Nashville Number System

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 6 Mar 2006 12:49 pm

Once again, the number system, whether "Nashville" or not, can be used for much more than just elementary music theory. In fact, it can be the system for mentally filing all phrases, progressions and ideas.
For instance, I play frequently with a writer who often uses 5 minor chords in his songs- a relatively unusual change. If one came up for the first time out of the blue, it might take a player a few moments to figure out "just what chord that was"- and miss it on the bandstand.
Listening to a 5 minor in context, it has a unique and identifiable "sound" within the key- and if one knows what a 5 minor is, and where to find it, the next time that "sound" comes along, we know just where to go.
I find the number system and my mental process for writing, following along to new tunes, and improvising to be inextricably entwined.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 6 Mar 2006 2:04 pm

If one came up for the first time out of the blue, it might take a player a few moments to figure out "just what chord that was"- and miss it on the bandstand.

It's really bad when that chord is "G"...

This is an absolutely excellent thread...

Wayne Franco · Post by **Wayne Franco** » 13 Mar 2006 5:20 pm

Here is where I am having the problem. In a song that is constantly changing key centers what different ways are there to note that? I'll give you an example. "Misty" in Eb. 1st chord is Eb next 2 are Bbm7,Eb9,& Ab6 (obviously a 2-57-1 in the key of Ab. Not a 5m7-1-4 in Eb. Right after that you have a 2m7-5 (a 2m-5 in the key of Gb without going to the Gb. Of course I am asking this because I want to plan my options for passing and substitution chords to these changes and I can't do that unless I know the number relationship relative to the key center. Basically I have been putting the key center above the changes so I know what key they are relating to. Sure is taking a lot of practice. Eventually I guess the goal is to just recognize the common changes right off the bat then plan my playing strategy accordingly. Any ideas from you guys on the notation techniques for this situation. [This message was edited by W Franco on 13 March 2006 at 05:25 PM.]

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 15 Mar 2006 4:04 pm

The usual way over here to indicate differing keys within the progression is to put a plus or minus sign before the change (+3, -4 ) and continue with the normal numbers albeit in the 'New' key .
"All the things you are" springs to mind as a good example of quite a few encapsulated keys !! within the song.

No mention here of "Bird's eye" ? or 'Diamond' ? rests etc. ?

------------------

Steel players do it without fretting

[This message was edited by basilh on 15 March 2006 at 08:34 PM.]

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 16 Mar 2006 4:13 pm

I wasn't aware that this thread recently had been bumped up until so informed by my friend Wayne Franco, as I wrote the initial post more than two years ago and actually had forgotten it.

Wayne, the way I write "Misty" and other such songs that change key centers is to keep the numbers in the basic key -- Eb in your case. I think most musicians can find a 2b or 1# chord or a 5b or 4# chord easier than they can switch their thinking to another key in the short time allowed while playing the song in tempo. In some situattions where the song actually changes keys (like those where the song modluates to another key) I usually write chord charts rather than number charts. If it's a song I am playing on my own set at a steel guitar show or some similar situation, I know there is not going to be a need to play it in a different key, so -- to me -- there is no justification for using a number system in the first place.

In general, I make a judgement on what will be easier for the band to follow and go with that.

Just my opinion.

------------------
Visit my Web Site at RoysFootprints.com
Browse my Photo Album and be sure to sign my Guest Book.

Bill Hamner · Post by **Bill Hamner** » 16 Mar 2006 10:14 pm

Basic music theory as taught to elementary school children long before Nashville was an incorporated city.

Ron, you can force feed theory but that doesn't
mean it gets put into use. I think the Nashville tag came about because the Nashville guys took the system and ran with it.

bh

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 17 Mar 2006 12:40 pm

The story I have heard is that some of the Nashville studio players got tired of doing up chord charts in a particular key, then having the vocalist decide to change keys -- which meant either re-writing the chord charts or transposing on the run. So they decided to activate the number chart idea, but use Arabic numbers rather than Roman numerals. As Bill said in the above post, they took the system and ran with it.

------------------
Visit my Web Site at RoysFootprints.com
Browse my Photo Album and be sure to sign my Guest Book.

[This message was edited by Roy Ayres on 17 March 2006 at 07:56 PM.]

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 18 Mar 2006 1:52 am

Roy, when I said

The usual way over here

I was referring to the practice amongst the top echelon of studio players not back-up road players.
The 'Birdseye' and 'Diamond' question is still not answered..[This message was edited by basilh on 18 March 2006 at 03:14 PM.]

Charles Turpin · Post by **Charles Turpin** » 18 Mar 2006 4:49 pm

I still think the Nashville Number system no matter what it is called. Is the best and fastest system to learn licks and and lead ins and leads. Cause it at least gives us a clue of what every one in the band is doing. ANd it does give the producers some kind of idea what they got to work with. Cause if i know where the band is going I no where the positions are on my steel I got to work with.I just wish i had more time to work with it to learn more about it.

------------------

Mark Edwards · Post by **Mark Edwards** » 19 Mar 2006 4:33 am

Roy, I greatly appreciate your explination on the number system. The guy I was taking lessons from attempted to explain it also, but seeing it in black and white, I finally get it. I guess the old saying is right, when the student is ready the teacher will appear. I printed it and have read, and read it, now it sits in my pack-a-seat in case I have any doubt. thank you again, this really has helped the new guy.

Rodney Garrison · Post by **Rodney Garrison** » 19 Mar 2006 5:56 am

This is great material. I believe ALL musicians should read this . Our drummer often looks at my chart to get his direction on a song. Thanks to all.

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 19 Mar 2006 9:30 pm

basilh,

The 'Birdseye' and 'Diamond' question is still not answered..

If i really understood the answers, I would be happy to post them -- but I don't even understand the question.

Cheers

------------------
Visit my Web Site at RoysFootprints.com
Browse my Photo Album and be sure to sign my Guest Book.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 21 Mar 2006 4:44 am

Roy, in the 'Nashville Numbers System', I'm led to believe that a 'Birds-eye' signifies a rest, whilst a 'Diamond' signifies a 'HOLD' or vice versa... that's what I'm trying to find out !!
Baz

------------------

Steel players do it without fretting

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 21 Mar 2006 5:02 am

Wayne D. Clark · Post by **Wayne D. Clark** » 22 Mar 2006 6:38 pm

Well this has been very interesting as well as educational, as well as a review. And I appreciate to chart offered, But Could it be that all of us that are old enough to remember music class in elementary school. learned some system of chord progression, whether numbers or letters,and that the basic progression was 1, 4 & 5 & 1? It seeme to me that with so many players interchanging and vocalest with varied ranges. Some one in a Nashville studio said
"Hay do you remember when we were in music class in (?) grade (Miss,Miss or Mr {?}) showed us a numbering system to simplify chord progressions"? and the response probably went like this, "Hay I remember that", and some one else said "I do to" "lets do that" and we will call it the "Nashville numberin system" "Ya, We can remember that and soon every one in Country music will understand what we mean when we say were using the "Nashville numbering system". Could it be that this may be one way it became known as the NNS. Just a thought.

I Works for me. Some times I use the letters G.C.D.G. if I am jamin with some one who only knows the chords by their letters.

MSA D10 8/2