The Description of Country Music

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 1 Sep 2005 11:45 am

Charlie....we're just old foggies, that don't know what sounds good...gotta go..the nurse is here at the home, she wants to change my bed pan, and help me change my sweats...after bingo, this hot little 81 year old sweetie and i, are gonna listen to Tex Ritter 78's and make out!

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 1 Sep 2005 12:15 pm

George, That's better than having to listen to Big and Rich,or Cowboy Troy!!!!!!!!!

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 1 Sep 2005 12:19 pm

Lillie,
Your a Hoot!!

loved your post! You go get em' girl, ha,ha. Got to agree with you,
if thats the best them folks can do.....
and I dont like folks messing with Conway's
songs either!

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73 PRO II, 79/80 PRO III
Steelkings,Fender guitars,Preston covers,
and Taylor(Tut that is)
Reso's
"Of all the things Ive lost in life, I miss my mind the most"

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 1 Sep 2005 1:14 pm

i agree Charlie...Big & Rich describes Donald Trump...lmao

Cody Campbell · Post by **Cody Campbell** » 1 Sep 2005 1:35 pm

George R., you cracked me up. (I think I could imagine better make-out music, though).

The song about bad rock'n'roll in the earlier reply was sorta funny, too. I got a kick out of the background vocals, and the ending. (I really can't imagine BE having anything to do with that, though).

I like what Charlie M. said. (Carter Family is what they used to call country). It's true that later, in commercial country music of the 50's/60's, there were strong outside influences from blues, pop, jazz, etc. BUT, I hear none of that in the sacred songs or folk songs of rural/southern singers like the Carters. But I suppose could be wrong. I don't listen to much of that OR much western music. I tend to enjoy what was being produced up to about 15 yrs after C & W got 'married'.

[edited to add all that follows]: (I didn't quite blab my whole opinion yet). First of all, 'Good' music, or 'real' music, is simply whatever a person finds favorable.

Now, back onto the subject...I think the real rock influence of country came in the 70's. (The sixties was more Pop, or something). From the 80's to present it's even more rock. Whole song structures are more riff-based, (as far as songs that aren't really slow) with heavy punches in the rhythm. It's gone way beyond the addition of bluesy guitar licks.

The world has just grown so much. There's SO much of everything now. More people having done different things, and more technology being added.

Even artists that most of us see as good solid country, for example Merle Haggard, always added rock. And he got more and more far out with it. No one's lost respect for him, though. (That is, until 'Unforgettable'.

) And while I prefer the old stuff, I even like most of the later songs too.

I must that I agree with those who feel that that the quality and listenability of country music has taken a deep plunge. The musicians make the best of it, though, and make original-sounding music. While I don't listen to ANY new stuff, and find most of it intolerable, I am confident that the players have a sense diginity about their work, and take pride in it.

As I've said, I'm not a fan of rock, but cheers to the players And the artists.

That's my opinion, for now. I've never been part of a clean-sounding recording, so I'll have to just be nice. (Maybe once I've made something brilliant, I can afford to start acting like the musical snob I really am)

.[This message was edited by Cody Campbell on 01 September 2005 at 09:10 PM.][This message was edited by Cody Campbell on 01 September 2005 at 09:14 PM.][This message was edited by Cody Campbell on 01 September 2005 at 09:24 PM.]

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 2 Sep 2005 1:22 am

Tex Ritter! Now, that's what I call country. 'Tool Pusher from Snyder.'

And Slim Willet: 'Don't Let the Stars Get in Your Eyes.

I say, when it comes to C&W, smoke pot instead of smoke pots. Laser light shows should be banned, and the steel player ought to sit out front.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 2 Sep 2005 3:44 am

What IS country music???.. Here are some thought that you can compare and see which ones YOU consider to be country..All these examples have been played on "country" radio or tv at one time or another..

1.. Is it an old Appalachian fiddler playing an out of tune version of "Little Brown Jug"?,..

2.. Kenny Rogers in the early 80's crooning a pop mega hit with a 50 piece orchestra backing?

3..Shania Twain vamping her other wordly sexy good looks and blinding white teeth ,dressed in outlandish outfits,singing about not being impressed?

4 Charlie Daniels tearing it up on a just slightly squaky,out of tune fiddle, with fat sounding distorted Les Pauls and dual drummers laying it down??

5...Big and Rich singing "Save a Horse,Ride a Cowboy?

6.. Cowboy Troy... nuff said...

7..Buck Owens and the Buckeroos doing "Tiger by the Tail" or "Act Naturally"?...

8 George Jones singing his soul out in "If Drinkin" don't Kill me...

9..Hank Williams singing "I'm so Lonesome I could Cry.". or is that "Lonesome Whipoorwill"??

10.. Tim McGraw singing Living like you were Dying?

11..Kenny Chesney and this "Island " music trip he's on lately ???

Most of us have an "idea" in our heads of what "real" country music is... In my case, if you look at songs 7-8-9, on my little list, you will get an idea of what I consider country music to be... There are other tunes I listed MILLIONS of other smart folks consider country.. who is to say.??..

For me, until the day I DROP DEAD,, country music will be Buck and Don and those TIGHT harmonies,Dons tele and Toms steel, making HAPPY sounds.. "bring on a smile" type of country music...

Steel guitar IN your face kind of country... Not this overly polished "pop" bile being churned out for consumption by houswives that want to see Tim or Kenny in thier cowboy hats and tight T shirts.....

IMHO with a few exceptions,country is dead... or pretty close to it... Makes me a little sad.... bob

Bob Smith · Post by **Bob Smith** » 2 Sep 2005 5:12 am

Would someone that isnt over 45 yrs old please post your views on this topic?

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 2 Sep 2005 7:06 am

Bob... ok,since you may feel like us decrepit ol timers (51) are living in the past... I'll "update" my ideas of country to just a few "contemporary artists"..

Patty Loveless,Alison Krause = country

Shania, Faith Hill = NOT

Brad Paisley,Joe Nichols,Alan Jackson = Country

Chesney,Big and Rich,Brooks and Dunn=NOT

Some are more country than others, some have a few authentic country tunes in thier songbook,but most[not all] of todays performers are more concerned about the hype,glitz and glamour that goes with thier celebrity than they are about preserving a REAL, heartfelt,uniquely American art form for posterity.

Most of todays "country" headliners would sniff at the idea of playing a show with 8 or 10 other acts and just playing 3 or 4 songs.. THAT is the way a LOT of early rock and roll and country concerts were packaged.. Todays "stars" get to pick out color and length of the limo that takes them to and from the show and the brand of champagne they'll be drinking back at the Hilton they are staying at.. Sorry ,, in my book, it AIN'T country anymore.... bob

Lillie Powles · Post by **Lillie Powles** » 2 Sep 2005 7:43 am

huh? bob smith, i did yesterday! i am just 21 years old, how much under 45 would you like? i have my little cousin who is 12, she is right here, would you like her opinion? but sir, with all due respect, a person like Bob Carlucci, or Charlie, or George Redmon, the ones who "Purchase" the music, or allow others in their family to purchase music, would give you a much more realistic assessment. This "Stuff" is written for, and aimed at, children, single women in bars, drunks, dancers. NOT THE LISTENING PUBLIC..THEY HATE IT! how long Mr Smith, can you sit in front of your TV, and watch those lord awful videos on GAC? 30 minutes tops? that stuff stinks! PERIOD! now you may find that [music] entertainment, but that rot drives me nuts. Sir, if you like that type of
[music], then i really don't think it matters what we think. I hope you can find someone else "Under 45" that will give you the opinion you are seeking. But my fellow Forum Bro, it's not going to be this "Under 45" 21 year old! nice post good question.

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Sho Bud D10 peavey nashville112

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 2 Sep 2005 9:44 am

Sic 'em, Lillie!

Actually, I think the young are often a better judge of these things; not quite so set in their ways.

But also missed Tex Ritter.

Bob Smith · Post by **Bob Smith** » 2 Sep 2005 12:28 pm

Sorry Lili, I didnt read your post. Im not seeking anyones opinions, just making online conversation on this great forum. I wont refer to anyones musical effort as "rot " either. I resect your strong opinions, and oh by the way...................." I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance!!!" I must confess i do love the CMT videos and do watch them all the time. How did you know? bob

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 2 Sep 2005 12:43 pm

Bob I'm over 45'[66],The leader of the band I play in[Joeyallcorn.com]is 24 years old,the rest in their early 30's.We play music from the 30's through the 50's Jimmy Rogers,Hank Sr.,Webb Pierce,Bob Wills,Faren Young,and the list goes on. Even though we play our music with a Rock-a-Billy style,We are trying to turn as many young people on to these real country artist as we can.We have worked in six states in the last few months.Believe it or not our best and most appreciative audience is in some of the rock,and punk rock clubs we play.I would never have dreamed a kid with green and red hair would request Webb Pierce,Wynn Sterwart;Earnest Tubb,Hank Sr.etc.Dont think you have to over 45 to like real country music.they go wild when you give them Johnny Cash,Hank Sr.Webb,Earnest etc.The only place we absolutely bombed was a top 40 country club in Fla.When we were loading in,all I heard the D.J.playing was Tim McGraw,Chesney,Big and Rich,and Cowboy Troy. I knew immediately we were sc---ed,and we were.The only thing that crowd wanted was to bump and grind all night to Save a horse,Ride a Cowboy,We had to endure this nightmare for three nights before we could get our money and run.[A personel note to J.W.,J.W. this was worse than your Va.gig and there was no possums there,just armadillos.The one point I'm trying to make here is there are plenty of kids out there in their teens and early 20's ,that want to hear real country music.You have to take it to them,they damn sure won't hear it on the radio or see it on t,v.

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 2 Sep 2005 1:40 pm

Big and Rich?, Cowboy Troy? sorry, No matter how many times I vomit, I still feel the need to hang myself!
I feel better now

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 2 Sep 2005 1:47 pm

I may be sixty or there abouts and its a fact I worked a good thirty five years 5-6-and 7 nighters along with Fairs and Parks. Music raised my family (well paid for it)and I am now comfortably retired. One might say it was the Hag kept me workin all them years.(well his music did)Just wondering if any of todays artist will pump out enough hits for me to make a comeback? The hard thing would be to find music I liked doing and to get all the retired old Pharts out to the bars again to support me.Things have to change we all have to realize that but there are a lot of us that wish they would wait until we are gone before they dug the hole.. There are a lot of great artist now without labels that can still sing and perform better (or as good) than whats coming up the rear.Recently I made a CD out of some of my old recordings and lo and behold I am on the Juke box again. (Elks and Moose lodges)Its nice to know the man who owns the company,also being a member and golfing buddy to the Grand Pubba don't hurt either.

Whats my point....Darn it I forgot.

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Smiley 22-9 Crank&pull&push pro model Deluxe with auto string changer.500ft. roll.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 2 Sep 2005 7:26 pm

i do love the CMT videos and do watch them all the time. How did you know?

oh my goodness......
If you like it Bob...you got my blessings[This message was edited by George Redmon on 02 September 2005 at 08:48 PM.]

Bob Smith · Post by **Bob Smith** » 3 Sep 2005 4:30 am

Thankyou George, I accept your blessings. Check out the new Shania video, its full of pretty gals, and killer steel playing to boot!( what could be better than that) bob

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 3 Sep 2005 5:51 am

better then that? ummmm a song with a melody and chord structure? and i have "Pretty girls" here in my household, and i put in a nice CD and hear GREAT steel music..i'll pass

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 3 Sep 2005 6:54 am

quote**Big and Rich?, Cowboy Troy? sorry, No matter how many times I vomit, I still feel the need to hang myself!
I feel better now **....

Larry...

!!!... Great response my friend!! you speak for many...

Bob Smith.. I agree on the Shania video.. The steel is great.. right in your face,very cool licks and unique touch.. and of course Shania looks so incredible ,I'm afraid I'll turn into a pillar of salt if I look at her[I DO force myself however!!]

Its a cool video, but it still reeks of super slick pop culture.. I like the song... I think maybe I can clarify the way some of us feel... I LIKE a LOT of pop.. I LIKE a lot of hard rock... Classical,Jazz,Swing,Bluegrass, you name it... HOWEVER these forms are generally NOT slicked down,polished up,bleached,rinsed,colored,perfumed,
sprinkled with glitter, and then passed off as "real"... I'm sorry, but MANY of todays "country" acts ar NOT country..

They are talented, HIGHLY attractive, VERY lucky,business savvy,and I give them credit.. They have made it big.. most don't.NO problem.. I give them all due credit.. Its just that I want my country to be country.. I want my classical to be classical, not some neo classical hybrid.. I want my blugrass to sound like bluegrass... put keys and drums in it, and to me its no longer bluegrass..

We're NOT piling on Bob,, you're a good guy and there are many like you that enjoy modern country... I just feel it has LOST its way... The music does NOT stand on its own... the pop culture is holding it up high on a pedestal of gold... bob

Bob Smith · Post by **Bob Smith** » 3 Sep 2005 8:22 am

Bob Carlucci, I Knew you would like that Shania song!( Ive been a salt statue for awhile) The music is there to take whatever you want from it,I dont think anybody likes everything that happening at any given time. But, I still insist, the playing on the modern country songs is hotter than ever. And, some great singers , Trace Atkins,Gretchen Wilson, just to name a couple. I dont mind getting piled on, this is good clean fun as far as im concerned. bob

Lillie Powles · Post by **Lillie Powles** » 3 Sep 2005 9:13 am

Bob C. do you have a secret recipe for your spaghetti sauce? could you at least give me some help with mine? it always turns out flat. Love You guys, a big kiss to you both.

[This message was edited by Lillie Powles on 03 September 2005 at 11:36 PM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 3 Sep 2005 9:33 am

I think it's clear from my earlier posts that I'm hardly a "modern commercial country booster". But I think it's just as unreasonable to completely dismiss it because there are a bunch of high-profile acts - that dress in torn jeans, play Les Pauls through Marshalls, and run around the stage like a rock band - as it is for many rock or blues fans to diss all country music because they don't like "whiney singers and whiney fiddles and steel guitars", which I hear all the time as I try to push "real country music" in my area. These are all stereotypes, which are only partially rooted in fact, but have more to do with preconceptions, IMO.

Bob S. is also right that there is also a lot of killer playing on modern country. I hang in for a tune sometimes just to hear the players, even if I don't care for the overall feel.

Lillie Powles · Post by **Lillie Powles** » 3 Sep 2005 10:23 am

very good point Dave. However, i notice you do not listen only to the modern stuff. By what i can take from reading our good friend Bob S. to HIM...this "Modern" music. IS True country music. And he prefers to only listen to it. That is the the distinction i see between him and you, or him and myself. Hey, there have been a few of this new stuff, that has caught my ear. Very little, but a couple of tunes. I am not dismissing anything, that makes some people happy. I hope he gets as much enjoyment out of Big & Rich, as i do Conway, or Jones, or Jackson, or Haggard. Just calling this new stuff "True Country" is kinda pushing the envelope. And the True classic singers are all but gone on the opry on TV. So sad..but hey if it floats yur boat..sail on...hugs

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Sho Bud D10 peavey nashville112

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 3 Sep 2005 11:34 am

Lillie - I didn't hear him say "this "Modern" music IS True country music". He said this: "Wasnt country music always a combination of mny types of music ? ( ethnic, jazz, blues, etc.) I like the young artists of today dont really mind the way the music has changed."

I agree with him on point 1 - country music was always an amalgamation of different styles. On point 2 - well, I probably don't like it as much as he does, but I think we should expect the music to either change or die. And I do hear some very good things out there, even still. Further, I don't think it was ever possible to listen to the Top 40 of any style and like everything. People are fairly diverse, and there's a market for everything.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't be afraid of real change in country music. I also want to see that change "channel away" from Britney Spears and the 80s hair bands, and move more towards something with more "mileage" and authenticity.

I don't think it's at all hopeless. If there's nothing except commercial radio to listen to, I'd rather listen to most "modern country" than the alternative modern popular styles, which are "modern rock", hip-hop, techno, or rap. The other thing big on the radio these days is "schlocky old pop" or "classic rock" - but how many times can anybody listen to Air Supply, "Stairway to Heaven" or "Takin' Care of Business'?