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Topic: Dale Watson's Steeler Re-visited!! |
Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2002 8:50 am |
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Joey made a comment from the last topic that I have to address in a general way; he said:
quote:
"I find it sad that artists that record with a Steel tour without it. It hurts us all.
Not just the players, but the listening public who need more exposure to our instrument."
I certainly agree that it Hurts us all; but it is not the Artist fault. It "IS" the listening public that depicts this situation in many ways.
I've played countless shows with Dale and only 10 folks showed up....Yep that is pathetic. Why is this?? Well mostly because they didn't know he was there and/or never heard of him; or didn't choose to go for one reason or another. I've never met a person that has heard Dale or Heather Myles or Jake Hooker or I can insert 50 more names of singers of Country music today; that didn't immediately fall in love with the Music>; but you have never heard of them...and why is that??? You don't get to> That's why!!
The reason you (in general) don't get to hear them; is they are not accessible through publicity....(no air play; no posters; no interviews)and record companies and distributors and publicist can't sink money into this because the revenue is NOT there....and folks are buying the product because they don't know about it because they haven't heard about it or heard them..so they can't sink money.....bla bla bla....you see how this goes around in a circle via "catch-22"????.
Well there you have it.....That is the situation and that is why the shows are less than what should be....wheather it being the crowd(supporters)or instrumentation......
Dale; Heather..etc.....can't afford a 4th or 5th piece.....because 10 folks are showing up at the gigs....and not buying the product...and not supporting Country music.
Do you think I want to be up every morning at 6am(after playing music all night locally) to teach some lady Golf because she is embarrassing her husband; cause she doesn't really want to play in the first place???"Hell no I don't".....but economy dipicts the income I have to have to survive...and I can't survive(progress my life)...playing Music full time(it's ok money) but the big money in music touring is with the folks that are KILLING country music.....becuase that's what you get to hear and see and know about....and that is NOT country music.....so real country music suffers tremendously......so does the instrumentation.
Dale can't just hire a steel player to come out on a one week notice.....I don't know any steel player that can learn 200 Original Songs in one weeks time.....and I don't wish that frustration to have to play that on the steel in front of 10's of people  > on anybody.
It takes a long time to know this gig with Dale(ask any steel player that has sat in with Dale)...and to just come out and have a steel at his gig and not knowing all that has manufactured into his original music at his shows....is NOT a fun time for anyone...and the Music Will suffer.....as Dale knows this and at the end of the night.....that steel player will know it also.
There is NO bigger fan of the Steel guitar than Dale Watson.....and if you don't believe me......Listen to his CD's and listen to his shows when I'm playing....and that will tell you.
....and Because Dale is such a Fan.....is the reason he would rather not have a Steel in there....if it cannot be prepared the right way......and to me......"That saves the true art of Country Music".......otherwise you can just have a bunch of Sh!!-head garage band idiots up there just hackin' away at mindless stupid music stuff; just to further the instrument>"I think NOT.....well heck; just turn on your radio.....and hear Just That.
So support Real Country Music......and just maybe you might get to hear it the way you would like for it to be.....
Otherwise; it will go NOwhere....and You killed it.....not the artist.
Ricky[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 18 October 2002 at 10:02 AM.] |
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Reggie Duncan
From:
Mississippi
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Posted 18 Oct 2002 9:12 am
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| You sure said a mouth full, Rick! |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2002 9:26 am
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I guess I do have a mouth full sometime...ha.....
Also here is the lastest insert from Dale Watson in his News section of his Website....and this would be from the "horses mouth"....
http://www.dalewatson.com/menu_news.htm
Ricky[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 18 October 2002 at 10:29 AM.] |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 18 Oct 2002 11:34 am
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I can't disagee Ricky.
My comment didn't mention names, but I will now. Denna Carter.
Remember her hit "Strawberry Wine" a few years ago? Great Steel all over it. But she toured without a Steel!!
She had the big-time airplay, exposure, venues, etc.
Still no Steel!!!
I've seen this occur with several artists.
Sad. |
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Dennis Atkins
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota
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Posted 18 Oct 2002 3:54 pm
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Why to go Ricky. If anybody saw tonights report on ABC News, then you will also understand what Ricky said. They pretty much dittoed everything that Ricky mentioned. The end catch to the report was that the industry thinks that the Dixie Chicks, with their new CD will turn things around for country music.
If the music from O Brother, didn't do the trick, then what will. I know from my own experience, that the demographics for current country music radio is under age 35. If you want to hear good classic country radio, you need to listen to some independent stations, such as WVAL (800 AM) from Sauk Rapids, MN. Or, on Saturday afternoon from 1:00 to 3:00 (Central Time), a radio program called Good n'Country, which is available on the internet at www.kfai.org, featuring my friend Ken Hippler as country DJ.
I am from Minnesota, although now living in Colorado, and in Sandstone, MN is a small 300 seat theater called Midwest Country, and when they have such people as Bill Anderson, Connie Smith, Gene Watson, Dale Watson, Billy Walker, Jean Shepard, Stonewall Jackson, and others, the place is sold out for two shows. Of course, the audience is over 40, but it should say something to the promoters that there is still an audience for country music.
Let's hope that somehow these record producers, promoters and DJ's see the light as to who is really wanting some good old country music.
Thanks for letting me comment.
Dennis
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MSA S-10 Sidekick
Gorilla Amp with Digitech RP100 Processor
pedalman@msn.com
www.geocities.com/mnpedalman/index.html
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 18 Oct 2002 4:31 pm
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Ricky wrote:
| Quote: |
| "So support Real Country Music......and just maybe you might get to hear it the way you would like for it to be....." |
Ricky, dear friend, I reread your post many times and I have to ask just how far do you think we should take this advice.
Suppose the singer decides not to carry a band at all and just bring canned tracks?
I wouldn't support such a show. IMO, if the promoters see attendance is not adversly affected by the lack of a band, they will encourage the artist to never hire any musicians. That's how karoke has killed many small venues.
This is not that far-fetched. A few years ago the late-great Waylon perfomed in a local 2000 seat hall, without any band, just prerecorded tracks. I'm a big fan, but I didn't attend.
Best regards,
-j0ey-
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Ken Lang
From:
Simi Valley, Ca
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Posted 18 Oct 2002 7:31 pm
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So Ricky, after the backswing and the sit down, does the right leg push start the down swing, or do the arms start down first with the hip turn following?
This is a serious question, for life after music. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2002 11:27 pm
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Ken; the Right leg push starts; and hips will follow as you are thinking about carrying that postions(the triangle)lead by the left hand(for a righty)as one unit...then the release to both arms extending through the ball contact; will continue those hips through to the weight on left foot and finish position(must be hit and held for 3 mississippi)>Ok that will be 80.00 dollars please just kiddin' it's on the house.
Dennis; what ABC special?? did I miss something good on TV(I never turn it on anyway)while I was out playing???
Joey; my Brother...Man> I hear ya....and feel what you feel...it is quite frustrating, and it "IS" up to us to not stand for less than what should be.
Yes there was steel on her songs...but did you like the song??lyrics??Melody??and was it normal for her and in the same feeling of the rest of her CD's?? if not; than that's your answer.
I don't believe in someone wearing someone elses Hat for a while; just to apease a crowd or create a feel for out-of-their-character motives.
Meaning....you can tell someones influences and direction through their whole CD....and I highly doubt some of those you mentioned is something you would enjoy hearing all their songs or most for that matter.
I know each one of the young ladies of the Dixie Chicks very well....as I knew all the original Dixie Chicks quite well too....and each one of the new ones will tell you; that their CD's in the past were mainly to Mainline the market with alot of fluff music that is selling.....but that is not the music they are about or ever have been....but now as they are in the driving seat because of the selling of mindless crap...they are now able to cut songs as they wish.....and you are hearing that now.
I was at the recordings....and Lloyd is very very excited about what they are finally getting to do(haven't seen him that excited about producing in a while)...as these are Real songs with real instrumentation.....and you just don't hear that in todays music on the radio.
Now you are...and you are fixin' to hear alot more...just mark my words.....but also listen to the songs.....they are real and you can tell the difference between real feelings and real life; as opposed to mindless babble of songwriters sitting in a room in nashville saying: "would if"..ha
No; do NOT stand for less than what you desire.....but know what you desire....and Joey; I believe you do know....and that is what we have lost and why music has gotten outta hand....is that the public does NOT know and forgot and didn't want to have to worry about it....so they were lead down a path.....but now that path is ending; and what's left???.....Our own thoughts and feelings!!!
So Joey; just what your saying and questioning IS exciting to me; cause you are listening and hearing what you want and don't want.....and buy what you want and don't buy or attend what you don't want....based on your thoughts and your feelings about what YOU take in with YOUR eyes and ears.
And if many more will do this exact thing....we will all get to hear Music the way we really want it and have preserved it in ourselves......and this is where the "Music Comes First".....and it will happen again believe me....and you will hear artist using musicians and singing songs and filling out their band>"BY THEIR CHOICE"......
Ricky
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2002 7:24 am
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Just for the record: I saw Dale and Ricky earleir this year in Middleton Wis. and there was a good crowd. I know it doesn't always happen that way, because I play too. For every good crowd there is probably three more that bite. I can't believe that the crowds wouldn't be great all the time for Dale. One show and I became a Dale fan. Wait a minute, Wait a minute, a Ricky fan too.
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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele
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Ken Lang
From:
Simi Valley, Ca
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Posted 19 Oct 2002 5:35 pm
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We all know Ricky can pick. Not one in a hundred amatur golfers know the swing starts from the right leg, but Ricky can show them I'm sure. Teach them the swing rythum of the last cheaters waltz so they eschew the old shoe wedge.
Ricky, you da man. Luck to ya in your new career.
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2002 2:16 am
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Hey Ken; my Career is still Music.....It's just I teach Golf part time in the Mornings.
Heck I've heard everything from; I'm ON the PGA tour to....I'm cleaning Golf shoes at the local driving range...ha.... >shows how rumors get around.
Anyway...I'm playing music every night....and teaching some Golf lessons in the Morning.....so that's two lives separated by a NAP....well actually two 4 hour naps......yeeeeee haaaaaa.
Ricky |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 20 Oct 2002 6:05 am
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R.D. posted,
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| "I'm ON the PGA tour " |
Now how do these rumors get started??  |
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Robbie Bossert
From:
WESCOSVILLE,PA,U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Oct 2002 2:54 pm
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Gee.........I hope that I didn't sound like a "Mindless, Garage Band Idiot" when I sat in with Dale at the Tin Angel!!!!!! But I do know what Ricky's saying. Dale doesn't work with a set list and if you're not on top of 200 plus songs you're in some deep sh#@. Hell, I had a great time. I think Dale went easy on me........;-)
Robbie Bossert |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 20 Oct 2002 6:21 pm
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Ricky, I agree and disagree with some of your points. Marketing does not work in reverse. You first have to have a good product to be able to sell it. Dale going out with a three piece band is just hurting himself. I know when he played Buffalo there were 15 to 20 of us that I know of that wouldn't go because you weren't there, plus even a four piece band just doesn't cut it on a professional road tour. If you double that 20 to 40 for wives and girl friends then Dale lost a couple of hundred bucks. Enough to pay at least 1 if not 2 more musicians. We have world class Tele players and bands right here in Buffalo that Ricky would find hard to compete with. We have a $50,000.00 winner of the Charlie Daniels Star Search here that plays as good as Vince Gill. His brother is also the North East Guitar competition winner and can blow doors off of Hellecaster material. There are a number of successful Buffalo musicians down in Nashville including Steve Nathan and we are not easily impressed here unless you smoke. You don't go out with a sub standard product and expect sales to happen. Dale going out with a three piece is a sub standard product. If he fails its his own fault.
On the subject of steel replacement, I perfectly agree. Anyone who thinks that they are going to sit in on Dale's material and impress anyone without rehearsal is fooling themselves. An act on Dales level requires knowledge of the arrangements. Also, I think Dale or anyone working without a set list is less than totally professional. Although I've seen it done successfully by groups that have been together for a number years.
Bottom line, I think Dale is responsible for his own crowd loss because of going out on tour with an inadequate band to reproduce
an impressive arrangement that was originally laid down in a studio.
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Graham
From:
Marmora, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 20 Oct 2002 6:59 pm
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Near as I can tell here, most of who Dale is missing at his shows seems to be steel players who won't go 'cause Ricky isn't there. For the most part, the people at Dales' shows are die hard fans, and as such, Dale has a rapport with them that some would call "unprofessional". But what is "unprofessional" about asking the people who buy your music and support you with their attendance what they would like you to play?? That is why Dale doesn't have a playlist, he has a room full of fans who provide the playlist for him. If that is unprofessional, maybe more artists should be doing it instead of giving us one or two hits and then a lot of fill-in material.
Oh, the night my wife and I went out and caught Dale, he came out for 3 encores, so he must be doing something right!! I've seen real "professional" shows in the arena where I work who don't do so much as one!!
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Rebel™
ICQ 614585
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2002 12:35 am
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Thanks Graham and you are correct my Brother.
No Robbie I wasn't refering to you pal...ha....I was refering to anyone/band that just plays with no direction/dynamics in the songs......Dale and the boys had that covered and you just sat in and helped fill a spot.....so I was refering to the whole unit doing that I suppose.
Kevin....as you agree and disagree.....I too agree and disagree with your points well taken.
Anyway we can go round and round.....but Dale has been at it for 24 years.....and he has done it all....(set list; full band; world tours; grand ole opry; major record deals w/Sony; Warner Bro. Audium....etc..)He's had Redd Volkaert; James Burton; Albert Lee;....well heck I can name 6 of the upmost Top players on Guitar;Fiddle;Steel;drums;bass....that has played with Dale Watson.....
I can go on and on about every publicist; booking agencies; record companies and in all forms of everything that has been Dale Watson.....and every single one of them has tried to help Dale....but you wanna know why you don't hear him on the Radio??? "He is Too Freakin' Country".....that's why...point blank.....I can get 3 Presidents of Record companies on the Phone right now(I know them personally)....and they will tell you the same thing!!!...So it doesn't matter if he has a set list...or a steel player or not....don't make a sh!! of difference of him "Makin" it or not....He ain't tryin' to Make it......He is just trying to put out the best music for his fans that he can....and sometimes He just can't because of this reason or that reason.....but if you listen to that man sing....his songs....you will see and hear, that is REAL....he has lived every one of them....and it's not about a bunch of hot pickin' going on around the song(which is fun sometime yeah we have fun)...but it's about Your life....my life....through SONG and that's what Dale Watson is About.
Ricky |
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nick allen
From:
France
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Posted 21 Oct 2002 3:40 am
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This seems to be another of those "steelcentric" (hey, I just made up a word ) problems... IF all you want from a concert (or record) is to hear steel guitar, then fine... only go to shows where you will hear it. If you are interested in the MUSIC... then judge it on what it IS, not which instruments are there. Ricky and Dale together are great, they've worked together a long time, they are simpatico, and it shows... But the steel is only an added spice to the main course, which is (and SHOULD be) the songs and the singer.
I'm sure Dale would like Ricky to still be there full time... I'm sure he would like to find a steeler he could work with as well as he does with Ricky... But until one of those things happens, who can blame him for just concentrating on the songs and his guitar playing? (Ok some people here can, but not me...).
By the way, I believe the Waylon shows referred to above were his scripted "audiobiography" shows, which were not strictly speaking concerts... and in his book, Waylon said it was an experiment, until he realized he wasn't happy working that way... (I'm not sure if it was actually backing tracks, or just Waylon with an acoustic guitar...)
Nick
P.S. In case it's not clear - I too would sooner see Dale PLUS Ricky... but Dale plus bass & drums would be good too... and maybe even better than Dale plus a steel player who didn't know the parts down pat, and was forced to just play "generic" fills. All IMHO... [This message was edited by nick allen on 21 October 2002 at 04:42 AM.] |
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nick allen
From:
France
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Posted 21 Oct 2002 3:49 am
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I wrote the above BEFORE reading Dale's message on his website - (linked by Ricky above). I think it says all that needs to be said as far as he is concerned
Nick |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 21 Oct 2002 9:27 am
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| This is ashame and it really shows how out of touch the record industry is with the real country music fans. A new organization needs to be formed to combat the CMA and CMT. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2002 9:40 am
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Kevin; you are absolutely Correct....and is a cryin' shame......but we are all in luck and in for a real treat sooner than you think. And things are changing Right now as we speak.....and record producers/companies.....are getting a huge history lesson/slap in the face.....and it is gunna be just what you want and I want....soon enough.
I do concur with what your saying and feeling Kevin.....and don't worry; it's gunna be great the way we want it to be.
By the way....Here in Austin; we even play Twin Steels at some gigs......so come down here and you will just die from exposure.
Ricky |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 21 Oct 2002 10:04 am
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Kevin,
You said it pretty strong. I agree with your comments.
When I decided not to go to DW's Aug 21st gig in Buffalo he said he was steel-less because a replacement could not be ready in the short time he had.
I assumed he ment a Steel will be worked in.
I was wrong, unless it's RD.
I suspect die-hard Dale fans will go if there's no live musicians at all.
I just don't support that. I don't think we're "hurting country music" by holding onto standards such as wanting live musicians. I think we're helping.
just MHO...
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Craig Stock
From:
Westfield, NJ USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2002 10:13 am
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Robbie, I saw you at the TIN ANGEL in Philly, we only caught the last 4 or 5 songs, we saw Brian Wilson that night up the street. You did a fine job, I've seen Dale and Ricky a few times and knowing how long they have played together is understandable as to how their show is. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Some of us never even laeve the garage.
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Regards, Craig
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Janice Brooks
From:
Pleasant Gap Pa
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Posted 21 Oct 2002 11:18 am
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| Just for the record I was a dale fan before Ricky was there. I'd go regardless. |
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Perry Hansen
From:
Bismarck, N.D.
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Posted 21 Oct 2002 12:38 pm
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| If Dale ever gets this far north I'll definatly go. |
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