Race to the Bottom?

[Brooks Montgomery]

Brooks,

You can do better than that. I don't have a TV.What about the public library? Come on,man. Put your thinking cap on.

Our librarian would have a stroke if we showed up with amps and guitars

[Michael J Pfeifer]

Dude!

Put your thinking cap on. House concert. Invite the neighbors. Good luck.

[Brooks Montgomery]

Dude!

Put your thinking cap on. House concert. Invite the neighbors. Good luck.[/quote

Nah, just we just jam at the bar. Neighbors won’t shoot the bar’s windows out. They don’t want to get banned.

[Michael J Pfeifer]

Okay

[Bill McCloskey]

Maybe things are different in the jazz world. Pre covid, I often went to the Ear Inn where folks like Jon-Erik Kellso and some of new york's best jazz musician stopped by on sunday nights for an open jam. Payment is/was Philip DeHat.

Once a month I go to the jazz jam at as a place called Room 623 up in harlem. Again, open mic, payment is pass the hat for the musicians. I don't know where you would hear these musicians play jazz otherwise.

[Michael J Pfeifer]

Hi, Bill.

I have played many jazz jams here in the city and will most likely continue to pay-to-play until I find something better. You said, "I don't know where you would hear these musicians play jazz otherwise." If you're going out to hear jazz, pay-to-play and pass-the-hat don't matter. I go to a jam to play. I don't go to the Ear Inn. I contacted the sax player who leads the jam at Room 623 a long time ago. He won't let me play because there is not enough room for me and my steel. Bottom line, pay-to-play sucks.

[Phillip Hermans]

It is a shame when open mics require performers to pay or have some drink minimum.

I had great experiences at some particular open mics in New Orleans and Central Texas. They were opportunities to meet other musicians, try out new material (you got to play 2-3 songs) and get some experience on stage. The host would pass around the hat and split tips with the performers at the end of the night. Additionally, if you proved yourself, the booker would approach you and give you an opening slot on a Thursday night (paid gig)... which could lead to more experience, bigger audience and maybe eventually Fri/Sat night gig.

This happened to me in both of those areas and it was invaluable to my growth as a performer. Sadly, I have also seen many predatory models, and have not found any open mic in the Bay Area that has the same kind of return for the performer's.

Another relevant saying that I learned from working in the games industry (a highly exploitative industry if you didn't know) is: "You can work for free, but don't work for nothing."

That is, you may not be paid in dollars for what you do, but you should be getting equivalent value in some other way. I will say this does not apply to situations where someone is making a profit. If someone is making money off of the gig, you deserve a piece.

[Michael J Pfeifer]

Hi, Philip.

Atul
7 years ago
The London scene is nowhere near as bad as the New York scene. I was on holiday in New York and decided to perform at an open mic night at The Sidewalk Cafe in East Village Manhattan. I kid you not, there were probably around 70-80 musicians there on a Monday night, everyone *had* to buy food or drink from the bar as it was their unwritten rule. Most musicians got to play just one song on the night, and the night went on till about 3am. I played at 1:30am (thankfully I was on holiday and a late Monday was ok for me). To top it all off you were not allowed to ask the promoter which slot you were performing in once they were drawn out of a hat (literally!) at the start of the evening at 7pm….just in case you ‘disturb’ him by asking too many questions. And here is the icing on the cake ; the promoter passed a hat around through the night several times and the musicians tipped him for organizing the night!! Incredibly the place is so well known that New York musicians will still play there despite effectively paying to play to perform one song at a slot they don’t know when! It’s free market economics totally destroying live music. London isn’t that bad in comparison…

[Don R Brown]

Michael, I bet if you had led with that in the OP it would have generated quite a different tone on the responses. I certainly see what you are complaining about!

[Fred Treece]

That’s just plain nuts. If you don’t believe me, ask your wife, or your girlfriend. Or ask both of them.

I think you understand that this is not all on the opportunistic scum that is making money off of the situation. He has a reliable stream of willing participants.

I don’t have a solution. I can only offer the suggestion to stop doing the thing that is obviously not working for you, and never will work.

[Michael J Pfeifer]

Philip,

What you described is something performers could work with. Thanks for sharing.

[Michael J Pfeifer]

Don,

OP?

Fred,

Whenever something goes terribly wrong, usually all parties play a role in it, myself included. Here in New York, unless you're part of a clique or in a band, pay-to-play is all there is. I have solutions, but without soldiers to join me, this will continue. The Sidewalk Cafe that the Brit referenced has gone out of business.

[Frank Freniere]

Thanks for sharing. Have you considered playing in the outer boroughs or Jersey?

[Don R Brown]

Don,

OP?

OP = Original (first) Post, or can also mean Original Poster, the one who starts the thread.

[Michael J Pfeifer]

Don,
That's what I thought. Thanks

[Michael J Pfeifer]

Hi, Frank.

I play in the outer boroughs. NJ not so much anymore. Thanks.