Help with Tuning

[Karen Sarkisian]

Would anyone here be able to help me with tuning my steel over zoom? I am really struggling with the steel sounding in tune with both pedals up and down on the different frets. It never seems consistent. Not sure why I am hearing the beats everywhere or if it's possible to tune them out but it's driving me crazy, I don't sound in tune to myself at all. The higher up the neck I go with my bar the more beats I get. Either my ear is getting way better or my technique is going down hill fast, I could use some help. Happy to pay someone who really plays in tune. Let me know, thanks!

[mtulbert]

Sent you contact info on your website

Mark T.

[Karen Sarkisian]

thanks Mark I sent you an email back.

[Jon Jaffe]

Karen, listen to this interview of Bruce Bouton by Russ Paul. Specifically Bruce discusses his past anxieties with tuning. And it's revealing that both Russ and Bruce admit that a steel guitar is never in tune. Weldon Myrick told Bruce to "Tune your guitar and learn how to play in tune." https://youtu.be/_fanfdENhm8?si=6pwnOBDqMyQhBBnT

Also, contact the forum member, Bob Hoffnar, about his exercises in tuning and intonation.

Thirdly, I would buy or borrow a late model Peterson tuner and pick one of the sweetened tunings.

[Corbin Pratt]

I had the same problem until I watched Travis Toy's video on tuning on his website. He breaks it down and keeps it very simple.

[Karen Sarkisian]

yeah i've tried TT method, i cant get all the harmonics, but thanks!

[Nick Krol]

Hi Karen

This chart has the offsets I use as a starting point

https://b0b.com/wp/2018/08/quick-and-ea ... ed-tuning/

Here’s the order I do it in, no bar involved:

1. A notes tuned 0 cents with AB pedals down
2. E notes to 0 cents with AB pedals down- tune to match the A
3. B notes with no pedals down - when you release the pedals the E will go slightly sharp, that’s where the +5 cents comes from in the chart. The Bs will also be +5 cents to match the E.
4. G#s with no pedals down, tuned to fit in when the Es and Bs are played.
5. C#s tuned to match the G# with just the A pedal, but should also fit in the A major chord with the AB pedals down
6. E-F raises to fit in the C# major chord - A pedal + F lever

These are the essential ones. The As Es and Bs should be rock solid after step 3.
The G#s and C#s are usually your major 3rds which tend to sound best slightly flat but there’s more wiggle room with those than with the previous notes. If things sound out those are the ones I adjust to fix it.


If things sound in tune with no bar, they should sound in tune with the bar. You describe hearing beats as you go up the neck- sadly that’s just physics at play. Less distance between frets means that small errors with your left hand that would go unnoticed at the 5th fret become egregious at the 17th fret. There’s a reason they call it Hugheyland

Best of luck!

[Bob Hoffnar]

I suggest playing a major scale on one string. If you can play that really in tune you should be able to make whatever tuning system you are using sound in tune.

I'm not sure that there is a perfect tuning system with the steel. I used to tune beats out by ear and could make it work up to my limitations. Now I tune straight up to a tuner and it works fine.

Practice playing in tune and then all the screwy pedalsteel tuning issues will mostly evaporate.

From another perspective if you are unable to play a major scale in tune on one string than no tuning system will help.

[Brett Lanier]

One place I pay a little extra attention is where the pedals down A note on the 6th string is sitting. I see that note sorta like middle C of the E9 tuning…

You can check it with harmonics against the 8th string (5th and 7th frets), but then play that interval between strings 8 and 6 (pedal down), and move it up the neck. Also check the B pedaled sixth string against the 4th string, not so much with harmonics, but in different spots on the neck.

Without those fifths in tune it all sort of falls apart.

[Raybob Bowman]

Would anyone here be able to help me with tuning my steel over zoom? I am really struggling with the steel sounding in tune with both pedals up and down on the different frets.

If the problem seems worse the higher you go on frets, It's possible you are pushing down too hard on the steel bar. Weight of the bar should be enough to get a clear sound. If you push down, strings don't all stretch at same rate so tuning won't sound same as open strings.

[Fred Treece]

Karen, listen to this interview of Bruce Bouton by Russ Paul. Specifically Bruce discusses his past anxieties with tuning. And it's revealing that both Russ and Bruce admit that a steel guitar is never in tune. Weldon Myrick told Bruce to "Tune your guitar and learn how to play in tune." https://youtu.be/_fanfdENhm8?si=6pwnOBDqMyQhBBnT

To save you some search scrolling, Bruce talks about tuning and bar intonation from about 13:30 to around 20:00 in that linked video.

[Karen Sarkisian]

Thanks for all the responses. I did listen to the Bruce bouton and I can play major scale up one string in perfect tune.. I think I am running into problems trying to tune by ear and get all the beats out. There is just too much cabinet drop to get it to where it sounds good for every chord in every position. Combine this with the fact that I am trying to fit in w songs that have a minor tonal center and are not really pedal steel friendly. One in particular goes from Am to Dm to Gm to C and then Bm to F#m to G Major to C. I’m just out of my comfort zone w Pedal steel for this song.. if anyone has any suggestions on this pls let me know. Thx

[Fred Treece]

Unless your guitar has 0 cabinet drop OR you play every song in the same key, you will indeed run into problems if you tune out all the beats.

Tuning a pedal steel is about compromising, especially with major 3rds. Try to get the octaves and 5ths as close to perfect as you can and work from there. Even they might need a tiny bit of wobble to make things work reasonably well across the board.

Minor 3rds are more forgiving than Major 3rds, as long as they are not too sharp or flat. But if your fifths and/or octaves are out, minor 3rds will sound out too.

There are 3 basic changer positions for every minor chord. Em, for example:
Fret 3: 10A-8-6-5A-4-3
Fret 8: 10-8E-6-5-4E-3-(2)
Fret 10: 7-6B-5C-4C-(1)

“E” meaning E-lower lever.

There are also 2 “no pedal” Em triads:
Fret 5: 10-9-7-5
Fret 8: 6-5-2

All the chord changes in your song can be made either at the same fret or within one or two frets, using mostly standard major chord grips.

That’s my view from the cheap seats.

[Karen Sarkisian]

thank you Fred