Copyright Law Gone Amuk

Charlie Campney · Post by **Charlie Campney** » 12 Oct 2006 3:40 am

Because his place features local musicians and covers are rare, he didn't think he had to pay the musicians and publishers group an estimated $2,000 to cover performances of copyrighted tunes.

What are covers ? ?

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 12 Oct 2006 4:51 am

Tony,

For performance royalties from BMI and ASCAP, the check for the writer's share goes directly to the writer and the publisher's share goes directly to the publisher, eliminating this potential.

For mechanical royalties off CD sales, the label pays it to the publisher, who then pays the writer...

Oh, and on returning a big screen tv vs a cd--If you go to Best Buy and buy a 60" plasma to watch the Super Bowl and return it the next day, at least they have it back, can resell it, and know you did not set it up on the workbench and build a clone to keep using. With a piece of software, a movie or a cd, it is waaaay to easy to just copy it and return it, and be able to use that program or entertainment for free--thus the policy. WIth the abilty to see reviews and listen to samples of music these days, one should be pretty prepared to know if the disc is crappy before they purchase it...

I said above the system is not perfect--if there was more even compliance and collection, chances are the fees could be lower. If you play a few originals in a club or get a few spins of one station are you going to get a check? Not likely, though with digital and embedding info in the disk it gets a bit more likely with radio airplay.

[This message was edited by John Macy on 12 October 2006 at 05:58 AM.][This message was edited by John Macy on 12 October 2006 at 07:05 AM.]

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 12 Oct 2006 5:14 am

Realistically $2000 a year is not that much for a club that is in any way successful. If the bands are using covers, the rights organizations are within their right to enforce that.
Songwriters sign deals with ASCAP or BMI to liscense their music, and are paid for it from that. Most of that $2000 probably nevers sees the light of day after they get ahold of it, but the writers agree to that when they sign up. They get paid from spins on the radio, royalties from record sales revenue and other sources.
It is, however, ridiculous to say that it is a violation to whistle a tune- what a moron. So am I breaking the law when I sing in the shower? Come get me, if you want to dig me outta my hidey hole. Watch out though, I have a bunch of unliscensed out of tune recordings of myself on my hard drive, and I'm not afraid to use 'em!

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 12 Oct 2006 5:20 am

So am I breaking the law when I sing in the shower?

Only if you are in the company of enough people to call it a 'public performance'...

Steinar

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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 12 Oct 2006 3:19 pm

John, thanks for the reply, it never hurts to actually pickup something from an educated person..

t

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 12 Oct 2006 5:38 pm

Dave's right. It's only 99% of lawyers who give the rest a bad name.

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"Time flies like an arrow. Fruitflies like a banana." -- Groucho

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 12 Oct 2006 8:50 pm

This is nuts!
Give me a break.

I'll go out anywhere, and everywhere and sing "A Simple Song Of Freedom" (written by Bobby Darin and recorded by Tim Hardin - or, maybe, vice-versa) Forget now.

I can't believe this horse#$$%^ I'm reading here. What is this, Nazi Germany?

It's like you open your mouth, and BANG, you're dead. Not gonna shut me up.

You gotta fight back. This is ridiculous.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 13 Oct 2006 3:08 am

I had a bunch of run-ins with these people when I was in business and it's just a rip-off for the writers and the clubs they charge. A very big portion of this money pays for big vacations,parties, lavish events with stars and all at the expense of any club that has live music. I think any club with a seating capaicity of under 100-150 people should be exempt. Musicians of all kinds are going to naturally start out playing cover tunes and for ASCAP to come in and charge you these ridiculous rates is outrageous. Also to keep getting royaties for life is another rip-off. 25 years of royaties should be enough for the effort it take to write a song. It's only a song, not a cure for cancer!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 13 Oct 2006 3:19 am

It is important to understand - there are thousands, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of lawyers and MBA's packed into office buildings all over the country asking themselves, "How can I make a pile of money without doing any work?" It's an investment strategy for them - spend a few dozen hours drawing up the papers, a few hundred dollars filing them and then wait and see which and what pays off.

It's really highly unlikely that Dottie Butts, second cousin thrice-removed to country singing legend Lefty Butts, found out that YOUR band did a cover version of Lefty's classic "There's No Corn In My Pone" and that she began demanding her share of the songwriting royalties in order to feed her starving autistic triplets. SURE it would be nice if Dottie gets what's due her, it's a great song after all, but it's far more likely that the impetus for this kind of thing came from some ducktailed young legal hotshot working for some megalithic, dying dino-corporation who are just looking to skim some cash from the top of Dottie's money, and yours and poor dead Lefty's creative labors.

(Here on the Eastern Shore we used to chuck the lawyers into the bay, but they kept poisoning the crabs....)

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 13 Oct 2006 6:27 am

"How can I make a pile of money without doing any work?"

Become an ex-wife...

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 13 Oct 2006 9:21 am

Dave,

Maybe that's why my crabs have been itchier lately.

But seriously, what concerns me is that most politicians are lawyers. It makes me suspect that they pass laws that require more litigation.

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"I drink to make other people more interesting." -- Jack Nicholson

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 13 Oct 2006 4:40 pm

" I'll just have a cup of coffee and I'll go" But first I'll spill it on me (thats hot!)and be rich. Remember The Big Mac. It's illegal to play music in a elevator going down or up

I wonder if my dentist pays copyright. Joe [This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 13 October 2006 at 05:42 PM.][This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 13 October 2006 at 05:49 PM.]

Duane Reese · Post by **Duane Reese** » 13 Oct 2006 8:11 pm

Let's face it: (and I know I am going to get serious flack for saying this, but...) the reason this seems so unreasonable is because we are all used to being able to get away with it, and we have a feeling of entitlement. I know just having a song played seems petty for that kind of money (and maybe it is) but song rights owners are some of the most ripped-off people in the world.

I think ASCAP has gone over the top on this one, but there's another side to the story. Maybe things would run smoother if the fees were way less and the process was easier to negotiate - that'd probably bring them more cash too, from the smaller outfits.

Q: Can the performer get sued too, as well as the club hosting them?

Q: Does a place's "private club for members" status change any of this?

erik · Post by **erik** » 13 Oct 2006 8:38 pm