Benders - How I use them on an open D tuning (DADF#AD)
After building my lap steel, I installed the Certano Benders on the 2nd and 3rd strings in what I see as the standard configuration. These benders gave me DADGBD. These are equivalent to the A and B pedals on the E9 pedal steel. They are great for playing traditional country licks. I found this tuning lacking a usable minor chord. The B pedal gives a B minor chord DF#BD but the voicing isn't the greatest in the world.
I re-tuned my guitar to the hybrid D tuning GBDF#AD which has a G chord on the bottom and a B minor chord in the middle. This gives a usable minor and still has the A and B pedal changes which give GBDGBD. In spite of giving me a more usable tuning, I missed the low D and the 6 string strum-able chords.
What to do? How could I use benders on the open D tuning to give me strum-able major and minor chords. The answer was so simple that I really didn't believe it could be true. Lower the third string a half step with a bender. This gives DADFAD. That is a full strum-able minor chord. People who are familiar with benders know that most benders are raise only. The Duesenberg Multibender is one of the few benders that provide lower capability. It is also currently (May 2022) unavailable from Duesenberg. I ordered one from Thomann in Germany and was placed on back-order. I finally cancelled that order after a couple of months. I was fortunate to find a UK vendor who had a couple in stock. I installed the Multibender and lowered the 3rd string. What to do with the remaing bender? After kicking it around in my head for a couple of weeks, I decided to lower the 1st string to C. This gives a strum-able 7th chord. Major, minor and 7th are the only chords I need for most of what I play. The other chords have partial (2 note) possibilities.
I don't have the traditional A and B pedal changes on my guitar and I frankly don't miss them.
Karlis
Benders on an open D tuning
Moderator: Dave Mudgett
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Karlis Abolins
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Dave Mudgett
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If what you have is the Strat-style Duesenberg multibender, it looks like Thomann has them in stock now - https://www.thomannmusic.com/duesenberg_multibender.htm. Is that correct?
I think I agree with you on mechanical lowering vs. raising on a lap steel in a straight major tuning like D/E Vestapol (1 5 1 3 5 1) like you're using, or G/A (Vestapol shifted up one string - 5 1 5 1 3 5). I play pedal steel, and am not too worried about making my lap steel do the cliche pedal steel A+B licks. And if I did want to do that, I would probably prefer to approach it by working harder on pulling behind the bar. But there's no relatively straightforward method (notice I didn't say easy, ha!) like that to lower strings on a lap steel besides some type of mechanical bender. Just lowering the 3rd to give a minor is worth the price of admission to me. I would personally lower the lower 4th string root instead of the 1st string, but that is related to how I play slide guitar.
So, FWIW, this is closely related to the Sonny Landreth style of 'fretting behind the slide' slide guitar, which I took up in earnest several years ago. You can read interviews with Sonny where he described being able to smoothly get in and out of a minor chord as one of the initial motivations behind this move. But there are a ton more possibilities, as he has been exploiting for a long time now.
Of course, with this slide guitar move, one can, in principle, readily lower any string either one, two, or even three half-steps if you can stretch that far. Using hammer-ons and pull-offs, there are an extraordinary number of chords and melodic runs possible if you slide on the pinky, which leaves at least the index and middle fingers fully available to fret, and I think with considerable work, also the ring finger, which is significantly more awkward. And that is all in addition to just standard fretting the guitar. But of course, with some of these moves, one loses the smooth texture of pure sliding, and of course, it is much, much harder to slant the slide in the upright (Spanish) position.
Anyway - as just an example in open D Vestapol - if you lower both the string 3 F# a half tone and the string 4 root (D) a whole tone, you get a major 3rd (F) chord on strings 5, 4, 3, and 2 (and a strummable Dm7 across all 6 strings). That by itself is interesting, but I more often just slide up two frets for the 4th (G) chord (or strummable Em7 on all 6 strings). This can be used to get a somewhat modified faux pedal steel A+B move type of effect. Of course, lowering string 1 two half-tones instead of string 4 works too, but I think the voicings come out better lowering string 4. And I also think there are more and better melodic possibilities. With all the slide guitar moves available, those two behind-the-slide moves are the ones I use most.
Anyway - it looks like that Duesenberg is readily re-configured, so there are probably many avenues to explore. I think I'm gonna have to try one.
I think I agree with you on mechanical lowering vs. raising on a lap steel in a straight major tuning like D/E Vestapol (1 5 1 3 5 1) like you're using, or G/A (Vestapol shifted up one string - 5 1 5 1 3 5). I play pedal steel, and am not too worried about making my lap steel do the cliche pedal steel A+B licks. And if I did want to do that, I would probably prefer to approach it by working harder on pulling behind the bar. But there's no relatively straightforward method (notice I didn't say easy, ha!) like that to lower strings on a lap steel besides some type of mechanical bender. Just lowering the 3rd to give a minor is worth the price of admission to me. I would personally lower the lower 4th string root instead of the 1st string, but that is related to how I play slide guitar.
So, FWIW, this is closely related to the Sonny Landreth style of 'fretting behind the slide' slide guitar, which I took up in earnest several years ago. You can read interviews with Sonny where he described being able to smoothly get in and out of a minor chord as one of the initial motivations behind this move. But there are a ton more possibilities, as he has been exploiting for a long time now.
Of course, with this slide guitar move, one can, in principle, readily lower any string either one, two, or even three half-steps if you can stretch that far. Using hammer-ons and pull-offs, there are an extraordinary number of chords and melodic runs possible if you slide on the pinky, which leaves at least the index and middle fingers fully available to fret, and I think with considerable work, also the ring finger, which is significantly more awkward. And that is all in addition to just standard fretting the guitar. But of course, with some of these moves, one loses the smooth texture of pure sliding, and of course, it is much, much harder to slant the slide in the upright (Spanish) position.
Anyway - as just an example in open D Vestapol - if you lower both the string 3 F# a half tone and the string 4 root (D) a whole tone, you get a major 3rd (F) chord on strings 5, 4, 3, and 2 (and a strummable Dm7 across all 6 strings). That by itself is interesting, but I more often just slide up two frets for the 4th (G) chord (or strummable Em7 on all 6 strings). This can be used to get a somewhat modified faux pedal steel A+B move type of effect. Of course, lowering string 1 two half-tones instead of string 4 works too, but I think the voicings come out better lowering string 4. And I also think there are more and better melodic possibilities. With all the slide guitar moves available, those two behind-the-slide moves are the ones I use most.
Anyway - it looks like that Duesenberg is readily re-configured, so there are probably many avenues to explore. I think I'm gonna have to try one.
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Dave Mudgett
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Here's one of those Sonny Landreth videos I saw back when, where he explained the origins of his approach - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DUxs2aIa_g
There are a bunch more out there, but this is the one I was thinking about.
There are a bunch more out there, but this is the one I was thinking about.
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Karlis Abolins
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The Multibender on the Thomann site is the unit that I bought. I am glad to see that it is now in stock again. I guess I would have gotten it from Thomann eventually if I waited a couple more months.
When configuring the lowers which are spring returned, I found that I had to lower the gauge of my strings to balance the springs. At 28 pounds my F lower would not return to F# accurately. If you are used to heavier strings, I would not recommend the Multibender. I also found that the gap for feeding the unbent strings would not accommodate my A string. It hangs up on the end of the winding and not the ball. So far I have not broken the A string and it stays in tune but I think that this is a design or manufacturing fault.
As far as lowering the 4th string D to C versus the 1st string D, my decision came from ergonomics. I originally set it up lowering the 4th string D. I found that I used the 3rd string lower far more that the 4th string lower and the 4th string lower lever made lowering the 3rd string feel awkward. I changed the D lower to the 1st string and I find that playing minors is a lot more comfortable now.
All in all, I think that the Duesenberg Multibender is probably best suited for installing on a Tele because of the much lighter string gauges. If you install it on a lap steel, there are issues and maybe compromises to be made. Since Duesenberg installs the Multibender on their 25.5 scale lap steels, I have a feeling that there is a different model bender for lap steels that they don't sell retail.
Karlis
When configuring the lowers which are spring returned, I found that I had to lower the gauge of my strings to balance the springs. At 28 pounds my F lower would not return to F# accurately. If you are used to heavier strings, I would not recommend the Multibender. I also found that the gap for feeding the unbent strings would not accommodate my A string. It hangs up on the end of the winding and not the ball. So far I have not broken the A string and it stays in tune but I think that this is a design or manufacturing fault.
As far as lowering the 4th string D to C versus the 1st string D, my decision came from ergonomics. I originally set it up lowering the 4th string D. I found that I used the 3rd string lower far more that the 4th string lower and the 4th string lower lever made lowering the 3rd string feel awkward. I changed the D lower to the 1st string and I find that playing minors is a lot more comfortable now.
All in all, I think that the Duesenberg Multibender is probably best suited for installing on a Tele because of the much lighter string gauges. If you install it on a lap steel, there are issues and maybe compromises to be made. Since Duesenberg installs the Multibender on their 25.5 scale lap steels, I have a feeling that there is a different model bender for lap steels that they don't sell retail.
Karlis
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Dave Mudgett
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Interesting about the issue with heavier strings. My preference is generally for relatively heavy lap steel strings - usually around 30 pounds per string. But if I set up a lap steel for bending and/or pulling strings behind the bar, I guess I can get used to lighter strings. There are always compromises to be made to achieve different goals.
I can definitely see where having lowers on both strings 3 and 4 might be awkward. I guess I'll have to think about that. Maybe there is some type of workaround. And I won't know about that until I get the bender and put it on something.
I can definitely see where having lowers on both strings 3 and 4 might be awkward. I guess I'll have to think about that. Maybe there is some type of workaround. And I won't know about that until I get the bender and put it on something.
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Garrett Foster
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- Location: Illinois, USA
Novice to benders, but not lap steels or tunings: any thoughts on adding a bender to the 3rd string (middle D) to move it up a half step while tuning it down to a C#? You’d remove the lever to get a minor chord (iii from the I). I suppose you could also tune the 5th string (low A) to a B to get a deeper minor iv chord? It may also sound a tad Hawaiian. That’s where my thoughts go as someone who achieves pulls by using behind the bar finger bends on lap steels. I agree that the minor 6 with the high A pulled up a whole step is a weak voicing. You could get some ideas by nixing the lowest two strings and changing them out for higher pitches. You could get some odd variety from making the lowest 2 strings an F and a Bb. That’d give you a D-minor, Bb major, G minor (with a bend). I’m probably off base with these suggestions, but I find the endeavor intriguing.
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Cappone dAngelo
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Hi Karlis - I'm planning a lap steel with benders, and I was considering whether the 'raise the A to B' would be adequate for minor chords, given the voicing - sounds like you had the same concern! Here's what I'm contemplating:
The multibendor allows the addition of a third lever. I know some players say it gets a bit cluttered with 3, but some seem to be fine with it and I won't know until I try it. So I'm thinking that I'd try with the traditional PSG pedal 'A and B' changes, but then add a third lever with a D->C# change (i.e., like an "E lever" on PSG), which would give both a dominant 7 chord in the 'home' position (for example, AC#GA on the inner 4 strings) which will resolve the 'traditional' way (the G falls to the F# and the C# raises to D when the benders are released ...), but also gives the option of AC#F#(A) for - in this example - a first inversion F# minor chord:
D
A->B
F#->G
D->C#
A
D
Or perhaps it would make more sense on the first string so the D->C# change is on top?
D->C#
A->B
F#->G
D
A
D
If anyone has thoughts on this setup I'd love to hear them!
Thanks,
Cappone
The multibendor allows the addition of a third lever. I know some players say it gets a bit cluttered with 3, but some seem to be fine with it and I won't know until I try it. So I'm thinking that I'd try with the traditional PSG pedal 'A and B' changes, but then add a third lever with a D->C# change (i.e., like an "E lever" on PSG), which would give both a dominant 7 chord in the 'home' position (for example, AC#GA on the inner 4 strings) which will resolve the 'traditional' way (the G falls to the F# and the C# raises to D when the benders are released ...), but also gives the option of AC#F#(A) for - in this example - a first inversion F# minor chord:
D
A->B
F#->G
D->C#
A
D
Or perhaps it would make more sense on the first string so the D->C# change is on top?
D->C#
A->B
F#->G
D
A
D
If anyone has thoughts on this setup I'd love to hear them!
Thanks,
Cappone
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D Schubert
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I played with the D and D/G tunings with Certano bender for 2nd and 3rd strings. . More recently, I’ve changed that to a higher E6 tuning (B C# E G# B E) with the palm levers raising those two strings to an A chord. Embracing the country pedal steel changes, with minor intervals on the lower strings.
GFI Expo S-10PE, Sho-Bud 6139, Fender 2x8 Stringmaster, Supro consoles, Dobro. And more.
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Gary S. Lynch
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Duesenberg Multibender Bridge System
I am a Duesenberg Lap steel player and 10 year Forum Member.
I don't look at this topic area much, but it seems like there might be an interest for a Duesenberg Bender system.
I just listed a mint pair (I took off my Strat) on the Forum under Amps and accessories
(with plenty of photos, etc.)
I'd rather help out a Forum Member.
and sell them on the Forum.
I also have them on Reverb but at a higher price.
I don't look at this topic area much, but it seems like there might be an interest for a Duesenberg Bender system.
I just listed a mint pair (I took off my Strat) on the Forum under Amps and accessories
(with plenty of photos, etc.)
I'd rather help out a Forum Member.
and sell them on the Forum.
I also have them on Reverb but at a higher price.
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David Artman
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 17 Jun 2024 7:02 am
- Location: Missouri, USA
Installing Duesenberg Multibender on a Fender Player Strat
Hello,
I am new to this forum. But I saw Karlis’ post about bending down in d tuning and I’d like to try it. I just ordered the multibender and now I am wondering about how to install it. My goal is to be able to tune the high D down to C for a 7 chord. Hoping I can push it half way down to get a maj7 chord as well. Then I want to push down the F# to and F in order to get a minor chord. I am intimidated by the installation process and figuring out how to put the strings through if I am bending down. There’s also an extra spring that has to be added in order to bend it down as well. Just looking for some advice and coaching!
Thanks,
David
I am new to this forum. But I saw Karlis’ post about bending down in d tuning and I’d like to try it. I just ordered the multibender and now I am wondering about how to install it. My goal is to be able to tune the high D down to C for a 7 chord. Hoping I can push it half way down to get a maj7 chord as well. Then I want to push down the F# to and F in order to get a minor chord. I am intimidated by the installation process and figuring out how to put the strings through if I am bending down. There’s also an extra spring that has to be added in order to bend it down as well. Just looking for some advice and coaching!
Thanks,
David
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David Artman
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- Location: Missouri, USA
Redneck neck for conversion of Fender Player Strat
Also, I am purchasing a redneck neck from Lapdancer guitars to complete the transformation of the Fender Player Strat into an electric dobro in D tuning with the Duesenberg multibenders. If anyone has advice about this I’d appreciate it as well.
Thanks,
David
Thanks,
David
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Karlis Abolins
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- Location: (near) Seattle, WA, USA
Welcome to the forum, David. The multibender should be a great addition to your strat with the the redneck neck. Since you are going away from fretting to using a bar, here are a couple of tips for installing the multibender.
Start with making sure that the bridge rollers on the multibender are lined up and not staggered. This will ensure that your bar chords will be in tune all the way up the neck. The instructions that come with the bender will help you position the bender on the guitar so that the bridge rollers will be in the right place for the guitar scale. This is important because it will ensure that fret locations will be correct.
When lowering the strings instead of raising them, you will install springs to keep the bender up. There are different holes on the levers for raising and lowering strings. Again the instructions should walk you through the process.
Your standard strings should work fine for lowering. If you start experimenting with heavier strings, you may find that you need to shim the spring to get the full range of lowering.
I hope that you enjoy your "new" guitar.
Karlis
Start with making sure that the bridge rollers on the multibender are lined up and not staggered. This will ensure that your bar chords will be in tune all the way up the neck. The instructions that come with the bender will help you position the bender on the guitar so that the bridge rollers will be in the right place for the guitar scale. This is important because it will ensure that fret locations will be correct.
When lowering the strings instead of raising them, you will install springs to keep the bender up. There are different holes on the levers for raising and lowering strings. Again the instructions should walk you through the process.
Your standard strings should work fine for lowering. If you start experimenting with heavier strings, you may find that you need to shim the spring to get the full range of lowering.
I hope that you enjoy your "new" guitar.
Karlis
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David Artman
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- Location: Missouri, USA
String Gauges
Hi Karlis,
Thanks for the tips!
Here are the string gauges recommended by the String Joy company out of Nashville.
For your Fender Strat slide guitar project with the Duesenberg Benders, that sounds exciting! Considering the tunings you're aiming for, here's a set of gauges that should work well for Open D on an electric guitar:
.014 - .019p - .026w - .032 - .042 - .058
So this is what I’m planning to start out with. What do you think?
Thanks for the tips!
Here are the string gauges recommended by the String Joy company out of Nashville.
For your Fender Strat slide guitar project with the Duesenberg Benders, that sounds exciting! Considering the tunings you're aiming for, here's a set of gauges that should work well for Open D on an electric guitar:
.014 - .019p - .026w - .032 - .042 - .058
So this is what I’m planning to start out with. What do you think?
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Karlis Abolins
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David Artman
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- Location: Missouri, USA
Shim for a spring
Hi Karlis,
What exactly is a shim for the spring? I’m wondering what it is and how to make or find one. Is this something Duesenberg helps with?
Thanks,
David
What exactly is a shim for the spring? I’m wondering what it is and how to make or find one. Is this something Duesenberg helps with?
Thanks,
David
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David Artman
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- Location: Missouri, USA
Shimming a spring
Hi Karlis,
After looking around a bit it looks like just putting a washer or two underneath it to give it more power to return. I wonder if there are stronger versions of springs out there? Will start trying to set it up next week and see how it goes.
David
After looking around a bit it looks like just putting a washer or two underneath it to give it more power to return. I wonder if there are stronger versions of springs out there? Will start trying to set it up next week and see how it goes.
David-
Karlis Abolins
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- Location: (near) Seattle, WA, USA
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David Artman
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- Location: Missouri, USA
String size and return
Hi Karlis,
In your opinion which has more to do with return when bending down a full step from D to C on the first string? Is it more about string gauge or spring strength? If it has trouble returning would a lighter string gauge help or a heavier one? I’m also looking into a redneck neck addition and I’ve seen nut with rollers for electric guitars for folks who use the whammy bar a lot. My Fender Player Strat has a whammy bar. Should I remove the spring inside the guitar which makes that work before I install the multibender? I’ll start trying to figure all of this out next week when I get home from vacation. Also wondering about checking in with an electric guitar repair person at a local music shop to work with me on the installation as well.
Here is the roller nut.
https://a.co/d/0idXglX0
KAISH Stainless Steel Guitar Nut Electric Guitar Roller Nut for Strat/Stratocaster
David
In your opinion which has more to do with return when bending down a full step from D to C on the first string? Is it more about string gauge or spring strength? If it has trouble returning would a lighter string gauge help or a heavier one? I’m also looking into a redneck neck addition and I’ve seen nut with rollers for electric guitars for folks who use the whammy bar a lot. My Fender Player Strat has a whammy bar. Should I remove the spring inside the guitar which makes that work before I install the multibender? I’ll start trying to figure all of this out next week when I get home from vacation. Also wondering about checking in with an electric guitar repair person at a local music shop to work with me on the installation as well
.Here is the roller nut.
https://a.co/d/0idXglX0
KAISH Stainless Steel Guitar Nut Electric Guitar Roller Nut for Strat/Stratocaster
David
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Karlis Abolins
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- Location: (near) Seattle, WA, USA
The question about spring strength vs string gauge is one I can't answer. On my guitar, I chose the string gauge to keep balanced tension across all strings. Putting on a lighter string on the high D would decrease the string tension so I didn't experiment with that.
As far as the roller nut is concerned, it appears that the nut is designed for a fretted guitar. Would combining the nut with the redneck neck give you enough string height?
Karlis
As far as the roller nut is concerned, it appears that the nut is designed for a fretted guitar. Would combining the nut with the redneck neck give you enough string height?
Karlis