Why does lap steel sound so much different than electric guitar slide?

[Dwight Shackelford]

I just tried out a Recording King SN-32 and an Epiphone Electar. Both were disappointing.

They sound reedy or whiney. Nothing like some slide guitar I've heard which use the same open tunings.

What is up?

[Greg Forsyth]

Both are inexpensive steels and the old adage you get what you pay for applies to both.

[Ian Rae]

They're different instruments. You might as well ask why a trumpet doesn't sound like a saxophone
The main difference is between a heavy bar and a bottleneck.

[Brad Bechtel]

What type of guitar are you using for electric slide guitar? If you're using a good guitar such as a Les Paul or a Strat, the sound difference could be due to better quality components. Are you comparing lap steels in the $300-400 price range with electric guitars in the $1000 price range?

[Mike Neer]

There are a lot of reasons why a lap steel might not sound as good as it should. Some of it is user error (improper technique with the bar, for example, such as applying appropriate pressure), some because of materials (bar with not enough weight, strings too light) and even set up, such as pickup being too far from strings, or maybe just a poor quality instrument, or at least a different type of pickup than the guitar.

But they are different animals in terms of the way they are played. I started on slide and then my first steel was an Electar Model M (vintage). Admittedly, I sounded like crap on steel for a long time.

[Fred Treece]

Pretty good slide player (not Derrick)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u7rkpFxql84

Pretty good lap Steeler (the actual JD)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=exfCjd8O3RM

Before I had any idea of what the heck Duane Allman was doing, I used a Stevens bar on my guitar in a lame attempt to play slide. It didn’t sound anything like Duane, but it didn’t sound anything like Rusty Young’s lap steel playing either. The bar plays some role in the tonal difference, for sure, no matter if a bottleneck or metal slide is used for playing slide guitar. But it wasn’t the secret sauce.

There are also the obvious structural differences between the two instruments. Even if a lap steel is shaped like a guitar and made of wood, it is usually a monolithic construction - the neck and body are essentially one solid piece (though possibly made from pieces glued together), like a solid body guitar with a thru-neck - but the neck of a lap steel is noticeably thicker in order to handle the heavier string gauge tension required for various tunings, and for resting the instrument comfortably on the player’s legs while playing.

Slab and console type lap steels are even more obviously different critters than regular electric guitars, and play a not-insignificant role in the sound produced.

Another difference is the height of the strings off the fretboard, and the previously mentioned string gauge and tension. This has as much to do with accommodating the use of a heavier bar for playing as it does with tone.

I believe the biggest difference in tone is the pickup. Lap and pedal steel guitar pickups have what, maybe twice the number of windings of even the hottest standard humbucking guitar pickups? This “rounds out” the tone with more mid-range depth without overdriving an amp.

So, no. You are not going to get a Duane or Derrick or Bonnie slide tone from a lap steel guitar. With a quality instrument, and GREAT technique, however, you are going to have the capability for producing passable versions of anything from a Lindley or Gilmour or Jerry Byrd or Junior Brown type sounds. Good luck there

[D Schubert]

There are so many variables that could contribute to what you're hearing. Besides all the mechanical stuff (solid bar versus tubular slide, string gage, string height off the fingerboard, etc.) there are all the electrical variables (pickups and amplification). Yes, they sound different but don't think you can boil it down to a simple answer.

[Jack Hanson]

It's easier to make a lap steel sound like a slide guitar than to make a slide guitar sound like a lap steel.

[Brooks Montgomery]

In my small 4-piece acoustic band I play my squareneck dobro sometimes on a couple songs with a glass coricidin slide (a Dunlop “Derek’s Trucks” model)
And use lots of vibrato. I hold it like a steel (finger is not inside of it). It has a nice bluesy rattley sound like bottleneck slide guitar.

[Joseph Lazo]

There are so many variables involved that it's impossible to answer your question. One thing that comes to mind immediately, though, is amp settings. I always turn down the treble on the amp (and the lap steel) to get a "warmer" sound. Also, lap steels seem to sound better right on the edge of amp breakup. If you were playing totally clean, with the treble controls up, that may be why it didn't sound good.

[Michael Kiese]

Just something I noticed with slide players: The string can often make contact with the frets because of the low action on an electric guitar. It's not necessarily a "bug" but more of a feature of slide playing. It still sounds good.

It definitely helps with the intonation of single note lines. The frets are there, so why not use 'em.

Greg Koch corroborates this phenomenon in a video somewhere on YouTube where he mentions that he presses down on the frets when playing slide. He discovered that while trying to learn some Derek Trucks stuff.

[Fred Treece]

True enough, Michael. But fretting with the bar sounds like crap when you play acoustic slide, which is how I learned. The non-fretting acoustic style transferred nicely to the Duane electric style. When playing electric now, lotsa players (self included) use fretting behind the bar technique as well as fretting with the bar, mostly because just about everybody uses an overdriven tone when playing slide and it covers up most of the noticeable clank and zing noise that destroys the sound on acoustic or clean electric. And you can mix and match the non-fretting style in with it all for variety.

[Michael Kiese]

True enough, Michael. But fretting with the bar sounds like crap when you play acoustic slide, which is how I learned. The non-fretting acoustic style transferred nicely to the Duane electric style. When playing electric now, lotsa players (self included) use fretting behind the bar technique as well as fretting with the bar, mostly because just about everybody uses an overdriven tone when playing slide and it covers up most of the noticeable clank and zing noise that destroys the sound on acoustic or clean electric. And you can mix and match the non-fretting style in with it all for variety.

Cool insight Fred! Thanks for contributing that nugget.

[Fred]

I played slide guitar exclusively for many years before switching to lap steel. I think one of the biggest differences is the lap steel is generally much cleaner than bottleneck. I don't mean distortion. There are all kinds of small noises that get incorporated into the sound of bottleneck.

The strings are usually looser so you need a more delicate touch. I often found myself using just enough pressure to get a solid tone without getting fretboard noise. But then you can dig in and pop the string against the fretboard or cause a bit of rattling against the bottleneck. A heavy brass "bottleneck" can sound much closer to a lap steel than an actual bottleneck.

Then there's the neck pickup that most lap steels lack...