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Topic: New liabilities |
John Steele (deceased)
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 27 Apr 2003 3:55 pm |
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| Shucks. Half of their stuff I've listened to...you can't understand what they're singin', anyway! Oh well, it's good to know there's still some young 'uns out there listening to the words in rock music...surprising, actually. |
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Paul King
From:
Gainesville, Texas, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2003 6:44 pm
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| I am not surprised. Rock music was always a bunch of noise to me, and not only not hear them sing but I never could understand what they were saying. Only in America can you sue anyone for anything you want to. I would bet the guy comes to sing sober from now on...Paul |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 28 Apr 2003 4:21 am
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Pretty interesting..I think I would agree with the plaintiffs here.
They advertise, you pay..they don't deliver..
they still get all the money ? uhmm...
Looks like they really torqued someone off who is willing to go the extra mile here..
I think it's a good message to send...
I went to a 1/2 Eagles show several years ago, Joe Walsh and Glenn Fry..with a backup band.
Glenn Fry was to sick ( hangover reported the next day ) to sing, perform or even stand on the bandstand. So he left the stage after the first song. It turned into a Joe Walsh show exceept he didn't sing his regular array of songs. He was singing basic R+R songs, Johnny B Goode and sorts, and he didn't even play much guitar, the two band members did all the lead guitar solo's..It was on ok average show, just with Joe Walsh singing instead of a totally unknown singer.
I didn't ask for my money back..I won the tickets on a radio show..
tp
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Jason Odd
From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 29 Apr 2003 7:10 am
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Some years ago San Francisco based sludge rockers the Melvins (heavy metal is too lame a term for them) were out here and I saw their third and last show of the run.
For the third show they decided to do a rahter interesting array of their more off the wall material (and believe me, they're too weird for 99% of metal and rock fans), they swapped instruments, did some truly whacked out covers and generally went nuts.
I thought I'd gotten the best night, but in that case it was a focused band cutting wild and just simply having a good time.
The audience loved it.
However, if the singer/guitarist (and drummer, bassist that night) was simply rolling around drunk or whatever. I would have been pissed.
As much as I find people looking for a complete replication of a studio product to be totally unrealistic, I can understand when something is so appalling and bad, that it's just not acceptable.
Ridiculous extremes at some rock gigs have had me swearing that the sound was awesome at the front, while everyone at the back later bitched that the mix was terrible.
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2003 9:01 am
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| Anybody who goes to a Creed show deserves what ever they get. A vocal coach I know here in L.A. who is always talking about your "head voice" and "chest voice" etc,describes Creed's singer as singing with his "chin voice". To me he sounds so affected,put on and ridiculous as to be compared to the proverbial $h!+ salesman with a mouthful of free samples. -MJ- |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2003 9:41 am
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Didn't Hank Williams Jr. do the same thing as Creed. He showed up late and drunk for a concert, couldn't sing any of the songs and left the stage after fifteen minutes.
Then the County seized his plane until he paid back everyone. I think that one was a class action law-suit.
And George Jones has been sued for not showing up for concerts. I think those were filed by the promoters. |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 29 Apr 2003 11:27 am
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Went down today and bought a Boss Turbo Overdrive. Theoretically, it will turn my two Sessions into a 450watt "Stack of Marshalls". I think it is going to open up a whole new world of complaints and/or liabilities.
I just re-enrolled in my Montgomery Ward Legal Services program...
Just in case anybody gets any ideas..
See you in court.
EJL |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 9 May 2003 5:28 pm
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I guess, in legal terms, it boils down to how the show was advertised. If the posters/ads said "APPEARING TO-NITE, LIVE, ON-STAGE!", then all they really had to do was show up. Of course, if the posters/ads included the words ...DOING ALL THEIR HIT SONGS", then the fans might have a case. The letter of the law is real specific when it comes to someone's "interpretation" of what was expected. This is why my friend, the contract lawyer, gets $600-$1200 an hour.
Of course, if the Judge hates R&R music, and thinks half the audience was smashed anyway (a good probability), he might throw out the case regardless of how the event was promoted, or what kind of job the band did.
At any rate, the moral and societal benefits of any "rock-concert" are kinda hard to substantiate.  Basically, they're just a spectacle that hormone-rich teens and young adults will pay dearly to experience. |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 9 May 2003 6:22 pm
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Well... Another memory Jog.
It's the
Great S%!# Howdy Le$bian Lawsuit.
Will post it when I get back from the gig tonite.
Somebody will get a kick out of it I'm sure.
EJL |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 May 2003 10:50 am
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I forgot about my stint as "F Lee West"..
The Great S%!# Howdy Le$bian Lawsuit (c)2003
Back in 90-91, I worked with Merle's Nephew Tracy Barton in a band called Country Company. It was really the first band that I didn't do much more than show up, play, take the money and go home. Tracy is and was a fine voacalist, with a "Merle heavy" songlist, so it was great. People loved it. Same 60 songs every night. The Guitar Player, Buster Newberry, is my all time favorite for being in tune, on time, and seeming to know just when and how to trade leads, split fours, and do harmony lines. I don't think I had to look at him in the two years we played together more than a couple times. Drums were by Johhny Barnett, son of "the" Barnett guy from Bakersfield.
Our Female Vocalist was Mary Curtis, who I had played with in a couple bands., Crossroads, RW Stone, ( where I met Bob Knight in Spokane one year) Me and the Boys, Mountain Reign, and a couple others.
Things kind of degenerated I guess as they sometimes do. I have probably helped destroy a hundred bands, and I lost track as to how I did this particular one..
Mary was kind of pissy about not rehearsing, and was kind of stupid when it came to the "tax thing" and when she exclaimed that "we were lucky" that she needed some extra money that year so she was playing with us.. (91) Well, the concensus was, and I told her that it was basically up to "us" just how "lucky" we were. The All Merle and a few chick songs was OK with me, as I was paving 50-60 hrs a week. Anyhow, she quit about the time or shortly after we fired her, replacing her with Ron Barnes, THE best trumpet player that I know of anywhere, least of all Oregon. He played keys and Sax, ( the b@nj0 of the wind instruments) an sang well.
Mary's way of parting with the band was to go around, not only to the places "she" booked and telling them that they no longer "had the band they thought they did" but all the others. We had to "re audition" at Jubitz, Riccocos, and Mr B's in Troutdale. ( Thanks again Mary..) Needless to say, we "passed" and worked out the dates, getting others.
The Exception was Mr Bs, where one of Mary's girl friends was the manager. It was owned by a large Corp, Burns Brothers.
Time passed....
In the meantime, when the band came "Maryless" to Mr Bs, and tried to book future dates, the Club Manager pronounced that all future bookings of that year would be decided at a "Showcase". (I didn't really get that, or I'd not have participated.) We played it and were told before we plugged in, that it was a "Contest for the next six month's bookings". Hmmm.. Anyhow we played, and according to the judges we polled, Country Company "won" hands down. Well it got kind of cheezey as the "competition" moved on, and Mary was out "lobbying" these "judges" and getting a cheering section together for a band "Rocking Horse" that she knew people in. When the "applause meter" and the "judges' tally" got known she stomped out in disgust. (So much for the Aquarian "universal truth and fairness doctrine..)
Anyhow. Votes were given to The Manager, and she got up to announce the "winner". She thanked everybody for their participation, and said that she just couldn't make a "decision" and decided to book "everybody". We got some dates, a way's down the line, and pretty skinny.. No problem. Once we knew what was going on, it was pretty much a "no brainer".
CC was the band that week of a two week gig, and the next week we played as usual. No big deal.
We'd played there about a week of a two weeker, and things were kind of tense. It was a "Line Dance" place besides a truck stop, and during a familiar little deal, Tracy would say like the "Cotton Eyed Joe 'Stepped in what?'" deal, he'd have the crowd holler "S#@t Howdy!" kind of a call-response thing. You know..
Well, one night Mary's manager-girlfriend had Tracy go back to the office, and apon returning, he told us that we'd been fired.
"Profanity" was the reason. We weren't really too surprised.
We went on about out business playing in the other clubs, and me immersed in my hellish day job hauling asphalt mix from the Fiery Furnace. We played out our jobs in other clubs for a while. I forget when we "dissolved" but it was a while after that.
Tracy called one day and asked if I'd go to court over the "firing". I said sure. Seems he'd read the contracts they'd signed, and they put "sole control" of the band members and the show in the hands of the band leader.
We showed up in court. All of us, a couple "witnesses" and went through a half a day of mandatory "mediation" where the Corporation Lawyer(s) outlined all kinds of precedents, etc, and the Mediator advised Tracy to drop the suit. I sat with him as kind of a Hillbilly Roy Cohn, and kept telling him that they had no case, and to go in front of a judge. Finally the Corp, and the mediator relented, and we all went out in the hall to wait.
We sat there for some time,(playing with the pencils on the bench) with all our stuff, witnesses Tape players with "the Rodeo Song" as performed by other bands there at B's, and all kinds of stuff. Kind of an Alices' Restaurant" scene.
In court, the Judge cut through most of it, referring to the contract etc. and wanting to know the particulars of "the contest". I realised at that point that Oregon Courts look at "sham contests" pretty dimly, and we certainly "had enough witnesses" for that part of "our case" and told him so with my hand over the mike.. Tracy decided not to pursue that part.
The phalanx of Corp Lawyers flanked Sharon, the Manager, giving her prompts etc, as I sat, realising that I was free to act as "attorney" to Tracy. I put my hand over the mike once or twice, like I'd seen on TV, and would tell him what to say to answer the questions. I could see that the Corp Lawyers, and Manager were just steaming.. ( Lots of money going down the drain as they sat there..)
It ended up the Judge saying that he'd heard enough.
In a memorable "Opinion" he delivered without "retiring to his chamber" he cleared his throat and looked at Tracy..
"S#8! Howdy!?" huh?." everybody laughed quietly.. Smiling, he went on. "You know, my wife and I go out dancing all the time. We find that phrase to be pretty non-offensive." after a long pause for the laughter to die down.
"I find for the plaintiff. All wages for the contracted period."
About the time the gavel hit the desk, Tracy couldn't help himself and exclaimed "S#%! Howdy:!. The Judge retired with a big smile on his face.
The club manager, an the few thousand bucks worth of attorneys, red in the face, retired. I remember us kind of heckling them as we walked down the hall, chorusing the "tag".
None of us musicians wanted Tracy to split the "award" with us, though he offered it. It was just enough fun watching those high dollar lawyers and the Manager choke.
Tracy was banned from the club "forever", ( I told him he should document it and sue them for "ruining his career" for a million bucks.) I played in several bands after that.
The Club Manager got fired, and subsequently went to Jubitz, where she got fired in less than a month. ( Hmm...)
As usual, I seemed to have outlived the whole bunch, The Corp, half the musicians, and went on to pursue the things I ended up pursuing..
I never took the time to pursue the "F Lee West" possibilities defending downtrodden trailer trash pickers against exploitation by "Evil Corporate Entities". By now, had I taken that path, half the club owners and managers would be living under bridges wishing they'd payed the bands I'd have defended more money...... As it is, they're living there cluelessly...
I decided to stay a Republican.
Tracy, Buster, Johnnie, and Ron Barnes are "Still Pickin". Good as ever, last time I checked.
So am I. (Looking Damn good for my age too.) (Hoping to add a few licks once my Franklin Speed Picking CD's get here..)
EJL
[This message was edited by Eric West on 10 May 2003 at 04:10 PM.] |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 10 May 2003 1:05 pm
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Eric, priceless. You should get a publisher for this stuff.  |
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