move to day pedal set up and G# to G Bto A#

[John French]

I posted several days ago about wanting to lower the g# string a half step and lower the b string a half step on pedal 4 for the G# and pedal 5 for the B. I also am changing to the Day set up so I can get the 3rd pedal to be the b. So the pedals now look like this

1 E to F# and B to C#

2 G# to A

3 Both B to C#

4 Both G# to G

5 Both B to A#


LKL Right D# to D to C#


I now can go to any open chord position and make a minor chord by using the 4 pedal and travel up and down the same strings by using the scale formula.
when I get to the 7 chord, I can make a diminished chord by depressing pedal 4 and 5 and LKL which gives me full diminished chord. I was wondering how bizarre this was, because I had not seen anyone talk about this setup. Before I left the house on my way to meet the gentleman that was changing my setup, I googled Tom Brumley because I saw on youtube this morning that he lowered the b sting a half. The search led me to this forum where his set up was listed. His set up allows him to hit the same notes as me in the exact same way, only the knee lever or pedal may be different. The only thing he did that I can't do is raise the F# to G. Not that I will ever ever come close to ever playing like he did, it was good to know that my thinking was correct. I am going to tune up the guitar tonight and see if this new configuration will be as intuitive to me as I think it will. I was wondering if anyone else uses this set up and your experience with it, especially in the pedals down position.

[John Hyland]

Interested to see the comments

[John French]

After tuning up my new set up, I have discovered several other things that I can do very easily. IF I depress pedal 4 and 5 it gives me the minor and flat 5 of what ever fret I am on. If I am on the 4th fret and I press the pedals I now have a Bb minor b5 chord. Pressing the pedals also gives me the blues scale of the cord I am on, so in this case it would be the Bb blues and minor pentatonic scale without having to think about it. I am looking forward to studying Tom Brumley to see all the ways he used this set up in his playing. It is pretty cool that you can go from the root note on the 4th string chromatically to the root on string 8 without moving the bar, in a way that makes sense to me. I realize you would never use the whole 12 note but it is good to know that what ever segment of the scale you want to use it is available without to anything other than pressing the 4 and 5 pedal. I still have my knee lever and b pedal to make the minor chord if I choose. If any of you are using this set up and have the time, I would love to hear the exciting things you do especially in playing the key from the pedal down position.

[Justin Shaw]

I have G#->G on a pedal, and B->Bb on LKV. I agree there's a ton you can do with them. I think they're some of the more popular "non-standard" changes though. You see them on copedents occasionally, just not usually in factory setups.

[Ian Worley]

G# >G and B >A# lowers are both common changes. The B lower is more typically setup where that it can be combined with the A pedal for a split C note. It's a common change on a vertical lever so it can be used in combination with A&B pedals. It's usefulness is limited when you isolate it on pedal 5, but everything on a PSG is a tradeoff, so...

[Justin Shaw]

I agree. I do wish it was more common to see teaching materials using these two changes. The flat 3 (G), flat 5 (Bb), and flat 6 (C) are all very useful notes to have easy access to. Not just for jazz, but for pop and every other type of Western music I play.

[John French]

I am such a newbie to the pedal steel. If I am on my 4th fret that is an G# or Ab chord not a Bb chord. Sorry. Now you know why I definitely need to simplify things. LOL

[Justin Shaw]

People tend to talk about changes in the open position, so no bar down. You're right that once you put the bar down somewhere we are talking about a whole different key. It would be more accurate to always use numbers instead (E = 1, B = 5, etc), but everyone knows the tuning so it's easier to discuss things in terms of the letter names of the tuning (like E, G#, B, etc).

For a standard E9 setup wherever you set your bar, the 8th string (E string) gives you the key you're in. So open is E, 5 frets up is A, etc. At that home position you have versions of all the diatonic chords without moving the bar at all. There are other positions but this is why we tend to discuss changes from knees and levers with respect to the home position.

Hopefully that all makes sense. I'd suggest Paul Franklin's E9 foundations course. It's $100 and covers the basics very well. Also it might be on sale for Black Friday soon? I'm not sure.