More 1935 National cast lap steel information

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Barry Fagan
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More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Barry Fagan »

Inspired by Ralph Czitrom's thread, My 1935 National Lap Steel Adventure, and bolstered by the appropriate chapter in Mark Makin's Palm Trees Senoritas and Rocket Ships, I dusted off the 1935 National lap steel that I had hung on the wall after acquiring it sometime in the early 1980s. The response to my thread Another 1935 National Cast Lap Steel Resurfaces has been excellent, and I've been able to solve some of the mysteries surrounding the correct finish and proper wiring for the guitar.

I was also able to dig out my original file on the instrument and was delighted to discover that I have many of the answers to my questions, as well as a lot more information, from Mike Newton, who corresponded with me in 1990 and 1991. Mike is a fount of information on these instruments, and I felt it might be helpful to share this correspondence with the readers of the forum, in case anybody else is trying to restore one of these instruments. I've lost track of Mike, so I wasn't able to contact him to see if the information has changed or been updated since he wrote to me in the early 1990s. As such, consider the information to be state-of-the-art for about a decade and a half ago. I've enclosed scans of his correspondence to me (done on an old-school IBM typewriter, not a word processor) and the photocopies of period ads that he shared with me. He was really quite generous, and quite ambitious in answering my questions.

Mike and I also had several phone conversations, and I took notes on his answers to my questions. He had suggested that the finish on the instrument was silver lacquer on the sides, gold lacquer brush-painted in the wells, coming about halfway up the sidewalls of the wells. The top surface of the instrument is unpainted, but polished. The instrument was finished with clear lacquer, although buff marks on the aluminum sometimes still showed through. The word National was polished on the raised portions, sometimes not very well. The back was unpainted, although may have had some overspray. It was covered with one piece of gray-brown felt, with no provision for accessing the removable aluminum cover plate. The felt was trimmed the factory using a metal file, held nearly parallel to the back of the instrument, to file off the excess felt at the instrument's edge. This process may have damaged the paint a bit, depending on the operator.

The fretboard was not coated. The fretboard is held to the instrument with screws, located under the pearl markers at the double dot fret intervals. (This may answer Ralph Czitrom’s question from his post on the forum as to why the odd pattern for the fretboard markers. It may have simply been to secure the fingerboard at regular intervals.) Mike suggested that the dots can be broken out with a nail set, and the screws can be loosened with a drop of vinegar. The wooden bridge is maple, dyed black. Tuners and end pin were nickel plated. The tuners were apparently just held on with wood screws, threaded into the aluminum of the peghead. I have a sample of one of these that Mike sent, if anybody is that curious.

Details regarding the pickups are mentioned in Mike's correspondence. The solder connections were apparently free-floating in the body cavity.

I hope this helps. Maybe, with luck, Mike will see this, and he can update the information. If not, it's at least a good start toward the restoration of one of these instruments. I welcome your comments.

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Michael Greer
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Post by Michael Greer »

Barry

Thanks a lot for posting these documents.

Information regarding the National / Dobro cast guitars is, as you know, very hard to come by.

Can't wait you see your completed restoration

Mike
Barry Fagan
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Post by Barry Fagan »

You're welcome. I wouldn't have sat on it for so long had the Forum been available when I received it. Then, frankly, I forgot about it. The real credit goes to Mike Newton, who took the time to answer my Guitar Digest ad & share his knowledge. Maybe he'll 'resurface' also.

Do you own a National? I'm sort of collecting details & serial numbers to pass on to Mark Makin.
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Jack Hanson
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Post by Jack Hanson »

Barry Fagan wrote:I'm sort of collecting details & serial numbers to pass on to Mark Makin.
Do you have National Electric Hawaiian N573 (presumably from 1935) in your serial number collection yet?
Barry Fagan
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Barry Fagan »

Hey Jack!

I truly hope that you are the patient type, since my reply comes about 21 months after you posted. No, I don't have N573, so I will send it on to Mark Makin. I will sniff around on the Steel Guitar forum for more info, and perhaps other "newly-surfaced" cast Nationals. Thanks! I have been chasing other rabbits and it has been a loooong time since I have been on the forum.

Free free to share more info if you have any... And thank you for the heads up!

Barry Fagan
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Jack Hanson
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Jack Hanson »

Here are my photos.
National lap-7.png
National lap-6.png
National lap-5.png
National lap-4.png
National lap-3.png
National lap-2.png
National lap-1.png
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Barry Fagan
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Barry Fagan »

Hi Jack.

Thank you for the quick reply. If it work for you and I am not violating any forum rules, you are welcome to email them to me at fagan85@yahoo.com

Again, thanks for the reply.

JBF
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Jack Hanson
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Jack Hanson »

Barry Fagan wrote: 9 Mar 2025 6:18 pm Hi Jack.

Thank you for the quick reply. If it work for you and I am not violating any forum rules, you are welcome to email them to me at fagan85@yahoo.com

Again, thanks for the reply.

JBF
Photos sent.
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Brad Bechtel
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Brad Bechtel »

That's a nice looking guitar, Jack! Do you have trouble with it maintaining a tuning when it's cold or hot outside? I had one of these a long time ago. It sounded great, but I could never get it to stay in tune.

I played in a ski resort in Tahoe one weekend, a beautiful sunny weekend with a light breeze and snow all around. You could hear the guitar going out of tune as I played!
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Jack Hanson
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Jack Hanson »

Thanks, Brad. I felt fortunate to nab it on an eBay auction a couple years back, and when I received it, was astonished with its original, nearly flawless condition. The woman who put it up for bid inherited it from her father's estate, and she really didn't know what it was, or anything about it, aside from her opinion that he purchased it as a very young man when it was brand new (circa 1935-1936), and it spent most of its life in his attic. She had only the vaguest memories of him playing it when she was just a little girl.

Its tuning has not really been an issue, but admittedly I have never had to play it outdoors in either the hot or the cold, in direct sunlight, or under any extremely bright lighting. Virtually all of my playing nowadaze is indoors.

To be truthful, I'm not over the moon with the way it sounds. It's okay, but certainly not in a league with my Bakelite, or many of my rescued Postwar Gibsons. But it's a great one to ogle, no doubt!
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Eric Dahlhoff
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Eric Dahlhoff »

I have one of those, and it took me a while to bond with it. Finally, I tuned it to Dobro G and things clicked. I think it sounds great in that tonal area. If it didn't weigh over 9 lbs I might actually put strap on it :lol:
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Barry Fagan
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Barry Fagan »

Hello again! I decided that a 10-1/2 year gap between my posts was a little too long, so I put the restoration of my 1935 National Lap Steel SN162 on the front burner. Here is where I am today. I have removed the non-original cranberry red paint that was on the instrument when I got it, wet blasted and then sanded the pinholes in the casting after filling the really deep ones with aluminum-filled auto body compound, finish sanded the smooth parts with grits progressing to 2000 and painted the insets with metallic gold lacquer as seen in the photo. At this stage, I have a question for those of you who have fairly original instruments. Is the a clear lacquer finish on the "fingerboard" and binding, or has it been left unfinished? I can't quite tell from the photos on the forum and elsewhere.
IMG_5416.jpg
Mine was acquired with a finish on the board, but the body had also been resprayed.

Thank you in advance for any guidance that you can provide. Let us spray... :)

Barry Fagan
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Noah Miller
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Noah Miller »

Barry Fagan wrote: 27 Mar 2025 1:23 pmIs the a clear lacquer finish on the "fingerboard" and binding, or has it been left unfinished? I can't quite tell from the photos on the forum and elsewhere. Mine was acquired with a finish on the board, but the body had also been resprayed.
Normally, the fretboard is unfinished. It appears they lacquered the instrument before attaching the board and the felt on the back.

My pre-production prototype does have finish on the board, but it too has gone through so much that it could easily be non-original.
Chris Clem
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Chris Clem »

I own N562 . Mine has the old screw-on jack on the side and tone & vol on the top. They do not have finish on the fingerboard.
Barry Fagan
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Barry Fagan »

Jack Hanson was kind enough to respond to me via email, and he notes that his very original 'low mileage' National has no finish on the fingerboard. That was echoed by Chris Clem and Noah Miller. Thank you all!

So today I masked my fingerboard and sprayed the body with a couple of coats of clear nitrocellulose lacquer. Here it is. Next step is to load the pickup and other small parts, assuming that I haven't lost any in the intervening years.
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Noah Miller
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Noah Miller »

Chris Clem wrote: 28 Mar 2025 6:22 am I own N562 . Mine has the old screw-on jack on the side and tone & vol on the top.
That's actually very unusual - I've never seen one of these with a screw-on jack.
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Jack Hanson
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Re: More 1935 National cast lap steel information

Post by Jack Hanson »

Noah Miller wrote: 29 Mar 2025 11:39 am
Chris Clem wrote: 28 Mar 2025 6:22 am I own N562 . Mine has the old screw-on jack on the side and tone & vol on the top.
That's actually very unusual - I've never seen one of these with a screw-on jack.
Mine, less than a dozen numbers off at s/n N573 (see above) appears to have never had its factory brown felt removed from its back, suggesting originality. It sports a top-mounted phone jack.
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