The PBS Jazz Series

Bob Kagy · Post by **Bob Kagy** » 10 Jan 2001 11:12 am

I wonder if anybody else is watching this?

I'm really enjoying this series. Wynton Marsalis is one of the narrators and has a personality and earthy eloquence that offers a lot of connection with this music. You can see he loves his subject, and his style is bound to make you smile and feel good (his music does the same, and I'm one of his fans).

I don't expect to see any steel guitar, but that's OK. I'm happy to listen to Emmons, Anderson, Jernigan, Rugg, Taillefer and others on my CD player. But the music on the series really swings.

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 10 Jan 2001 11:40 am

I've been watching. Really great so far, I agree. And yes, Wynton is very entertaining.

Last night's episode was great, with Amstrong and Ellington. True Giants, in my opinion.

I'm always amazed at how Ken Burns' films are so gripping and moving when well over 50% of the time it's just voice overs over still photos!

On the (admittedly small) negative side, I've heard that the series kind of falls short after '61 though, and condenses 61 through now into one episode. (But nothing important happened in the jazzworld after '61 right?

)

(that last bit's a joke, before anybody freaks on me...)

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 10 Jan 2001 12:28 pm

Great show. My thanks to forumite Rick Schmidt for the heads-up.
There was a discussion some time ago amongst forumites. The paraphrased topic was "What's the big deal about Louis Armstrong?"

I was hoping some of those forumites were watching last night as Wynton so eloquently rhymed off a half-dozen of Louis' most important contributions; including the cohesive jazz solo, defining instrumentation and combos, influencing the other types of music in the country with swing phrasing, extending the range of the trumpet, scat singing, and several other points.
It's hard to look back and realize many of the things we take for granted now were once unheard of.
-John

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 10 Jan 2001 12:35 pm

If Ken Burns would only do a docupic on Steel Guitar....*sigh*

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 10 Jan 2001 4:32 pm

For once I'd like to see something on Jazz, that actually has a section on 'Hillbilly Jazz.'
Why not a section on Western Swing, or at least some of the guys who went from Western swing sidemen to full time jazz artists.

I think I know the series you've posted about Bob, I have heard it is very good, or at least the start of it, the first parts.

Tim Rowley · Post by **Tim Rowley** » 10 Jan 2001 5:26 pm

Yes! I've been watching this series on PBS and it is very informative and enjoyable. Like many of you, I wish PBS would do a 10-hour series on Western Swing but I'm not holding my breath. I'll venture that 75% of today's PBS viewers (read "east of the Mississippi River" or "north of the Mason-Dixon line" or "urban" or "too young to remember") don't know or care what western swing music is, and a similar or even larger percentage of musicologists have also chosen to ignore Western Swing, if not to altogether deny its existence as a distinct musical form. To me, this is all the more reason that an in-depth documentary series on Western Swing music needs to be done.

I've got Charles Townsend's book and Hugh Cherry's tape series on Bob Wills. Are either of these guys still around to narrate and/or produce a PBS television series? How much film footage of live original Western Swing performances still exists? Quite a bit, I would think. I do know of one fellow with expertise and strong PBS connections who would make an ideal narrator for a Western Swing series: Les Gilliam of Ponca City, OK. Anybody else have thoughts or comments on this?

Tim R.

Janice Brooks · Post by **Janice Brooks** » 10 Jan 2001 6:02 pm

I saw a little of this last evening and just turned on PBS. I thought it was interesting how Louis Armstrongs wife pushed him beyond
Olivers band in Chicago.

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Janice "Busgal" Brooks
ICQ 44729047

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 10 Jan 2001 8:53 pm

When Wynton did the improv thing on his horn tonight, I damn near wet myself!

Tim, they'll grant your wish in about 10 years.

'listening to Stevie's Sir Duke!'

Louis and Duke Ellington were the Jimmy Hendrix of jazz.

What a bizarre metaphor?!
[This message was edited by Marty Pollard on 10 January 2001 at 09:04 PM.]

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 10 Jan 2001 11:17 pm

I haven't seen any of it yet, but I taped all 3 nights and will continue to tape all of it. After I've watched it all I'll loan the tapes to anybody here who wants to watch them.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 11 Jan 2001 1:45 am

Tonite's show was a real joy. I got to hear a great solo that I had forgotten about since I hadn't heard it in 35 years, namely Bix playing "I'm Coming Virginia". He played the best licks right after the narrator told us that Bix died alone in a cheap hotel at the age of 28.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 11 Jan 2001 2:32 am

Jason....there's 7 more episodes to go. I wouldn't be suprised if they at least say something about Western Swing...The show really does seem pretty thorough so far.

Earnest...I could tell, starting with the tragic end of Buddy Bolden ( the first big jazz "star" in New Orleans)... that Ken Burns was preparing us for a recuring theme of guys suffering for their art. As far as I can tell, these guys were the first real honky tonk men.

Craig Stock · Post by **Craig Stock** » 11 Jan 2001 7:17 am

I just heard a live interview with Ken Burns yesterday on my local Jazz station(WBGO) at the Jazz Educators Conference in NYC. (over 10,000 attending).
Ken talked alot about the criticism, but notes that he is a storyteller and while having 900 hrs.worth of material, he had to leave out a few things to get his story across in 19 hrs.
He is happy that people are criticising the show, since one of his objectives is to raise awareness and dialog about Jazz.
I personally love the show and think it is a great history lesson as well nand a great example of how people of all races and religions can unite through music.
I can't wait for Ken's next project, he said that he was brought the idea of doing Jazz from Wynton Marsalis at a speech he gave about blacks in the civil war, and Wynton came up to him and said do something on Jazz. He said he felt a connection with Marsalis. The other thing was that an interviewer of his during the civil war show said that the three things America will be remembered for is The Constitution, baseball and Jazz.

Maybe if one of Steels legends would get Ken's ear, it would plant a seed to do something on the steel or swing or Country music, but he probably has bigger fish to fry these days.

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Regards, Craig

James Bissaillon · Post by **James Bissaillon** » 11 Jan 2001 9:29 am

No time to watch now, so I'm taping all of it. Can't wait to watch it after my winter semester is over!

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 11 Jan 2001 11:52 pm

Just checked the www.pbs.org website, and in the store there, you can by the series on Gold DVD. Expensive at $199.00 ($149.00 VHS), but might be worth it. So far, so good.

John Gretzinger · Post by **John Gretzinger** » 15 Jan 2001 1:49 pm

John -

I've seen the set for sale at my local Costco for $150.

I'm hoping the price will drop after the series is finished, but I'm not holding my breath.

jdg

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MSA D-10
'63 Gibson Hummingbird
16/15c Hammered Dulcimer

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 16 Jan 2001 2:17 pm

Earnest, + those of you who are into Bix Biederbecke, better read "Really the Blues"
by Milton"Mezz"Mezzrow + Bernard Wolfe
a Bible of those times !
Steel diggin these posts...

HOWaiian · Post by **HOWaiian** » 16 Jan 2001 10:47 pm

crowbear--

thanks for mentioning the Mezzrow book! if only he were as good a player as he was a raconteur. the glossary @ the back of the book is great, too. I couldn't believe how many slang expressions that I thought were of recent vintage are actually as old as dirt.

on the subject of Wynton Marsalis, I'd like to make my feelings known: I hate him. Hate, hate, hate. There are so many jazz authorities who can speak knowledgably, eloquently, and beautifully on the subject, and the best Burns can do is to get this bigmouth yappin' & yappin' some more? c'mon, already!

from what I understand, Burns didn't want Marsalis to commandeer the whole sh'bang, so he asked outside sources for recommendations as to advisors. unfortunately, the recs were for employees on staff @ the Jazz @ Lincoln Ctr. board, handmaids & yesmen all to Wynton.

why do I hate wynton so? because I believe that one of the major themes running thru the history of jazz is change. change lets the music breathe & expand to encompass new thoughts, visions, directions. In short, it gives life, vitality, energy to the music. wynton is, IMHO, the antithesis of change. his view of what "real" jazz is ends at the point where Burns' series does, approximately '61 (to have almost 40 years of jazz history thrown in as an afterthought is flat-out wrong). wynton wants jazz to go no further than its giants of the 40s & 50s brought it, and this is best exemplified in his own music. have you heard his music? he's like a jazz Salieri, forever in the good graces of royalty (the PBS/NEA power establishment), while producing schlock; the ultimate, archetypal hack.

I will grant that Marsalis is doing good things as far as music education in this country is concerned, but my main bone of contention with the Burns series is that it relies too heavily on Wynton & his little gang.

I’m feeling better; the medicine has just now kicked in…..

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 Jan 2001 3:43 pm

An outstanding study. The 5 minutes on Fats Waller just blew me away...GOTTA get me some of his recordings!

Unbelievable!

Ron Castle · Post by **Ron Castle** » 18 Jan 2001 5:15 am

Oh many thanks HOWaiian! I have been watching
the show as well, and reading this thread and deeply resent the role that W.Marsalis has taken as 'spokesman' for the jazz world. I probably could say also that I come close to hating the man, but I don't like to hate.
Marsalis (an excellent classical trumpeter)
has zero credentials in the jazz arena. His jazz palying is warmed over 40's pap, not even executed as good as those that actually
created those licks. There are young guys out
there that really play jazz (Roy Hargrove
comes to mind quickly)
The overwhelming amount of Louis Armstrong in
this series is directly related to W.M.'s
role here, and it does a disservice to jazzman of all era's.
Granted that Armstrongs influence is great, but he really has to be viewed more as a POP phenomena, since he left the jazz scene for
the pop/showbiz scene very early on. (I'm
not putting him down for that.. we all have to make a living.. but as he moved to POP his
actually playing and inovation died accordingly)
In addition, I believe Marsalis to be a racist, based on both his comments in this show and just about every other I've seen, which is a terrible thing for anyone supposedly being a proponent of jazz, one of the only fields in america where there was truly unbiased interchange between all races
at a very early stage.
But more importantly is the lack of recognition given to the many great players
of all eras. When discussing Ellington, no
one bothered to even mention Rex Stewart by
name, even tho they attributed his 'growling' solos to Ellingtons concept and not Rex's style. Last nite, not one mention of the fact that literaly dozens of top Jazz luminaries came up thru the Chick Webb band, nor a mention of Chicks' influence on big band arranging. Just some sillyness about the Goodman/Webb thing at the Savoy.
I really hope this show gets better, I had
hoped that Ken Burns would come up with something as good as his civil war effort..
but when I learned that Marsalis had a role
I knew it would be a skewed view of things.

No offense is meant to those out there that actually like Marsalis, Just my opinion, and
BTW, that of many NY jazzers as well.

Robert · Post by **Robert** » 18 Jan 2001 5:58 am

When the topic of this series comes up at work or out on the weekends, I'm noticing that the people that I expect to be watching the show are watching the show, and others claim to have seen "part of it", etc. Preaching to the choir is what I'm saying: musicians and music-lovers are watching. I don't think there are going to be a lot of converts. Then, amongst the audience, you also have the ilk that watch anything that Ken Burns does - they devour PBS (they depend on it to tell them what the finer things in life are) and in Chicago, at least, they can't wait for the Summer season at Ravinia to open so they can sip their wine, eat their brie and give Marsalis a standing ovation for walking onto the stage.
They'll buy every record mentioned on the series - but not FEEL or hear the difference between Lester Young and Yanni. Puke.

Rob

Craig Stock · Post by **Craig Stock** » 18 Jan 2001 3:09 pm

I asked a friend of mine today if he was watching the series and he said he had. This guy worked in the some of the finest joints in New york during the 40'-70's, and knew most of the Jazz Cats. He even had a Big Band of his own. This guy knows his stuff, he was one of the last people to see Dave Tough alive.
His thoughts were that it was too racial and that too many very prominent artists were overlooked, black and white. But what he really said was that Burns didn't really know his stuff. He also didn't like Marsalis a mentioned before. He quoted Wynton as saying once that "I can play one concert that will be in front of more people than my father can do in a whole year".
To be fair, my friend who is a writer and critic did some stuff with Wynton a few years ago and said he was a regular guy, and this guy has met everyone.

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Regards, Craig

Janice Brooks · Post by **Janice Brooks** » 18 Jan 2001 3:37 pm

I turned off the TV before the 2nd hour last night. I know they were to the big band era so i wonder if i missed any mention of Will's or Cooly ?

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 18 Jan 2001 9:33 pm

Last night seemed to be the Benny Goodman show with some Artie Shaw, Glenn Miller. The coolest thing I saw was Goodman with his trio and later quartet. Goodman, Terry Wilson on Piano I think, Gene Krupa on drums and Lionel something can't remember his last name on Vibraphone. Them Boys could Play.

Dayna Wills · Post by **Dayna Wills** » 18 Jan 2001 10:41 pm

I am interested to see if WS is mentioned mainly because Uncle Bob got several players from the big bands. There is a book called Swing, can't recall the author, and Bob Wills is mentioned. I didn't have time to read it as it belongs to a friend. My friend is gonna let me read it when he's thru.
Uncle Bob didn't record until the 30's so I am hoping that the 40's will include his music and that of other WS bandleaders such as Spade Cooley and Milton Brown.

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