Why is "rap" called music?

Stephen Gregory · Post by **Stephen Gregory** » 13 Nov 2006 7:20 am

I don't get it. And why are "D.J.'s" now considered musicians? And BTW since when is "sampling" i.e. stealing someone elses work, a creative talent?

Jim Hinton · Post by **Jim Hinton** » 13 Nov 2006 7:23 am

Your points are well taken ... I think it goes along with the fact that ESPN is has been showing poker as a sport.

I like a good poker game, but a sport?[This message was edited by Jim Hinton on 13 November 2006 at 07:24 AM.]

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 13 Nov 2006 7:25 am

The local music store sells DJ training courses. I guess they teach ya how to scratch records...

Stephen Gregory · Post by **Stephen Gregory** » 13 Nov 2006 7:59 am

Wow, I'm not the only one who is confused. 10/4 on the ESPN/Poker thing! I would add Billiards, Dog Shows and Spelling Bee's to the non sports list on ESPN. Is America being "dumbed down" by all of this?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 13 Nov 2006 8:43 am

I've heard it said that rap is talking when you should be singing, while opera is singing when you should be talking! One is considered 'high art' and the other 'low art'? Go figure...LOL!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 13 Nov 2006 8:52 am

Last night I suffered through 2 hours of REALLY bad rap.
The earlier club was just synth and beats, fone for dancing.

The 2nd club was just nausiating tripe, mysoginist crpa from an inner city world 12 time zones away,
with;

No social redeeming value

No lyric content that said anything coherant

No themes besides treating women badly
and having semi consensual sex

No actual musical performance

No anything I can't do in 20 minutes in my work room,
but see no need to bother with.

AND the DJ had no clue about his own tone controls,
or an idea what point of pain means.

The 3 ladies i was with were blissfully dancing,
and blythly ignoring the lyrical musical content...

I took my beer outside.

It has drums therefor; it is music,

It stacks more than 2 notes over each other; it is music,

Someone someone p[ushes words through a micorophone;
it is music.

My fanny it's music!!!

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 13 Nov 2006 10:31 am

Last night I suffered through 2 hours of REALLY bad rap.

Well, David, take your pick of responses, each offered with all due respect:

a. Who's fault was that?
b. What circumstance(s) on earth could have caused this or made it unavoidable?

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 13 Nov 2006 11:57 am

b. What circumstance(s) on earth could have caused this or made it unavoidable?

I'm not David, but I'd guess it might have something to do with

The 3 ladies i was with were blissfully dancing

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 13 Nov 2006 12:02 pm

Because it is "POLITICALY CORRECT' to give the underprivileged their THANG.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 13 Nov 2006 12:08 pm

Political Correctness is liberal fundamentalism. Just like all the other fundamentalisms.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 13 Nov 2006 12:33 pm

i would not be so much against rap, if it were not the filthy words {lyrics} that is associated with it. I mean look, everyone has the right to listen to whatever {music} they please. But, i think..maybe some will disagree with me, but, i think the gangsta rap, and filthy lyrics, and hate it sprews affects us all. Now you could say, well country beer drinking songs might raise the drunk driving stats, or jazz might cause more drug abuse. But friends this gangsta, and regular rap, has been shown to raise teen pregnacies, gang activity, turf murders. I forget the name of that rap artist that they came all the way across the country to knock off? But rap i think as a music, has more impact of people then, any george jones beer drinking song. Randy Travis, loretta lynn never sang with their middle finger up, calling your mother filthy names. You are right..this is not music, it's a culture movement. Sorry if i stepped on toes, but i just hate this stuff. It started out clean i guess, but whenever i hear it, it's filth. Listen to emmenem sometime...it just breeds filth. Now don't confuse rap with todays hip hop, adult alternative, R&B, heavy metal. They may not turn your crank either, but they do not fit into the same catagory as rap....Just my 2 bits worth.

Jim Hinton · Post by **Jim Hinton** » 13 Nov 2006 1:29 pm

Stephen:

I think ESPN is just trying to find "cheaper shows" to call a sport to improve their bottom line.

I guess if people want to watch it, that's fine, but it's not sports, anymore than rap is music.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 13 Nov 2006 2:30 pm

RAP is Crap[can't say the real word here]ANY ONE that calls this ^&%$ music is an absolute brain dead idiot,Forgive me for even mentioning rap and music in the same sentence,that in itself is an abomination.When I'm watching tv and a commercial with a hint of rap comes on,I hit the mute button in a flash.As far as political correctnessit SUCKS.Also this SOCALLED country music today is almost as deep in the cess pool as rap.Getting worse every day,if you don't think so,watch a rerun of the last CMA awards show.Just Holly Weird warmed over.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 13 Nov 2006 2:38 pm

P.S. David,you'r a better man than me.I could'nt have taken 30 seconds of that,much less two hours,Those three ladies would have had to get the DJ to take them home,I would have been gone.gone,gone.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 13 Nov 2006 2:53 pm

I don't listen to a lot of rap but I appreciate it and recognize the skill it takes to be really good at it. There will always be bad rap performers like there will always be bad country, rock, folk, and blues performers. But the best are the best for a reason: they are talented and they work at it.

The one "rap" record I have in my collection is the one put out on Bluenote a few years ago where they used the Bluenote catalog as the source material. It is really a great record.

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 13 Nov 2006 4:20 pm

Political Correctness is liberal fundamentalism. Just like all the other fundamentalisms.

Thank (your deity here) someone said it!

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

[This message was edited by John McGann on 13 November 2006 at 04:21 PM.]

Robert Leaman · Post by **Robert Leaman** » 13 Nov 2006 6:42 pm

Ladies or not, my taste doesn't permit me to sit through any RAP for longer than it takes me to recognize it for it is, NOISE. However, there is no accounting for taste.

Political correctness brought tall people to be termed vertically disadvantaged and garbage collectors as sanitary technicians. I have no tolerance for those who speak in the third person singular, once removed, such as, "One would like to assume that --- ".

If you don't have the guts to make a direct statement, keep your mouth shut because you are talking without saying anything.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 13 Nov 2006 6:58 pm

With all due respect, i couldn't tell the bad ones from the so called good ones. Skills? ah yeah..please for this dumb hillbilly tell me what skills it takes to make this meaningless noise so i can appreciate it as much as others. All i hear is someone talking a mile a minute over a repetitive beat with a record player scrating vinyl, offensive hand and finger gestures, no melody, maybe i don't know enough filthy words perhaps? or want to kill a muttha! {spelling}, but i suppose in a way it's like this modern hot country, if i were 12 years old i might enjoy it.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 13 Nov 2006 7:18 pm

why are "D.J.'s" now considered musicians?

Without stating my personal opinion, If you step back for a moment, I think it asks the question, "what is a musical instrument?" If it's something that makes a sound and is played, then why can't a record player, being manipulated in an untraditional way, qualify?

And BTW since when is "sampling" i.e. stealing someone elses work, a creative talent?

I tend to really have a hard time with this one, the way it's used now, but it's been around for centuries. And it's not just in pop music, I've been sampled for film scores, sometimes I get paid, more often than not, I don't.

Looking back, the "swing era" lasted about 10 years, the "golden age of country" lasted how long? Rap and Hip-Hop have been a dominant form for over 20 years.

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 13 Nov 2006 7:20 pm

When Ray Charles was asked what he thought of "Rap Music" he said that it WASN'T music.

I'll take Ray's opinion anytime.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 13 Nov 2006 8:08 pm

Just to make it clear, I don't enjoy listening to what most of you refer to as "rap". I find most of their "tough boy" posing laughable, at best.

However,- there's good and bad in every style, including country, jazz, rock, etc etc... For me rap is simply about citing a lyric over a foundation of solid rhythms. Nothing more nothing less and certainly nothing new. What the music business has made of it is an entirely different issue....

Those who believe it's all about the "gangsta" stuff might be surprised to know that there is such a thing as a Christian Rap Chart, just to give you an example of the opposite side of it...

Is it music? Can rhythm be called music without a strong melodic and harmonic 'voice'? In my opinion yes, in others opinions no...

As for the turntable thing - I've heard "turntablists" do the most amazing stuff in modern jazz settings, proving skills and a sense of rhythm that's up there with some of the best percussionists. Again,- there's good and there's bad.....

Most musical styles has what's genuine about them sucked out as soon as the 'suits' pick it up and turns it into an industry (check the recent "CMA rewards" thread....), and that's what happened to rap and hip hop.

Steinar

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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 13 Nov 2006 8:31 pm

i'm a christian...1000000% but that stuff you are trying to make me think is gospel music, played to glorify the savior..is also trash..i don't care if it has the lords name in it or satans!....it's trash....sorry No Sale!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 13 Nov 2006 8:52 pm

George you are NOT the market for Christian Rap.
The market is the kids raised with negative rap in their lives,
as an alternative or counter-response to evil rap.

In this it does a laudable service.
No it is not gospel music, by any stretch.

I had to take herself 'dancing'
as a quid pro quo for something I needed
to do earlier in the evening.

My builders, recently EX, girlfriend came a long
and a 3rd girl apparently because she was buying her drinks.

I was the designated driver,
and I don't want my lady doing a 20 km drive at 3 am
with some of the 'bad' taxi drivers here.
Don't trust them unless there are TWO
or more ladies in the car....
Only takes ONE to ruin your life.

Chacha doesn't care about the lyrics,
she just 'loves to dance',
if the beat is right she just dances
an hour or 3 straight through.
One benifit, it keeps her legs
and other parts in fine shape.

Usually she goes with her sister, and closer to home,
this night we were down island and I had to be magnanimous.

Still hated the 'musical lack of content'.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 13 Nov 2006 9:39 pm

David, point well taken, if the so called christian rap will get the kids off the other stuff, then fine, i can handle it. My daughter and i have sat up late listening to the christian heavy meatal videos on the Trinity Broadcasting Network. Some of it i even liked. So if it will keep the kids straight, then brother count me in. I even enjoy some of the old rappers like MC Hammer, who speaks of love and salvation on the TBN and church network. So i am not against other ways, just sad to see that other stuff called music.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 13 Nov 2006 9:41 pm

I have to disagree with some of you guys that say SOME rap is good,there is no such thing as GOOD rap.As far as the so called Christian rap,Punk Christian rock,I think the quote is,Make a JOYFUL noise,not a HIDEOUS noise.