Steel players nightmare

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 16 Aug 2004 11:00 am

Or eat some of that spicy chicken dish you fed me one time at your home before that one gig we did together. Then after I sit on him I can "enhance" the experience for him.

b0b, to top it off, we'd all give them odd stares like "what the heck is wrong with you?" One of the guitar players even walked up to one of them on break and said "I thought you said you could play? You don't even know which harmonica to use in the key of C!!!" I just about bust a gut and had to run off and laugh in the corner behind my bass amp. [This message was edited by Chris Forbes on 16 August 2004 at 12:03 PM.]

Wayne Franco · Post by **Wayne Franco** » 16 Aug 2004 11:08 am

Just yesterday I left a really nice Washington State Swing Society get together where they were inducting new members into the hall of fame. I traveled quite a ways to get there and promised a friend in would be at a big jam session for a party commorating him for 50 years of playing music in the area. It turned out just horrible. There was a blues harmonica player who absolutely wouldn't shut up AND a Saxiphone player who was very close to never stopping to play although the blues harmonica players certainly takes the prize. I hope it doesn't happen again for a long time. Constant doodling also absolutely drives me nuts!!!!!!!!

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 16 Aug 2004 11:32 am

Chris heres' a suggestion and I've done this more than once. Just sit back and don't play for a little while. If the guy has any intelligence he'll realize that HES' doing ALL the work but ya'll are getting the same money.

If that doesn't work, just get up, go to the bar, get a drink and sit down out front and try to enjoy the show. The band leader will then get wise to what is going on and come and ask you, "What do you think you are doing"? You say, "Earning my money, its just alot more comfortable out here. You obviously didn't hire ME to play pedal guitar, you just wanted my guitar to sit on the bandstand so you could say you've got a "steel in the band"." Then maybe the band leader will listen and make the appropriate changes.

If none of that works, look at it as sitting on your rear for 4 hours and getting paid to do nothing.

I too would be surprised if a harmonicy player could tell 10 HZ difference in tuning.

Melvin Farmer · Post by **Melvin Farmer** » 16 Aug 2004 5:15 pm

Lloyd Green was playing a reunion years ago in Mobile, Al with his now well known sd/10 and a guy noticed he was just sitting there doing nothing. Why aren't you playing, the guy asked. Lloyd replied, it's not my turn yet. Nuff said. Would it not be great to play with a group of guys like that? After reading the last sentence of this post after I posted it, I realized it was not what I was thinking or trying to say, so I'm removing it. No disrespect meant to any keyboard players. Thanks, Melvin Farmer[This message was edited by Melvin Farmer on 17 August 2004 at 06:09 PM.]

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 17 Aug 2004 4:13 am

Ya know Bill, I tried that, I put my bar down, sat back, folded my hands and stared at the fiddle player. He just smiled at me and kept right on playing, I guess he thought I was enjoying his inspired playing. I'm going to try the "music is supposed to be a conversation" tack this saturday night. All else fails, I will use Mr. Gimble's suggestion, I'll just make sure to have my dinner at Taco Bell first. I'll let all you guys know how it went, wish me luck!!!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 17 Aug 2004 4:49 am

My long term solution is to practice harder so that I can better gigs with better musicians. I can't think of a time when a crappy musician actually changed into a good one after hearing some helpfull advice.

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Bob
intonation help

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 17 Aug 2004 6:37 am

I have a beef with keyboard players who think its a rhythm instrument

Melvin, the keyboard is a rhythm instrument, and a very important one. But just like the guitar, it has to be played in a rhythm instrument style, bass note/chord. NOT single notes that interfere with other lead players.

Randy Reinhard, monster pianist as well as steel player, often refrains from taking a piano solo because it removes the keyboard sound from the rhythm mix.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 17 Aug 2004 8:31 am

File this post under "comments from the peanut gallery". I'm not an experienced bandstand musician of any stature whatsoever, but I believe this all falls to the bandleader. Get a copy of "Live At Billy Bob's Texas", by Merle Haggard and you'll see how it's done with both fiddles and sax. Hag's band leader is none other than the great steel guitarist Norm Hamlet.

I guess this goes along with what Bob Hoffnar posted above. Good musicians understand that there is no "I" in BAND, GROUP, TEAM, or whatever. I marvel at the great musicianship all weekend at Scotty's. They know when NOT to play.

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HagFan

Chuck Halcomb · Post by **Chuck Halcomb** » 17 Aug 2004 12:40 pm

I just finished listening to Johnny Gimble's album, "He keeps me swingin'", and it is clear that Johnny knows how to play within the key and when to either tuck the fiddle or switch to the mandolin. The pedal steel on this album by the way is provided by one of the very best, Maurice Anderson.

Just wanted to note the above to say that we should be somewhat careful when we paint with a brush that it not be too broad. Remember, "If your gona play in Texas, you gotta have a fiddle in the band".

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Remington Steel T-8 Steelmaster
Gibson Console Grande[This message was edited by Chuck Halcomb on 17 August 2004 at 01:42 PM.]

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 17 Aug 2004 6:06 pm

I played a gig where the lead guitar player played on all entro, solos and endings. I just let him go and played rhythmn chords and pass chords. Easiest gig I ever played. Payed $125.00 bucks. I could not believe it when they called me to do another gig, which I declined. Jody.

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 18 Aug 2004 12:06 am

Chris, my band is off for a few weeks to allow all to enjoy some R&R. Where is your gig Saturday, I'll come out to insure you have a great musical experience?

Gary LeeEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 18 Aug 2004 2:24 am

I'm just an amateur but I was excited last year to play in a band with a fiddle player for the first time. That lasted about 30 seconds. Just like all the comments above, he never put the damn bow down - ever. He played soup-to-nuts through the intros, outros and everybody's solos on EVERY song and mostly out of tune. I was surpried how often the fiddle was in my Stringmaster's frequency range and how we canceled one another out in the mix.

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 18 Aug 2004 2:59 am

Gary, I just blew it off last night, I recommended they ask Bobby Martin to do the gig (ha ha, he's gonna HATE ME!! LOL!!!!). I have an opportunity to take a few days off and get away, so off I go!!! Mighty fortuitous timing I should say!

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 18 Aug 2004 1:21 pm

I woulda taken his fiddle and broken it on his head. Sorry, but thats just me!

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 18 Aug 2004 1:49 pm

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:21 PM.]

John Kavanagh · Post by **John Kavanagh** » 19 Aug 2004 8:46 am

I heard a story that Jefferson Airplane used to have a harmonica player that was good but - because he was either chemically imbalanced or just stupid - never ever stopped playing. They did kee him on stage (he must have been very good), and whenever they wanted a harp solo they'd nod at the SOUND MAN, who would turn his mike channel on. Perhaps he'd open it partway for fills, I don't know. The story goes that the guy was so clueless or wasted that he never caught on.

I have often fantasized about having a volume pedal that controlled someone else's amp. The sax players who are good enough to usefully back up solos, usually don't.[This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 19 August 2004 at 09:50 AM.]

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 19 Aug 2004 12:01 pm

That's fantastic!! I really like your idea about the volume pedal for someone else's amp. Reminds me of when my brother used to take a universal tv remote with him to sports bars and mess with the channels periodically by switching over to Animal Planet or something similiar. I pitied that poor bartender.

Ivan Combs · Post by **Ivan Combs** » 19 Aug 2004 6:07 pm

HEY FELLOWS I HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR YEARS AND FOUND OUT THAT 99% OF THE TIME THAT WHAT EVER INSTRUMENTS IS ON STAGE WANTS TO PUT ANY HOT LICK THAT IT COULD FIND ANYWHERE IT CAN.

IVAN COMBS

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ESnow · Post by **ESnow** » 20 Aug 2004 10:24 am

I know a couple fiddle players that need to read this post. Why can't all players just listen to what is going on around them and play as a unit. When someone is singing a song, a musician's job is to try and compliment what the singer is doing which involves knowing when not to play. Some never learn this and play all over vocals or other instrument fills. That is what seperates players from Great Players. I've always felt that less is more.

Andy Greatrix · Post by **Andy Greatrix** » 20 Aug 2004 2:21 pm

You don't need to be a great player to know when to lay out. The song is always more important than anyone in the band.

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 28 Aug 2004 2:15 am

Well heeeeeeeeeeere we go!! I have a 2-6 today with this fiddle playing idiot at a Lodge in Harper's Ferry. I'll let you guys know if I had to Kung Fu him. It ought to be funny cause it's a hoity toidy kinda joint, they might be horrified by the spurting blood!! LOL!!!!!!!!

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 28 Aug 2004 10:56 am

I worked with a band, not long ago, that had a guitar player, who liked to play slide guitar. Particularly, through my solo's and when I did backup fills.I didn't know for sure what I was hearing, at first. But, then I figured it out. I thought that there was something wrong with my amp, or the PA. I asked the bandleader about it and he sheepishly told me, that, the guitar player was his childhood friend and he didn't want to cause a fuss or upset him. I eventually quit that band, never to return, much happier with my decision.

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 30 Aug 2004 4:12 am

Well, I tried all of the remedies suggested so far and still half way through the second set he still hadn't shut up. So I got up in the middle of a song, repositioned my Nashville 1000 so it was aimed at his head and I let him have it with both barrels. He played less after that, but still did 75% of the fills. I told the bandleader at the end of the night that I wouldn't be available for any more gigs that the fiddle player was on, life is too short.

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 1 Sep 2004 6:49 am

It's pretty funny how the comedy quotient is off the charts whenever threads about harmonicas and fiddles are concerned. Two things come to mind: basically as soon as I see someone with a harmonica on the bandstand, I know it's going to be a rough night. I have yet to be proven wrong. This was the case even with a dude who was playing Django Reinhardt and Charlie Christian charts with us. Incredible player, but played every fill on every song.

Bob, I have to agree with you, few are the musicians who when given advice take it, my goal also is to play with the people who know just what to do without anyone saying a word. When that is happening, I don't think there's any better thing in the world.

One sort of exception that proves the rule type thing, I was listening to some albums that featured JD Manness, and that guy never stopped playing, yet somehow it works. Maybe it's because he plays with such nuance and taste and has so many ideas to draw on the steel doesn't become obtrusive when he's behind it.

Charles Turpin · Post by **Charles Turpin** » 1 Sep 2004 1:17 pm

Playing with fiddle or Sax players that over play is very annoying i know. But what about lead guitar players that do the opposite. I had a Boss man one time at a local show. That he would let you improvise on any new song that came out. Then his wife , the singer of the group had to have everything just like the record. Now this Boss was a former bluegrasser, and i could play all the new licks that where coming out on the guitar as well. Sometimes on Saturdays right before the show all the way from 2in the evening till,6 in the evening this boss and i would get together i was showing him the new stuff. Then from 6 till 7 everyone came in and we rehearsed what everyone else wanted to do on the show. We all went and ate from 7 till 8. Every week end you know how it is at one place like this you play new songs every week if you can. But after all that practice about the middle of the show the Wife is announced to do the new song. The boss man turns to you for his parts and reaches down on his guitar and turns his volume down and pretends he is playing. You just take your foot off the volume pedal then transpose his part while he is playing through dead sound then your part comes in and you put your foot on the gas and play your part to.I guess that is how i learned so many guitar parts on pedal steel ..But this did get aggravated at times. We never no what goes on behind closed doors at some of these shows

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