Steel players nightmare

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 14 Aug 2004 5:54 am

Well, I can't believe I made this long w/o it happening, but it finally did saturday night. I had to do a gig with a fiddle player WHO WOULDN'T SHUT UP!!! I gave up trying to play fills after the 4th song. I mentioned to him after the first set that he gave me no room to play, and he continued to play in every available spot in every song. Would you believe he even played during other peoples solos!?!? Sigh, oh well, at least I made my $50 plus tips.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 14 Aug 2004 6:16 am

Chris, Did he get bigger tips than you? Joe

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 14 Aug 2004 7:30 am

That's EXACTLY why I don't carry a fiddle in my swing band anymore. Couldn't find one who would SHUT UP between solos and trade appropriately with others on fills. It was MADDENING. So now we've replaced fiddle with sax and it's going great. Sax players know when to just shut up, take the sax out of their mouths, and just smile.

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 14 Aug 2004 8:03 am

I hear ya Jim!! If my hands aren't even on the steel more than 1/2 the time, how hard is it for a fiddle player to put it under their arm every once in a blue moon? Joe, unfortunately the fiddle player did a version of Devil Went Down to Georgia so the idiot bandleader thinks he's the greatest thing since sliced bread and crowd did put a few bucks in the tip jar because of that. Ugh!!!! I need to go talk to Ralph on the big white phone.

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 14 Aug 2004 8:31 am

Call me prejudiced if you want, but 9 times out of 10 when I see a fiddle or sax player on stage in a bar I know what's coming. Every one I've ever played with just does not know when to shut up. Sax and fiddle make lousy rhythm instuments, but they keep on trying anyway.

Of course, maybe the problem is that these people are fiddle players, or sax players, and not MUSICIANS.

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Artie McEwan

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 14 Aug 2004 8:57 am

My nightmare typically involves harmonica players.
Same horrific event though.

Some of my newer lines go like...
"So where is your box of percusion instruments?
{funny look}
"Yeah, all the best harmonica players have a few shakers or maracas or something to play while the other instrument players are doing fills or solos."
And then I add the finely crafted phrase...
"Ya know that, don't ya?"

For fiddle...
"I've noticed that all the best fiddle players just put the fiddle under their arm when they've finished their solo or verse of fills."
[usually followed by]
Oh, I like to just play rhythm "chucks" (demonstrating how they hit the bow on the strings on the down beat).
Me: "Dude, I'm gonna smash that F'n thing if... (or in the case of harmonica) Dude, I'm gonna hafta ram that thing down yer throat if..."

All this is followed by my standard speach...
"Playing music is like having a conversation. You can't have a good conversation if everyone is talking at once, or if any ONE is doing all the talking."
"Now, if you want to be certain that it's your turn to play, just look over and you'll see that my hands are not touching my instrument."
"I'll look over to you for the same signal."

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 14 August 2004 at 10:00 AM.]

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 14 Aug 2004 9:20 am

Or the fiddle/violin player approaches a solo like a video game, a chord pops its head up and he annialates it with notes...

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 14 Aug 2004 10:15 am

Pete, I played bass in a blues band for a while and we would have maaaaaaany harmonica players want to sit in. Of course the vast majority of them were horrible. So, after dealing with this for a few months, we started tuning to 430 instead of 440, it was hysterical to watch the harmonica idiots try to figure out what was wrong!!!! They would invariably end up scratching their heads and would leave the stage and sit down and shut up. Oh those were priceless moments!!!!!!! Oh, and Chas, that comparison is funny as all get out![This message was edited by Chris Forbes on 14 August 2004 at 11:16 AM.]

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 14 Aug 2004 1:38 pm

LOL Chris! Great tactic!

FWIW, I've been happy with the fiddlers I've shared the stage with. Lead guitarists are the problem in this area.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Aug 2004 2:36 pm

AHH yes..The Fiddler who would not shut up..Cousin to the Blues Harmonica Player who clearly never shuts up..

I figured out how to shut up the Fiddle player..we did what Jimbeax did..never told him where the gigs were.

The Harmonica players, I still haven't figured out what to do with those weasles.

I like the "Off Tune" scenario as mentioned above but in one of the bands I work with the up front singer plays harmonica, and not well. I think he's still playing and the gig was a few weeks ago..

It drives me nuts..and thats a short trip for me !

t

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 14 Aug 2004 3:17 pm

Since the Portland Metro Area isn't exactly the "hot bed of musical activities"....any more; and, since there's not that many harmonica players in this here neck o'the woods, I surely hope that no one is going to get their feelings hurt by being singled out for their "lack of harmonica playing ettiquete"....... What Next? "Tamborene" or "Triangle players"? Can't we all just get along in this world?
Don't we have enough problems with those pesky drummers and banjer players, now I ask you?[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 14 August 2004 at 04:18 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 14 Aug 2004 3:59 pm

Chris/ Locally years ago in a band I still play with sometimes, a guy named Scotty showed up and played "for free" for a weekend too many. Same as you describe. I learned every stupid pentatonic run you could ever imagine, and figured out the maximum number to be in the thousands. We got together as a group and told the hapless bandleader to tell him to shove off or we were done.

Pete/

I think we are thinking of a similar harmonicat. I couldn't help think of that terrible Nick Berg Beheading video....

...and wondering if my Leatherman™ used with enough gusto would yield similar results..

Ray. You're funny.

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 14 August 2004 at 05:17 PM.]

Dale Bessant · Post by **Dale Bessant** » 14 Aug 2004 6:01 pm

A wise experienced veteran musician told me once"Sometimes its not what you play its what you dont play" I have tried to keep it that way on stage and I believe he's right.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Aug 2004 7:36 pm

A little "Tico Tico" or even "Arkansas Traveler" is usually enough to show the average harmouthica guy that he's out of place on a stage.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 14 Aug 2004 11:51 pm

DISCLAIMER: yadity yadita ya..

OH and Pete.. I remember several funny instances. One was with Lou Soloman a close personal friend of mine.

I was working for Bob Machado with him in a band where the only reason he stayed alive is that nobody but me had the balls to shoot him, and I wanted the money more than I wanted to shoot him.. ANYHOW.. On the Way to the gig the trailer seemed a little light, and Bob allowed as how he needed to stop by H&B Loans.... Well, of course, Bob couldn't produce the FRIGGIN PAWN TICKET, and in the meantime he made an hispanic connection, got the "office stuff" bypassed, I was driving around the block with a beat up 77 chevie PU, and a stolen UHaul pony trailer..

All this only to find out that I was PAYING MONEY to get SOLOMONS ENSONIQ ( Really Steve Wests') out of hock! I think I came as cose to shooting him then as I ever did...

I relayed this to Lou, and it was his last nite with the band before he went and told the management to fire US for firing him..

I challenged him to whomever could play the longest string of Truly Tasteless $____.

I think having the backing of Mr Peavey, that I beat him hands down. I offered a drink to Mr West's Ensoniq as a victory gesture, but he declined.

WE DID get fired, and after that Lou never worked another country gig that I ever heard of.. I never got the chance to blackball him either, his stupid beanie propellor hat did that for him..

Lou and I ARE good friends, and when at the yearly All HArley Drags in Woodburn, somebody noted his 800$ keyboard painted helmet that "He must be a musician".. I found myself unable to speak, and merely dropped to the pavement laughing...

OK.

I like the "Conversation" thing.

My favorite way of answering things that are presented to me in well though out manner is to say

"I hear what you're saying, You're right as you present it, and further more, I find myself actually agreeing with you... but that's just not the way I look at it.." I stole it from Donald Eudaly, an old excavator boss of mine.

Mainly if it's a band that is "part mine" I don't have a lot of wrestling with sensitivity. If it's not mine, I just hope I don't scare myself too bad for what I'd do for a month's electric bill...

I really like playing with people like I have been able to lately where there's a minimum of hassle deciding who plays what, even without "record arrangements".

Anyhow. I really like the "This is like having a conversation". I ask them just who it is I am supposed to be having this conversation with... If they tell me they are REALLY important, then I promise to afford them more respect.. Or I let them say what's on their mind and answer "Whatever...."

Those Leatherman™ guys really outdid themselves with that serrated blade..

EJL

END DISCLAIMER<,,,

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 15 Aug 2004 1:27 am

Played with a fiddler last night who trades 8's, 4's 2's,,
shuts up, and if he does play behind your solo, it is perfect , tasteful,
and you like it.

But some nights he is also off the wall. BOING![This message was edited by David L. Donald on 15 August 2004 at 09:28 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 15 Aug 2004 2:34 am

for my friend Ray Montee..

" Ray..I own a Banjo, it's a friend of mine, and you Sir..Are No Banjo"...

I think George Orwell was off by a few years...

t

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 15 Aug 2004 5:42 am

My problem is with lead guitar players that try to impress me all night with steel licks.

Bob Watson · Post by **Bob Watson** » 15 Aug 2004 10:42 am

Q: When can you tell if a fiddle player is playing out of tune.
A: Its when the bow starts to move.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 15 Aug 2004 4:46 pm

It can happen with any instrument, even steel players. Other than Jimbeaux's solution there are two others. One, you talk to the guy in a civil way in front of the rest of the group - you'll be surprised how often they will support you - and work out some arrangements or signals, prefereably from the leader. The other is to get a really powerful amp and do the same thing.

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 16 Aug 2004 2:38 am

I got no worries as far as a powerful amp goes, I'm sure I could bury the entire band if I wanted. I guess my problem is that I feel it starts to sound like a couple of cats fighting in an alley when more than one instrument is filling at the same time. Of course, unfortunately, some fiddle players sound like that all by themselves!!! I just got an e-mail and see that I have another gig with the same line-up. Maybe I'll try some of the above suggestions, if that doesn't work I guess I'll just politely decline future gigs that this fiddle player is on, life is too short for me to deal with this.

Earl Erb · Post by **Earl Erb** » 16 Aug 2004 5:33 am

I know how keep a guitar player from over playing...PUT A PIECE OF SHEET MUSIC IN FRONT OF THEM!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 16 Aug 2004 9:13 am

So, after dealing with this for a few months, we started tuning to 430 instead of 440, it was hysterical to watch the harmonica idiots try to figure out what was wrong!!!!

I'm surprised they even noticed!

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 16 Aug 2004 10:48 am

Chris, next time just politely take his fiddle away and proceed to position him on the floor. Then simply sit on him. Maybe he'll get the message then?