Great Singer, or Great Voice?

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 22 Nov 2006 1:59 pm

I agree, Eric - especially regarding Aretha!

Surely the best-ever popular singer. Ray Charles was almost her equal, though.

RR[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 22 November 2006 at 02:00 PM.]

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 22 Nov 2006 2:28 pm

Yes, Linda Ronstadt is kind of underrated. she really has chops. I like her pop stuff but really appreciate her little known marrachi recordings (Mas Canciones and Canciones De Ma Padre). They're amazing for soulful delivery married to spot-on intonation and jaw dropping breath control on held notes.Great arrangements too.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 22 Nov 2006 2:30 pm

Marvin Gaye has always been at or near the peak of that mountain for me...

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Mark

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 22 Nov 2006 3:43 pm

Oh, I don't think Ronstadt is underrated; she's had a brilliant career, several times over, as she keeps reinventing herself. But I do agree she has chops, voice and soul. As does Dolly. Emmylou, I'd give awards for voice and soul, but not particularly for 'chops', though I must admit to having dropped her from my CD player several years ago. (Please don't anyone tell her; I know she'd be heartbroken...)[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 22 November 2006 at 08:30 PM.]

Stephen Gregory · Post by **Stephen Gregory** » 22 Nov 2006 6:11 pm

Anyone catching my drift, in other words, are we seeing how this topic relates to the Steel Guitar "tone" thread? Is it the "voice" that makes great music or is "the voice" maybe the 20% or less factor, with the rest of the qualities that create music being related to tone, technique, style, taste, chops, choice of notes, ability to improvise,intellect etc? In other words, having a great voice, can't in itself, make a great singer, no more than a vintage Emmons PP can make anyone that sits behind it play great.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 22 Nov 2006 6:45 pm

Yes, Stephen - I definitely got it. My second post here is, in a nutshell, an exact analog of what I said on that "tone" thread.

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 22 Nov 2006 7:38 pm

"Soul and voice but no chops? Joni Mitchell?"

I think Joni Mitchell has some impressive chops.

Neil Young is another who doesn't sing all that well but is somehow quite effective anyways.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 22 Nov 2006 9:46 pm

Great singer w great voice ..kd Lang
Marty Robbins
Patsy Cline
Paul Rodgers

just to name a few.........

Eric McEuen · Post by **Eric McEuen** » 22 Nov 2006 10:51 pm

...Roy Orbison...gotta name Marvin Gaye again, too. And Sam Cooke - they don't come much better.

I wonder where Paul McCartney fits? Great voice; okay soul and chops?

Good point with this thread, Stephen.

Dave Mudgett, I really like your posts, here and in the "tone" thread. I keep thinking I'll add something, only to see you've said it already. I could say you have "great insights" - but maybe they're just ones that happen to resonate with me.

Dayna Wills · Post by **Dayna Wills** » 22 Nov 2006 11:12 pm

Roger,
I saw Englebert several years ago and his pitch was right on the money. The first time I was in the studio with Morrell, I had to re-sing a bunch of stuff due to pitch problems that I couldn't hear at the time. I had a killer headache while we were recording and when I got home it bacame a full blown sinus infection, so it messed with my hearing. Maybe Englebert was having a bad day.....? At this show he introduced his son who looks just like his dad and sings pretty good, too.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 23 Nov 2006 5:25 am

Dayna

I don't think so. Gordon Mills' in-house engineer, Pete Rynston, would roll his eyes at the prospect of getting Englebert's vocal on tape. It was an all-day job every time. He had strong 'pipes', for sure, but this was long before any pitch-controlling technology was available.

Tom Jones was also recorded in the same studio - that was a very different story! I was there playing guitar on a few tracks, so I saw it all at first-hand.

RR

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 23 Nov 2006 8:41 am

Tom Jones did a great blues number in that Scorcese PBS series on blues.

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"The less I was of who I was, the better I felt." -- Leonard Cohen

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 23 Nov 2006 9:41 am

Ruth Brown !
I didn't know who she was until I read her obituary last week. (The radio stations around Lafayette, Indiana had a policy of no-Negroes-unless-they-sound-as-white-as-Nat-Cole.) This girl could sing! The sun would rise in the west before they would play "If I Can't Sell It, I'll Keep Sittin' On It".

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 23 Nov 2006 5:29 pm

Nat Cole sounded white?

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"The less I was of who I was, the better I felt." -- Leonard Cohen

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Nov 2006 6:49 pm

Some great singers have a great voice, but some great stylists don't have much of a voice. Still, the important thing for either to have is the ability to connect with the listener on some subconscious level, and put real feeling and emotion in their songs. (You don't necessarily need a good voice to do that.)

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 23 Nov 2006 8:01 pm

ooh!ooh! I know! I don't know what catagory to put him in but I can't imagine anyone else singing like Roger Miller.

Greely Baggett · Post by **Greely Baggett** » 23 Nov 2006 11:30 pm

I believe Donny Hinson said it all....

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Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 24 Nov 2006 2:46 am

two words: TINA TURNER!!!!!!!!

Dayna Wills · Post by **Dayna Wills** » 25 Nov 2006 1:31 am

Roger,
Well, I heard him live and I didn't hear any pitch problems. I wasn't drinking...
But, I only heard live once so....I do know that my Aunt Lorene loves him, but was disappointed when she saw him live because he was wearing black and white shoes, and she hates black and white shoes! HA!
I tell ya what, those gals who sang Reba's songs live the other night had great pitch and some of those songs are tuff to sing even in one's own range. "You Lie" for example.

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Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 25 Nov 2006 4:02 am

I hear you, Dayna...

It's just that, having seen and heard him 'close up' back in Gordon's studio, it's difficult for me to think of him in terms of the very best singers (which is what this thread is discussing). I'm sure he's learned to make a passable job of his live shows after all these years but, at least in terms of Gordon Mills' 'stable' of artists, Englebert never came close to Tom Jones' level of ability.

RR[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 25 November 2006 at 05:06 AM.]

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 25 Nov 2006 5:21 am

Tom Jones once sang a duet with Janis Joplin on some TV show. Not many people can match her intenstiy, but he did.

I don't care for some of his commercial records, but the man has both the pipes and, when he gets into it, the soul.

But I still think Tina Turner is the best. She had it all, voice, emotional depth, looks, etc. Ike was a fool to mistreat her and drive her away.

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Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 25 Nov 2006 11:12 am

Better than Aretha, Mike....?

Ron · Post by **Ron** » 25 Nov 2006 11:31 am

Willy Nelson --Bad voice -good singer

Johnny Cash Bad Good

Merle Haggard. Voice is better than he was younger more gravely rough but the best singer!!

If the voice is the best and I cant understand the words I go some where else!!

It is all in your taste said the man that kissed the cow it is all in your taste!!

Robro Ron

Stephen Gregory · Post by **Stephen Gregory** » 8 Dec 2006 5:51 pm

Dean Dobbins · Post by **Dean Dobbins** » 8 Dec 2006 6:24 pm

I skimmed through a lot of the replies, but I didn,t see any mention of (in my opinion), our own country greats,not only exceptional stylists, but great voices- a few that come to mind are, Ray Price, Faron Young, Marty Robins, Darrel McCall, Johnny Bush, and I'm sure I'm leaving someone out, so, I will add someone who really blows me away, Texas singer Randy Corner! All these people style, sense of feeling, and each and every one of them can SING!!!

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Dino