What do y'all think of THIS crap??

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 7 Oct 2004 12:56 pm

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"Not that I can think of any steel player who would play that crap."
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I'm utterly confident that if there are big crowds and big bucks, there are people who will 'play that crap'. Some may even like it. De gustibus non disputandum.
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"The things I have read is that the civic movers & shakers of Nashville are embarrassed with the "country music" image and would like to get rid of it! "
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I'm a New England yankee who married a girl from greater Nashville almost 30 years ago, and that's my outsider's close-in perception also. Guys like Ralph Emery paint this picture (in his books) of the Nashville establishment over the years. I think there's been a new-found pride in country music the last few decades, but those attitudes die hard, imo. I think everybody loves it when the gravy train is rolling, but only the faithful stick if it's not. And where's James Carville when we need him with "It's the money, stupid".
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" "Then we can move Country Music back to Nashville." Do you really think Nashville could handle such culture shock?? "
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Well, I still think it's a lot easier to find good barbecue in Nashville than good sushi (and I like both). And there's still more real country music in Nashville than anywhere I know here up north (including out here in rural PA), but you have to get off the mainstream more to find it. Yes, there's some cool country music in NYC and Boston, but I don't think that there's any danger of NYC or Boston taking over as the "country music capital of the world". If you're talking cities, I think that'd probably be somewhere in Texas at this point.

Finally, "I get really pissed off when smirky NYC yuppie scum yell a condescending yee-haw when I'm on the bandstand."

Amen, brother. That's one of the pitfalls of playing any style of music out of it's 'natural' habitat. Wore me down enough to stop playing out for a while. Needed a break.

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Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 7 Oct 2004 1:10 pm

All of this music that many of you call crap features the musical offerings of Paul Franklin Jr, Dan Dugmore, Mike Johnson, Bruce Bouton, Russ Pahl, and others...

How can you praise these musicians in one thread on the forum and then call the music they record crap or worse...

I can go back and show anyone of you the praises PF gets for being a "steel guitar hero" and the SAME people tearing up a Shania cut from one end to the next...

It is like we will shake his hand with our right hand while our left hand stabs him in the back.....

This is rediculous --- no so much of where this show will be.. but the thoughtless gripe of the musical efforts of great steel players...

I feel bad for these GREAT steel players who go to work in the studios everyday. These guys work hard and do a great job...

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 7 Oct 2004 2:46 pm

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:34 PM.]

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 7 Oct 2004 3:28 pm

I distinctly heard Brooks & Dunn announce at a News-Conference the other day that the CMA Awards were only going to NYC for this one occasion! And that they would never leave Nashville. But,I think I heard some time ago that, that was the case and after that one-time, it will move to some other state in the Mid-West or West! (Perhaps it was Texas, I don't remember.) I guess there's still enough time for many minds to change!

“Big John” [This message was edited by John Bechtel on 07 October 2004 at 10:29 PM.]

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 7 Oct 2004 4:51 pm

Jim, they can leave it just CMA...Country My A$$

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 7 Oct 2004 6:07 pm

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:34 PM.]

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 8 Oct 2004 4:05 am

Jim Phelps, You pretty much nailed how I see it. I love the ability and talent and work the studio guys do. Some of the music they put out is great country. But allot of it is psuedo country---just fill that is between the rare, occasional country tune. The studio players are just the side men doing their jobs. Someone else called the shots on what gets labeled country.

Brian Donegan · Post by **Brian Donegan** » 8 Oct 2004 4:43 pm

Who cares where they move it, They should move it right off the air. most of what I see covered by the CMA is not country at all, and I am not a super puriest by any means (Heck, I am from New Jersey). But that stuff is like britney spears with a fiddle and a steel. As far as praising the players, of course you could praise the talent of the players and dislike the music they are PAID to perform on. Hell I would not be surprised if the players themselves dislike that homogenized sterile cookie cutter music. There is great music out there, but sometimes you have to look.Most "stars" of current pop country will be " here today, gone later today" Just my opinion Brian

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 8 Oct 2004 6:15 pm

Two songs say it all. "Murder On Music Row" by Jackson and Strait. The other is, "Its A Young Man's Town" by Vince Gill.( I think thats the right title). For years I wanted CMT but the local cable company did"nt provide it. We recently got a new cable provider with CMT in their package. Problem is, I can't stand to watch it. I use to look forward to the CMA show but for the last couple of years, I turned it off before it was half over.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Oct 2004 5:58 am

I think it's a good idea!

The following list of nominees for the 38th annual "Musician Of The Year" award was lifted from the CMA website...

MUSICIAN OF THE YEAR
Matt Chamberlain – Drums
Kenny Greenberg – Electric Guitar
Dann Huff – Guitar
Larry Paxton – Bass Guitar
Brent Rowan – Guitar[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 10 October 2004 at 06:59 AM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 10 Oct 2004 6:49 am

I get really pissed off when smirky NYC yuppie scum yell a condesending yee-haw when I'm on the bandstand.

Sorry 'bout that Bob. I had my hands full o' ribs & couldn't rightly applaud you.

[This message was edited by HowardR on 10 October 2004 at 11:50 AM.]

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 10 Oct 2004 8:21 am

quote:
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I get really pissed off when smirky NYC yuppie scum yell a condesending yee-haw when I'm on the bandstand.
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cripes, that happened for every song when I saw Calexico play here in March, I was just about to jump on the guy when the dueling steel guitar show stopper seemed to calm him down.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 10 Oct 2004 11:48 am

The CMA is an industry Rock/Pop show anyhow, and the top fourty music being produced by Nashville is NOT country. A new organization needs to be formed. Something like the Country Music Guild. One of the problems is that that people like Garth Brooks, Alan Jackson and George Strait are sitting back and counting their money and doing nothing about it. I have little respect for them for not giving back to country music. They have the power. Country music is purposely being destroyed and they're doing nothing to stop it.[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 10 October 2004 at 12:48 PM.]

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 10 Oct 2004 6:44 pm

Kevin, I share your sentiments about the music. But, what do you think artists like George and Alan should do ?
I'm fearful the fault of the situation might better be addressed in the "are audiences getting stupider?" thread.
-John

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www.ottawajazz.com

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Oct 2004 1:44 am

well there is another small view here..

I have been playing both Country and Western (Huh ?) on the Steel and Tele for over 30 years on the Bandstands..my wife has been singing Country standards since age 9 or 10 on the Bandstands with her Dad ..neither of us ever lived even remotely close to Nashville..but we were 45 minutes from NYC...

perhaps the folks that don't live in Nville but do participate in the purchase of the millions and millions of CD sales won't have a problem with the Nashville Cats ( play clean as Country Water) coming North of the Mason Dixon line.

Don't get me wrong..I love Nville..but I seriously doubt that Alan Jackson has sold all of his 60 million plus or minus CD's to folks living in the Nville metropolitan area.

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 11 October 2004 at 02:45 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Oct 2004 8:51 am

James, no doubt. But lets keep in mind the big picture. .

A week or 2 back when I was in town there was a show band at the Stage, singing Brooks and Dunn and Rascal Flats tunes..even Kenny and Tim tunes..very good covers..excellent band..the place was packed to the gills..

3 singers and a 5 piece band..I didn't particularly care for the song selection but the band was excellent..and it was apparent to me that the other few hundred folks that were groovin' didn't really care what I thought !

I guess if you add up what we like..and what others like we can have some success..I just think that a presence in NY is not a bad thing..I doubt that it will have any impact on Nville...other than maybe some Nyaw'kers may want to head south to visit the Nville scene..buya few beers and put some tips in the jars..

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 11 October 2004 at 09:52 AM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 11 Oct 2004 1:05 pm

Nah,...if the subway don't go there, fuggeddaboutit !

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 11 Oct 2004 1:26 pm

Ah...Geezzzzz!

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 11 Oct 2004 4:31 pm

October 8, 2004 The Friday Sheet www.musicrow.com

Face The Music
CMA Throws The Hammer Down

David M. Ross

The CMA's decision to move the Awards to New York for one year is a bold, calculated, gamble. NYC is the media center of the universe and therefore the potential payoff for country music could be enormous Here’s how the New York Daily News described it (10/6): “Yee-huh? Yep, the Country Music Association Awards are headed our way next year, ditching the Grand Ole Opry for Madison Square Garden and millions of confused New Yorkers. But promoters have some work ahead of them in a city where there's no country music radio station and where the mayor butchers the names of top stars Shania Twain and Tim McGraw.”

“I’m more for it than against, but there are a lot of caveats,” says Equity Music Group President Mike Kraski. "Taking the show away for a year proves its value to the home community and I get a sense of what the CMA is trying to accomplish by placing our best and brightest stars center stage. If we do get a decision maker to flip a format in NYC and give us a country radio station then CMA has done the greatest good for country music that has been done in the last decade. If not, then it’s like chicken noodle soup—probably not a cure for anything but it doesn’t make you any sicker.”

“My initial thought,” says Peer Music VP Kevin Lamb, “was that having the show at home was something important that sets us apart. But I do see the potential for new opportunities in this move. If it pays off (and I hope it does) then what’s to stop it from moving beyond New York perhaps even to London, for example?”

“Ironically, I remember the CMA used to laugh at the ACMs because they weren’t in Nashville,” says Nick Hunter, Koch Nashville GM. “Well guess what, the ACMs move to Vegas helped them considerably. To me this is not as big a deal as everyone wants to make it out. But I don’t want to see it become a habit.”

Extreme Writers Group Co-President Michael Martin wonders how the move will effect Nashville’s customary Award week. “I don’t have a problem with change,” he says. “It expands our boundaries. But we still have to be able to come back, celebrate and carry on our traditions.”

According to ASCAP Senior VP Connie Bradley discussions have already begun among the songwriter organizations. “What we are planning is to pick a week in the middle of October and do all the awards banquets one after the other like we usually do,” she says. “The only thing missing will be CMA Awards.”

Some members of the community however, see the move as being a slap in the face to many of country music’s most earnest constituents.

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Country Takes New York (continued...)
David M. Ross

“Broadcasting the CMA show from a large city where there is not one country music radio station?” asks Sony/ATV Sr. VP/GM Creative Services Woody Bomar. “It’s another great idea from those wonderful folks who gave us the slogan ‘Country Music...admit it, you love it.”

“This is conclusive proof—as if it were needed—,” says VP Programming Regent Communications, Bob Moody, “that the CMA has abandoned the interests of people that make and listen to country music to concentrate exclusively on the commercial interests of those who sell country music. It has become the Chamber of Commerce for the country music industry. The best interests of Nashville’s creative community and the country radio listeners that support the artists and buy concert tickets are clearly secondary to helping the commercial interests advance their businesses. If something is not in the best interest of the commercial entities represented on the board then it gets very little attention.”

“Those comments seem almost self-contradictory,” responds CMA Executive Director Ed Benson. “The wish of the creative community is to make a better living out of what they do. The very purpose of this NYC endeavor is to create a better environment in a critical place where so many decisions are made about media sponsorships and advertising and stimulate the Northeast corridor to be a better place for record sales, concert tickets and ultimately radio success. I can’t figure out how one can differentiate between the interests of our board and the creative community. The Board includes everyone from songwriters, publishers and artists to broadcasters and record merchandisers.”

“The idea that one night in NYC is going to be such a benefit to us is just ridiculous,” says Moody. “You could tell that from the press conference with Bloomberg making a mockery of country music. In 1963 the CMA hosted a luncheon with NYC ad execs. It was their first time in New York. Tex Ritter was the president at the time. Gene Autrey and Flatt & Scruggs were there and they gave away a TN Walking Horse as a door prize to try and get attendance up. They’ve been trying to impress advertising people in NYC ever since. There have probably been at least a dozen board meetings in NYC. Do you remember Country Takes Manhattan? Garth Brooks in Central park? What kind of impact has that ever had that lasted more than one week?”

“Moving will have a negative impact locally,” Moody continues, “but in terms of my radio stations, we’re lucky because we have three in NY state that will benefit since they’ll probably need to give away tickets to fill the Garden. Listeners at our stations elsewhere however, don’t want to win a trip to the CMA show in NY. They didn’t want to do it before 9/11 and they certainly don’t now. So it is a total disconnect with the people that make the music and love the music as opposed to the people that sell the music. The funny part is I don’t even think it will help.”

Although the outcome remains to be seen, the assault—codenamed, Country Takes New York—will likely be country’s most ambitious attempt yet to gain lasting prestige in the Big Apple.

“From the initial conversations,” says Benson, “the idea was to create a week or more of events leading up to the Awards that would focus attention on country music and give New Yorkers more opportunity to participate.” According to Benson, most of the events will have to be either sponsored and/or supported through ticket sales. “Our strategic focus is clearly on media, corporate marketers and ad agencies,” he adds. “Possible tie-ins being explored involved the fashion industry, Broadway theater, concerts, exhibits, showcases and more. It will cost more than twice as much to produce the show in NY, so we had to negotiate terms and considerations to offset the increased expense. But NYC wanted the event and have provided considerations to offset the increased costs.” Benson revealed that there were no dissenting votes among the Board of Directors at the final vote to move the show

Despite NYC Mayor Bloomberg’s press conference pitfalls, Benson reacted positively. “There probably was a lack of preparation, on the part of the Mayor’s staff,” he says. ‘But his enthusiasm and commitment to the idea was genuine. Kix Brooks had Resistol make him a cowboy hat and he wore it. Yeah, he blew a couple of names, but he was happy and proud to announce this partnership”

On Thursday (10/7) The Tennessean newspaper lambasted the CMA saying “Big Apple gets the CMA, Music City gets the blues.” Calling the move a “betrayal,” the editors closed with a “message to the CMA...Your cheatin’ heart will tell on you.” It was truly a remarkable outpouring of emotion—too little, too late— from a hometown newspaper which year after year has devoted shrinking space and resources to covering this important industry.

“We have to look at our overall mission on a global basis," says Benson. "The Tennessean editorial falls within the overall differentiation between what this decision means for country music, the industry the awards and CMA; and what it means for the city,” says Benson. “Those have to be looked at differently. Country music does not belong solely to Nashville, it is the nation’s music. We had hoped to placate our friends in Nashville by rushing back and letting them know we would return in ‘06 for the 40th Anniversary. But this one-time deal is important and nothing anyone in Nashville is going to say will change our minds. Sometimes you have to be wanted by someone else before you get appreciated.”

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 11 Oct 2004 8:23 pm

Its good to see that the corporate guys in Nashville are just as full of crap as the corporate guys in NYC.

This might be a good excuse for some of you Nashville people to visit NYC. This is a truly great city. If you get the chance to take a trip up here you just might love it.

Bob

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 12 Oct 2004 12:35 am

and don't forget Famous Original Rays Pizza or Ray Barri's Pizza...it will be worth the trip just for the Pizza !

Oh and you could go Downtown for a Nathans Hot Dog and really stretch the good time..

t

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 12 Oct 2004 1:13 am

or "Two Boots" pizza also.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 12 Oct 2004 5:22 am

CMA Executive Director Ed Benson - “The wish of the creative community is to make a better living out of what they do... I can’t figure out how one can differentiate between the interests of our board and the creative community."
I think that says it all. Some people simply can't understand that there's any reason whatsoever to play music besides making money at it.