Does music really change over time?

Frank Welsh · From: Upstate New York, USA

In an interview songwriter Felice Bryant said that the intense, passionate and romantic songs from the early Everly Brothers days ("All I Have To Do Is Dream" etc.) and other similar music are not possible today. She said that such romance and passion is only possible in a culture where the innocence of the youth is the norm.

She said that innocence has been lost and that nothing is as intense as virginal passion/first love and the imagination and fantasy that is involved with all of that.

Having "been there", I agree with her.

Contrast the music of the "olden days" with the nasty, angry, cynical, disrespectful crap that passes for music these days, at least among the youth.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

I think it would help to be a "youth" these days before passing judgement on their music.

My folks said pretty much the same thing about the music when I was young. It does not sound to bad looking back on it.

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Well said, Bill. "Crap" is the very word my father used to categorize basically everything I listened to (from blues to rock to soul to r&b to pop to folk to....) and therefore to pretty much me, my life, my culture. It sure knocked him down a bunch of notches in my estimation then and now. Always a shame to see someone succumb to age & bitterness. Has nothing to do with liking what you hear or what's going on. Or choosing to listen to it. But to separate yourself apart from the time continuum and pretend that there was a moment in your life and culture that was the moment of ultimate achievement----for everybody---where time should have stood still---hell, time standing still ==death. To everyone.

All you young folks are now going to sit down and listen to Rudy Vallee. Now THAT was music. But only when he used the megaphone. Not when he started doing that crap with electronical microphones. Once you listen to this you will realize why my time period was the best and yours is crap.

Oh---and by the way---this is going to be a 100% James Brown Christmas today on my cd deck. Still listening to crap and lovin' it.

[This message was edited by Jon Light on 25 December 2006 at 05:33 AM.]

Dave Little · From: Atlanta

And the beat goes on

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

What Bill and Jon Said.

The Charleston and music associated with it was disgusting and "crap" to the adults of the time.

Big Band Jazz was evil and had a terrible influence on kids. More crap.

I'm sure more than a few recall record burnings that included rock of the 60's - The Beatles and stones were both "devil worshipers" and purveyors of crap. Now it's elevator music, the Who (a prototypical punk band) has their music used as theme for a top-rated TV show. Actually, *three* of them, and Led Zep's bass player spends time touring as bass player with a top bluegrass band.

Metallica was the crap of the 80's and destroyer of all music. Now they participate on industry pnaels, and the leader plays a stringbender Tele and listend to country.

"It's just a bunch of noise and screaming" is a description used by "parents" of just about every youth-oriented music of the 20th/21st centuries. Every style ever played has been crap to many parents.

The strange thing is that musicians usually "don't go there". They understand the scenario, and also normally get the whole "rebel" stance of the "new" music, even if they don't play it. It's a rare circumstance to find musicians who refer to "new" music as "crap" - on most guitar/bass/drum/keys forums all musicians may not play newer styles but are normally tolerant and understanding of them.

Frank Welsh · From: Upstate New York, USA

Interesting that the majority of music referred to or offered as links or downloads on this forum are tunes from the past, that is, tunes regarded more or less as classics that represent a golden age for music and culture in general. I really think that most contemporary youth would regard this forum and it's members as hopelessly old fashioned, stuck in the past, and lovers of silly, square, and out-of-date musical styles.

My opinions are based on the urban Northeast and others may have a different take, based on their experiences.

Music must grow and continue as an art form, but much of contemporary music reflects the cynicism of youth and their almost total disconnect from our cultural past. My comments are based on "having been there" back in the '50's and '60's and witnessing the changes that have taken place over time.

Art does reflect culture and changes in musical tastes reflect those changes. Many of those changes are not for the better.

Finally, the changes in popular musical tastes over the generations referred to in some of the posts in this thread do not compare to the changes (for the worse) that we have seen in more recent times. It is not simply a case of the older generation reflexively disaproving of "new" music.

Michael Douchette · From: Gallatin, TN (deceased)

"Time changes eeeeeverything..."

Sing it, now...

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Mikey D...

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

"Finally, the changes in popular musical tastes over the generations referred to in some of the posts in this thread do not compare to the changes (for the worse) that we have seen in more recent times."

It's not identical, but it is a continuing theme. Things may have gotten progressively more "outlandish" over the decades, but youth rebel against established values, including musical ones; so where, say, Hendrix was considered a horrid, unseenly influence by some of OUR parents, kids now would rebel against THAT level of rebellion, as it were. So it appears on the surface to get progressively worse.

Comparatively, though, it's all the same situation.

Good observation on what young people see on the forum. That's exactly what's been pointed out in a RR thread with discussion turning to methods of getting youger players interested in steel. "Moldy Oldies" won't do it.

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I would certainly not call today's youth music crap. It expresses how they feel perfectly. What I am concerned about is the emotions they are expressing. It's not that they lack virginal innocence that's bothering me. The anger and the cynicism that pervades virtually all of their art forms suggests that we may have a large societal problem looming.
But on the other hand they could just be expressing the last emotion that is forbidden to young people these days. With sex not only no longer taboo but an accepted right of passage, anger is the one thing that young people are not supposed to indulge in.

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

after talking to a young guy that is playing in a local band i understand why the so called music of today sounds the way it does, this fella is playing guitar in a band and he does not know a G note from a D note know nothing about chord progression, how could he ?? he doesen't know one cord from another . all he knows is to put his fingers somewhere on the neck and then just distort the hell out of it .
yet this idiot is in a band and calls himself a musican...yea right

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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400
Hilton volume pedal

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Contemporary music reflects comtemporary culture.

Every generation, especially today's generation, believes that they have been released from the inhibitions of their parents.

When in fact, nothing is new, even sex. The only thing different today from the past is that the contempory generation has no guilt regardless of what they do!

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

I think the only thing missing is ther ability to blame lousy singing, stage costumes, and mismatched "Duos" etc with songs that came out of a machine that must have been programmed to crank out the stupidest lyrics ever, etc. etc. on "Production Techniques and Equipment Available At The Time".

My generation was probably the last generation to be able to say that.

Now, they have to admit that they wanted it this way.

Old people never understand young peoples' music.

MXMAS/HNY

EJL

Frank Welsh · From: Upstate New York, USA

Jon,

With reference to your post....its the current generation of young who are "succumbing to..... bitterness." My point was that most of the music of the earlier part of the 20th century was not characterized by the nihilism found in so much contemporary popular music. Much of the older music so many of us here appreciate reflected love, optimism, romance, and the ups and downs of everyday life.

There has indeed been a substantive change in the culture and the music reflect that change.

Opining that some current music is "crap" does not mean that one is old and bitter. Much of contemporary so-called "art" is pure garbage, from paintings to sculpture, and I make no apologies for calling it such.

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

if they call what they are putting out now is music then i need to run out to the airport and record the sound of the 747s taking off . it might just be the next big hit
just add a few words no one can make out and who knows

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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400
Hilton volume pedal

[This message was edited by Calvin Walley on 25 December 2006 at 10:21 AM.]

[This message was edited by Calvin Walley on 25 December 2006 at 11:01 AM.]

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Film maker Penelope Spheeris made 2 documentaries, one about punk and the other about metal, which were called "The decline and fall of western civilization."

Spheeris herself used the title as a joke, but I think she was right.

A while back I went to see a band featuring our fellow forumite Jim Ives. Jim's band was pretty good, but the opening act consisted of a trio where the guitar player (as far as I could tell) has the guitar tuned to an open chord which he strummed at ear shattering volume, and then proceeded to flip his middle fingers on both hands at the audience while the bass player, playing one note over and over, (also at ear shattering volume) shouted the F word at the audience, Each time he shouted the word, he'd say another afterwards. I.E. * you, * your mother, * this place, * this country etc.

I'm sorry, but this reflects something that's really wrong with our society, and it really does indicated a decline of civilization and a decent into barbarity.

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Warning: I have a telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 25 December 2006 at 10:45 AM.]

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

So MP, were they entertaining, other than that?

EJL

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I have been listening to classic Xmas music all week.
Nat King Cole, Frank S. Bing, Andrews Sisters.

It ain't changed a bit.

I have listened to lots of modern xmas music in Tesco and the mall.
It hasn't changed from the music around it's origin,
but sure as heck changed from the earlier stuff.

Sure, music is in a constant state of change.
Each new generation, takes some for the past,
but creates it's own, mostly from whole cloth.

What was, was,
what is, is,
what will be
is just guesswork.

(Edited for large dyslexic moment)

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 25 December 2006 at 11:38 PM.]

Stephan Franck · From: La Crescenta, California, USA

Youth is wasted on the young. We older folks were no exception...

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

quote:
Al Collinsworth Wrote:

Through the years, does music really change (including music played on the steel guitar), or is the perception of change found only in the people that play or listen to music?

If you do believe that music has not changed in the past 50 years, try playing the melody to most of the hit songs now days and have someone identify which song you are playing.

Even the new country songs have little in the way of a distinguishable melody. The chord structure may be still in place, however, that’s about where it ends.

Better still, sit down at your steel and pick out the melody to one of the rapper's hits.

[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 25 December 2006 at 11:24 AM.]

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

I do not call what is played today crap.I do not call it music either.
To me it has changed because there was a time one had to be able to sing on key.Now all they have to do dress like a hooker or like they had just got off a freight train.Sometimes both.IMHO it should be called entertainment.Not music.

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

Shock is always fun to do. Doesn't have much of a cultural lifespan most of the time though. I've certainly done my share of foul language on stage, though I'm not confrontational to the audience with it.

One of my favorite tricks is to create a huge mass of sound with a looper, then underneath it play Hula Blues, or Erik Satie's Gymnopedie No.1

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

music used to tell some kinda story
some happy, some sad... but now what do the kids have ??? no beautiful melodys no harmonys ..just filthy mouths and loud noise ..anyway you look at it, its just sad

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Did Johnny Cash really, really shoot a man in Reno? Would people have judged him entirely on the quality of his music and would his career therefore have had the same trajectory, if he had billed himself as "The Man in Pink" instead of "The Man in Black?" Each generation is convinced that they're the only one not being snowed, that's for sure... Frank Sinatra's use of the martini shaker is not so very different than Ozzy and his use of bats, in my opinion. Alice Cooper had his guillotine, Springsteen had his ballcap, Elvis & his collars, Marilyn Manson lost his eyebrows....

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