A whole bunch of newbie questions

[Dwight Shackelford]

I don't play guitar yet, any style. I play fiddle and cajun accordion. I know I have the ear, from a little bit of slide I did, due to playing fiddle and singing. What has dogged me in the past on trying to learn lap steel, is the strings being too damned close together. I was researching some beginner lap steels, and found the Epiphone Electar. 2.5" neck width. Scale length is 22.5".

I will be playing primarily cajun songs, mostly in C and G, and some blues. After an initial test run yesterday at guitar center, I've decided to just learn basics on my acoustic guitar with open G.

So, questions:
1) what are some other wide neck guitars I could consider? Below $700, and preferably below $400. The SX units seem to be out of stock everywhere.
2) Why should I be concerned about scale length?
3) Why should I be concerned about the number of frets?
4) I've tried open G and open D tunings in the past, and they seem logical to me, with the major chord on the upper three strings. C6, though touted as the most versatile, seems less logical to me, with the minor chord on the upper three strings. Though a quick scan shows more instructional material for C6. Which way do I go?
5) Which brands do I stay away from. I know Rogue is bottom of the line. I tried a Recording King, and tried an Gretsch Electromatic. I liked the sound of the Gretsch over the Recording King, maybe because of the single coil vs humbucker. Single coil was clearer, particularly for intonation.
6) Regular Single coil or P90 Single Coil?
7) Where can I get wide spaced pickups from in case I wanted to build my own (Unlikely)?
8 ) What are some good instructional resources?

Dwight

[Noah Miller]

2) Scale length affects string tension, how easy it is to intonate, and the instrument's overall tone and sustain. It also affects ease of slanting, though not everyone employs slants. But all of these are fairly minor considerations; for a first steel, I wouldn't worry about the scale.

3) On a steel, the number of frets doesn't matter much. If you're going to be doing lots of soloing where the high frets matter, then you might think about it - but again, I wouldn't worry about it for your first steel.

5) Steels are quite different from guitars or fiddles in that a super-cheap one may be just as usable as a high-end one. Maybe it won't sound quite as refined, but there's no neck relief or action to worry about. The one thing I'd avoid is a bridge with adjustable intonation, such as a hardtail Strat-style bridge. Steels don't need this adjustment, so it's pointless to have.

6) P90s are single-coils.

7) 7- and 8-string humbuckers are available from many pickup manufacturers. Often they don't have separate poles so the number of strings doesn't really matter.

[Dwight Shackelford]

I know P90s are single coils, but their sound is different.

Thanks for the input on the adjustable bridge. I was thinking that was preferable.

[John Ely]

Check out this video by Troy Brenningmeyer, who is a good player and teacher. Check out his website also; I think he MIGHT have several more videos reviewing some relatively inexpensive guitars. Good luck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3IXzT_up4k
John

[Michael Kiese]

Hi,

Since you already play fiddle, at least you're not a total beginner.

That said, the violin is tuned in 5ths. The Guitar is tuned in 4ths, and the steel can vary in tuning, but pretty much its tuned in 3rds.

I highly recommend that you learn regular guitar first (standard tuning) or at least in tandem with steel. A lot of what I know on guitar, I transferred to steel and now vice-versa.

It REALLY helps a lot to be familiar with a chording rhythm instrument. So maybe Accordion knowledge will come in handy for you to learn steel.

This does not apply to you, but I do not recommend learning steel as someone's first instrument. I'm sure it can be done, but it just will be very difficult.

You have an advantage because you're already a fiddle player, so you're used to fretless instruments. Fiddle is mostly a single note lead instrument whereas the steel is a chording instrument. Getting the chords right requires a developed ear. That's why it's helpful to already play a fixed pitch chording instrument.

As for finding brands of guitars...The good news about Steel guitar is that it is such a simple instrument. 6 strings on a block of wood, metal, or plastic. All you need is a volume/tone pot that is properly matched to your pickup, and a good set of custom strings for the tuning you're learning. 90% of your tone will be taken care of just doing that. Just about anything you find will be sufficient. I recommend the SX lap steels on Rondo music, or any of the steels you can find on Amazon.

To figure out a custom set of strings for yourself, use a string tension calculator. Tons of free apps. You just input your guitar's scale length and the notes of your tuning, and out pops a tension in foot pounds. After a lot of experimentation, I found that 15 ftlbs is too little tension, and 30 ftlbs is too much tension. You'll have to figure out what you like. Just create balanced sets, and you'll be alright.
https://tension.stringjoy.com

Good luck!

[Dwight Shackelford]

Thank you Michael. The cajun accordion is a different animal than normal accordions. Yes, I can play chords, but unless I'm playing in C (it's a C box. They are exactly like harmonicas in their setup), I can only get partial chords. And I only have the notes of the C major scale. Plus the cajun accordions have "just temperament" tuning. Not like a totally chromatic instrument. I can play partial chords on the fiddle, but I'm sort of a low intermediate player, so it's pretty much drones with a fingered string, not two fingered double stops.

Regarding learning normal guitar first, I've tried, and have problems with bilateral coordination. Also can't change chords quickly enough to be of use. That's why both fiddle and slide appeal to me. Only one hand needs to be doing anything complicated, and the other hand can operate without too much brainpower going to both hands.

[Allan Revich]

You might want to keep an eye out for a used or vintage lap steel. My personal favourite to watch for is a Gibson BR9. These are still reasonably priced and are great players with P90 pickups. If you find one be sure to check that the pickup hasn’t been swapped out.

Don’t forget to check what’s for sale here on the forum too!

A good tuning to start with for the music you like would probably be open G. Either GBDGBD or the guitar version DGDGBD.

[Jack Hanson]

You might want to keep an eye out for a used or vintage lap steel.

I would wholeheartedly agree with Allan. With a budget of $400 - $700, one can easily procure a quality vintage American instrument which will only appreciate in value. As Allan noted, there are a boatload of BR-9s out there, many of which can be procured at a reasonable price point. Drop-in replacement parts are readily available, they're relatively easy to customize and mod, and they sound and play really good.

There are plentiful models of Valcos and Magnatones available (both were marketed under a plethora of different brand names). Most of which would be vastly superior the majority of the new imports, in my opinion. I would avoid purchasing a brand-new Asian cookie-cutter instrument. Often times components will need upgrading, which can push the cost up to and even over the price of a quality classic vintage American lap steel.

Another alternative in your stated price range are the Melbert lap steels, hand made in the USA.

Good luck in your quest!

[Greg Forsyth]

I agree with Allan and Jack about finding a good affordable vintage lap steel. Here's an example of a Gibson BR-9 and a matching amp for sale at a reasonable price. Although it's not in your neighborhood you might check your local Craigslist for something similar. Seems to me the older lap steels have a wider string spacing than more modern ones.

https://pueblo.craigslist.org/msg/d/pue ... 84808.html


Also, the SGF has a for sale topic where you might find a lap steel that catches your eye. Several SGF members also build and sell guitars and some advertise on the forum.