and many other players........great! Aside from the Nashville 400, the Nashville 1000 has been the second best selling steel amp in the U.S.. However, the 400 was on the market since 1983. The Nashville 1000 has been on the market since 1999. Again, tube amps are great sounding amps, but they are heavy and are more expensive. Believe me, our engineers know what they are doing and my boss, Hartley Peavey knows the musical marketplace characteristics and I'm sure that the Fender folks do as well. To be quite honest with you, no company will recoup their full investment of a steel amp, but we have been supporting this instrument longer than any other company(including Webb, Evans and Fender). So a lot of R & D has gone into our steel amps and this expense has to be recouped as well. The public never realizes this expense as it is pretty much "written off".

I could go on and on and probably should've stopped a few paragraphs ago, but this is part of our committment. This is my job and I'm glad that I am allowed to share this info.

As always, I can be reached toll free in North America at 1-877-732-8391.
Mike Brown
Peavey Electronics Corporation

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 19 Feb 2003 10:52 am

I own a Fender Twin Reverb and two Peavey Nashville 400's. I am not satisfied with the sound of my PSG's using the Fender Twin. However, my 37 Bakelite Rick sounds heavenly thru the Twin. And lest there be any doubt, there is NOTHING wrong with my Twin Reverb. There is something about PSG's IMO, that just don't match the old Fenders like a Peavey does.

I love the Peaveys hands down over the Twin for all the PSG's I have owned. I realize there are some who prefer the Fender tube amp for PSG. But I would imagine MOST players prefer the Peavey.

A bit of history just might be in order here. The reason NO steel guitar sounds good thru your hi-end home stereo, is because its frequency response is flat! That is, when 99 and 99/!00's percent of steel players use a home stereo amp for their guitars, they insist on altering that "flat" frequency response.

BUT, here is the kicker. The standard designed tone controls simply will NOT alter the response enough to satisfy the overwhelming majority of guitar players. This EVEN includes the best graphic equalizers in the chain!

Audio engineers have known this for over 60 yrs! And years ago, they altered the frequency response of guitar amplifiers accordingly. After exhaustive testing using pro players of the day, they discovered that the frequency around 800 HZ was extremely critical and needed to be boosted (or cut in some cases), but NOT boost/cut the frequencies near this; if players were to be satisfied.

So, amp manufacturers, like Gibson and Fender had a "fixed" boost (or cut) around 800 HZ. And this worked great for years. In addition, they still provided the standard tone controls to allow the player to alter to taste.

Peavey went a step further. They made some of the internal alteration "user adjustable". Thus the reason for the "shift" and "mid" controls. So, now we have an amp where we cannot only alter that critical mid frequency (800HZ center), BUT Peavey allowed the player to shift above and below 800HZ. Plus they permit us to boost; OR cut the level at whatever the shift was set out.

It is HERE where the Peavey excelled as a PSG amplifier. While it is good for regular guitars, it is incredible for PSG's; because of the temendous PSG overtones (specific harmonics). This made the Peavey steel amps particularly alluring to steel players.

And IMO, it is here what made Peavey stand out above ALL the rest when it comes to amplifiers, particularly PSG amps.

So for me its my Twin Reverb for my 37 Rick to get that warm JB sound. But IT is my Peavey Nashville 400's for my Pedal Steel Guitars.

In any case, "whatever floats.........", should be the rule,

God bless Hartley Peavey, and all of you,

carl

Brian Davis · Post by **Brian Davis** » 19 Feb 2003 10:53 am

Wow! Great reply, Mike! And thanks to everyone else above. I agree that ever since Leo sold the farm to CBS that Fender has made some foolish business decisions.

You guys are spot on in that they discontinue models which are deemed unprofitable like steels and such, which is really a shame. I am a big fan of the tube sound, though, and I don't really mind much about the maintenance(a good set of Sovtek tubes should last much much longer than a couple months, though...stay away from those GTs).

However, I believe when it comes to tube amps the simpler the better. It was shortly after CBS took over that they started adding master volumes and pull-switches and all that BS. To me all those bells and whistles amount to nothing more than a drain on your signal. I think they made a lot of mistakes in design in an effort to stay competitive.

I don't know how you guys figured out I had a Twin, but...I recently traded my '79 silverface for a '68 Deluxe Reverb. A lot easier on the back and a nice change in sound with only 22w to work with as opposed to 135w. Not the best steel amp in the world, but I've got my buddy's Vibrosonic not too far away. Also, the Deluxe Reverb was the one amp CBS didn't really mess with from the old Fender line...not until '78 or so.

I guess I too could be called a "Fenderhead", Mike, as I also own a beloved '62 Bassman head with sidekick Reverb unit and a '69 Tele Thinline, but I'm here to tell you there's no way in hell I'd buy anything new from them--amp, guitar, banjo(that's a laugh), or whatever.

I would, though, like to try out a Nashville. I respect what Peavey has done to cater to the PSG community and I want to see exactly what I'm missing. Chicago is not a steeler's paradise, but I wonder if anybody knows a shop where they carry the 400 or 1000. And please don't say Guitar Center.

Thanks again!

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www.floorbirds.com [This message was edited by Brian Davis on 19 February 2003 at 10:58 AM.]

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 19 Feb 2003 11:12 am

I want to say 'thanks' to Peavey, too - they're reliable and they sound great!

I do have a question, though. Why is it that I cannot get an acceptable tone with a Telecaster through my NV400, but I can through my NV1000? I realise that 'tone' is subjective, but I'm hoping that this makes sense to someone!

Before the NV1000, if I had to play steel and guitar on a gig, I'd lean towards using my Evans FET500 - it sounds good with both, but I was always nervous about the Evans' reliability; I'd have the 400 in my trunk just in case! Now I'm happy with the 1000.Is there a fundamental difference between these two Peaveys?

Roger Rettig
PS: I used to have a Vibrasonic - I loved it, but it sure was heavy! I also have a Musicman 115-65 - same problem, and the tubes are going - again!

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 19 Feb 2003 1:47 pm

I have found that an amp that is good for steel guitar will work very well for 6-string lead guitar as well, but not necessarily (usually not) the other way around. On a recent job where we were playing in a large place, I used my Session 500 with my Kramer Striker (Zoom 505). Good thing I had all that power because it did not go to the board as they did not have enough lines. Just my Emmons went to the board via the Session 400 Limited.

I have a Vegas 400 that I leave at the church which gives me the two separate channels to play steel and lead there.

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 19 Feb 2003 2:28 pm

Roger, the difference between the 400 and 1000 amplifiers are obviously the cabinet design and the new digital power amp. We added the "post eq" effects loop and changed the reverb to a two spring type. Both models are all wood designs.

Jim Eller · Post by **Jim Eller** » 19 Feb 2003 2:46 pm

The reason I own eight of 'um (amps), two processors and two PA's is Mike Brown.

He represents what I need in a product. Always willing to help after the sale. Even if you are not the original buyer.

May he never be able to leave Peavey. At least not until I'm gone![This message was edited by Jim Eller on 19 February 2003 at 02:48 PM.]

Jerry Erickson · Post by **Jerry Erickson** » 19 Feb 2003 5:07 pm

Hey Brian,
If you want to find a PV dealer, just go to
their website and punch in your zipcode and it'll find your closest dealer.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Feb 2003 6:00 pm

Well, let me say I'm really not "anti-Fender" (I used Fender amps for years, and still have them), but I really don't think they've "progressed" very much. To their credit, they did come up with one pretty good practice amp (Stage 112SE), and they did finally get in on the "thinline electro-acoustic" craze. But, for a company that large, I'd have expected more (much more, actually), in the past quarter-century. Of course, Gibson and Gretsch are still stuck in "retro-gear", too, and this is precisely why you see so many other brands of electric guitars on the market nowadays...the "big 3" are asleep at the switch.

I'm down to just one Peavey amp now, and it's performing pretty well...I use it on most of my gigs. It's not perfect, mind you, but it's very versatile, reliable, and "practical" for my type of playing. Peavey is now the number-one amp in the steel world, with only Webb and Evans as a distant second and third. I know both Hartley and Mike are pretty proud of that, and I do thank them for their efforts!

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 20 Feb 2003 8:16 am

A few of the dealers that I know of that deal will steel products in Illinois are;
Corson Music in Champaign, IL-(217)352-1477-contact is Dyke who is also a steeler.

Linda's Music-Decatur, IL-(217)428-1409
Mayberry Music-Jonesboro, IL-(618)833-3171
Hix Brothers-Aurora, IL-(630)898-8840
The Music Store-Chicago, IL-(772)478-5425

Hope that this helps you. As always, you may reach me here at Peavey by calling 1-877-732-8391.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 20 Feb 2003 11:26 am

I think Mike is demonstrating why many of us are loyal to Peavey. I don't use Peavey amps exclusively myself, but I know that their products sound good, are very roadworthy, and reasonably priced -- A N D -- if you call Peavey and ask to speak to someone about steel guitar amplification they will know just whom to transfer you to. Try THAT at Fender.

Thanks, Mike -- you do us a great service
Mike is one good reason I LIKE PEAVEY.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro