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Topic: Fender ? |
Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 14 Jan 2001 11:42 am |
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| In another topic,buy and sell I think.Someone mentioned that the early silverface Super Reverb's,the one's with the (aluminum strips) around the grill is the same amp as the earlier blackface.Does anyone know this as fact?I have one of these and sold a 68 Twin,same deal,and they both sound great.Thanks in advance bb |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 14 Jan 2001 12:47 pm
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Hey Bobby,
As far as I know, "Black Face" refers to the cosmetics of the amps, i.e., the black panel, but it also refers to the circuit. The vinatge of circuit can be determined by a code that is inside the cabinet, either printed on the cabinet or on a paper (maybe the tube chart). I believe that a true "Black Face" circuit is coded as "AB763", "63" standing for the year that the circuit was designed. I think the circuit that followed (I gues the first "Silver Face" circuit) is numbered with "68" for 1968. My understanding is that some of the early "Silver Face" amps had the old "Black Face" '63 circuit, and that the early '68 circuits can be converted to the '63 style. For a lot good info on dating and teling exactly what you've got go to the "Fender Amp Field Guide" at: http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/
They give a pretty good breakdown for each model and the different incarnations that they've had, and the FAQ page answers a lot of questions about circuits, "Black Face" vs. "Silver Face", etc.
Hope this helps,
Cliff |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 15 Jan 2001 8:45 am
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I have a '69 Twin, tube chart says AB763, but it was definitely post CBS and had all the dreadful mods. The Black Face conversion was pretty easy though, and this amp sounds great now.
I read in the Fender Amp Field Guide that Fender had lots of AB763 tube charts printed and just went ahead and used them on the later amps until they were gone. My amp was actually AC568 I think. So the tube chart might be an ureliable way to find out what circuit version you have on the '68 and '69 Twins. You really need to take the chassis out and look.
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bterry.home.netcom.com
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 15 Jan 2001 8:11 pm
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| Thanks,for the info Cliff and Bill.So I gather if it's a silver face,even an early one, it still has the mods Cliff spoke of.I've never opened a blackface or silverface, so I wouldn't know what to look for.What where those (Dreadful)mods supposed to do anyway? bb |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Jan 2001 1:08 am
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Bobby, to answer your question, no...they are not the same. I have seen at least 3 different schematics for the old (pre-67) blackfaces, so there's a lot of subtle changes, even in these revered amps. And, the silver faces have even more changes. Most of the changes that were introduced had to do with the way the tubes were biased, and with the plate voltages. (Changes in biasing affect the response or tone of the amp, and changes in plate voltage affect the power output.) The early T/R's were rated @ 60watts, and I think the ratings eventually got up to 135 watts. (I think that the 60 watt number was conservative, and the 135 was a little "optimistic".) And, you can't go by the tube charts either. They have been known to be wrong on many occasions.
For what it's worth, I see very little difference in the sound of any of the T/R's. They all have basically the same sound, and the changes or mods are most noticeable when they are driven near the max. These amps are perfect for the "hard to please" players due to the myriad of easy mods you can do to them. I've had many a player tell me "How'd you get my amp to sound like that?"
It's all in setting the knobs at the right places. You'd be amazed how many settings that most players haven't tried! To the players who say "I never turn my amp all the way up!", I simply say..."Then you'll never know how good it can really sound".[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 19 January 2001 at 04:52 PM.] |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 16 Jan 2001 12:44 pm
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I guess dreadful was not necessarily the right word  , depends on your point of view. I went through this whole SF to BF deal a while back and this thread has a lot of good info from some very knowledgable folks. Bob Metzger and Marty Muse were both particularly helpful.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/000431.html
I made all the SF to BF mods on my amp and in my opinion, the biggest single audible difference was when I cut out the 2000pF caps that were added for "stablility". That really opened my particular amp up. Other than that, I pretty well agree with Donny, if a Twin is setup correctly and in good working order, they all seem to sound pretty good to me. I think Lloyd Green managed to get a pretty good tone out of some SF Twins....
Unless you know what to look for, it's not real obvious which version of the SF circuit you have. The big square cathode resistors to gnd on the power tube sockets is one that is easily visible. That link that Cliff pointed you too is really a good source.
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bterry.home.netcom.com
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