Original MSA and the Newest MSA Guitars.

[Barry Yasika]

I've tried to do a search on this topic but nothing specific comes out of it. MSA is a name that's been around for a long time now but, there's such a difference between the older vs. the newer guitars. When did MSA amp up and start producing their new high end models? Was the company brand ever sold? Not that there's anything wrong with the older models but who or what caused the change up? I really like the new designs and all the effort that went into making it such a smooth guitar to set up and play. No idea how the company was or is ranked but for me it's a top of the line contender against most anything else I've seen, heard or played. I realize we all have preferences based on what we want, what we can afford and what's out there and I'm not knocking anything else on the market. Really, I'm just interested in the disparity between the older and newer MSA guitars and what it was that changed it all. I just don't know much about MSA history.

[Bill McCloskey]

...

[Darvin Willhoite]

There was also a book written about Maurice Anderson that pretty much covers the whole story. Some of the time line kind of jumps around a little, but there is a lot of information about MSA's different phases. It is called "Man Of Steel", "Mr. Universal". It was written by Fred Wright who I think passed away a few years ago. Someone may have a copy they will part with.

[Johnny Cox]

The New MSAs starting in production in 2002 with the Millennium carbon fiber body. The Legend came along in 2004 or 05. The last Millennium was built in 2010 for Joan Cox.

[Barry Yasika]

Darvon, thanks for mentioning the book. That’s the kind of information I was fishing to obtain. I plan on looking into that.

Thanks also to you Johnny for what you provided.

And oh my goodness, gosh, golly gee Willikers - Bill, who’da thunk that a dad gum search of the forum would be of any help to me. You’re a regular plethora of steel guitar history huh?

[Bill McCloskey]

...

[Barry Yasika]

Fot goodness sakes, goodness gassgicious, heaven have mercy,
I spouse in SMALL way I apptrieacte your effort in sending me posts I’ve already read. I suppose if there is a flipside, at least you tried. To no avail but at least you tried.

[Bill McCloskey]

Yikes. Life is too short to deal with jerks. I won't make the same mistake twice. Have a good one, Barry.

[Barry Yasika]

Nor, that’s a start.

[J D Sauser]

MSA was one of the early "modern"/post Bigsby era PSG manufacturers.

The 60's brainchild of Maurice Anderson (famous universal-tuning, Dallas TX Jazz and Country pro) Tom Morrell and Danny Shields. All pro steel players.
Bobbe Seymore another pro player based in Nashville was part of it for a certain too.
But Carter joined the team too and went into history as a builder and designer having influenced at least 3 different companies' design and production over his career: MSA, MCI/EMCI and CARTER Steel Guitars.

The company joined forces with Micro, Inc an aero-space high precession parts manufacturer and became "MSA-Micro". They produced some of the mechanically soundest, most solid and reliable guitars at a competive until MSA had to close in the mid 80's due to economic changes and strategic miscalculations. Before that, they at times sold more PSG's than all other manufacturers combined for the same time period.

In the early 2000's the brand re-surged surprising everybody with a revolutionary carbon fiber body design. From there on, again teamed up with Micro, they developed a whole line of upper level pro PSGs and non-pedal-steels and are appreciated as one the top brands today.

Can't go wrong with that brand.

... J-D.

[Barry Yasika]

Thanks JD!! I guess back when I was still a pup, the two big names in pedal steel were Sho-Bud and Emmons also I suppose Fender was among the contenders in those days (70’s). In the early eighties is when I started seeing MSA steels. Seemed like they sort of came and went as Mullen, MCI, Nashville, Sierra and several others started to populate the market. I pretty much stopped paying much attention to the MSA line but only because the brand was diminishing in the market. I’ll always remember the Super Sustain, because the name alone was enough to make me want to try one.

Anyway fast forward a few decades later and not only do I see the brand resurfacing but it’s been pretty amped up from the earlier ones I’d seen. I’ve been an Emmons man for almost all my playing years but only the Lashley LeGrande versions 1 and 2. Tried the push pull but man that thing was heavy and hard to play, atleast for me. I had the opportunity to buy a 2020 MSA and did so because of what I’d read, heard and seen of them. I was so impressed with the look, the feel and the sound of it that even though I was unsure about the cost, it was well worth it in the end. So now I’m trying to find out more about the historic properties behind the brand. I appreciate your brief but clear synopsis of what you knew about it.

I’m not sure you’ll read my response but….if ya do…. I read your little blurb about tablature. I have always had trouble making musical sense of it unless I hear it then play the tablature and the repeat both till it all makes sense. I’m more an auditory learner than anything else in all phases of learning. I don’t wanna start a debate over which way is best to learn but I found your little blurb interesting and wondered if you’d care to elaborate a little more on that. . Either way thanks JD!!!!!

[Mark Perrodin]

does anyone have any pictures that they can post of the earliest msa’s produced? i have never seen one and it’d be cool to see how they developed.
thanks,
mark

[Darvin Willhoite]

I have probably the most unique older MSA in existence, "The Plexi". This steel was built by MSA for a demo at shows, Maurice Anderson owned it until he passed, then it went to Junior Knight, then to my collection. I did some restoration on it and added three knee levers to it a couple of years ago. Maurice always said I owned the MSA Museum, and I do have several.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT8yGHl ... l=DOUBLE10

[Johnny Cox]

MSA was one of the early "modern"/post Bigsby era PSG manufacturers.

The 60's brainchild of Maurice Anderson (famous universal-tuning, Dallas TX Jazz and Country pro) Tom Morrell and Danny Shields. All pro steel players.
Bobbe Seymore another pro player based in Nashville was part of it for a certain too.
But Carter joined the team too and went into history as a builder and designer having influenced at least 3 different companies' design and production over his career: MSA, MCI/EMCI and CARTER Steel Guitars.

The company joined forces with Micro, Inc an aero-space high precession parts manufacturer and became "MSA-Micro". They produced some of the mechanically soundest, most solid and reliable guitars at a competive until MSA had to close in the mid 80's due to economic changes and strategic miscalculations. Before that, they at times sold more PSG's than all other manufacturers combined for the same time period.

In the early 2000's the brand re-surged surprising everybody with a revolutionary carbon fiber body design. From there on, again teamed up with Micro, they developed a whole line of upper level pro PSGs and non-pedal-steels and are appreciated as one the top brands today.

Can't go wrong with that brand.

... J-D.

The MSA started originally as a Morrell-Shields Custom. Maurice joined Tom and Danny and it became MSA. In 1971 MSA joined forces with Micro Space Instruments who has built all MSAs since. The S in MSA always stood for Sheilds, never Seymore. Bobbe was a very small part of MSA for a short time.

[J D Sauser]

Thanks JD!! I guess back when I was still a pup, the two big names in pedal steel were Sho-Bud and Emmons also I suppose Fender was among the contenders in those days (70’s). In the early eighties is when I started seeing MSA steels. Seemed like they sort of came and went as Mullen, MCI, Nashville, Sierra and several others started to populate the market. I pretty much stopped paying much attention to the MSA line but only because the brand was diminishing in the market. I’ll always remember the Super Sustain, because the name alone was enough to make me want to try one.

Anyway fast forward a few decades later and not only do I see the brand resurfacing but it’s been pretty amped up from the earlier ones I’d seen. I’ve been an Emmons man for almost all my playing years but only the Lashley LeGrande versions 1 and 2. Tried the push pull but man that thing was heavy and hard to play, atleast for me. I had the opportunity to buy a 2020 MSA and did so because of what I’d read, heard and seen of them. I was so impressed with the look, the feel and the sound of it that even though I was unsure about the cost, it was well worth it in the end. So now I’m trying to find out more about the historic properties behind the brand. I appreciate your brief but clear synopsis of what you knew about it.

I’m not sure you’ll read my response but….if ya do…. I read your little blurb about tablature. I have always had trouble making musical sense of it unless I hear it then play the tablature and the repeat both till it all makes sense. I’m more an auditory learner than anything else in all phases of learning. I don’t wanna start a debate over which way is best to learn but I found your little blurb interesting and wondered if you’d care to elaborate a little more on that. . Either way thanks JD!!!!!

Thanks Barry.
I consider the late "Vintage XL" the best of the older MSA's. Maurice played 2 of them to the end of his career.
Yet the newer ones are far superior in tone and even mechanics.

You will often get very defensive comments on certain brands. I've played many brands, new, vintage, or just used. And while some are rather trying to emulate some older by gone brand names' tone and looks, some with better mechanics, others have tried to expand on the general idea of the instrument.

You mention Sierra, which was from it's inception mostly leaning to "new" ideas. ShoPro and similar brands in contrast may be seen more as intended to refine ideas, looks and the tone of instruments which made their mark in the past. When done with love for quality, there is nothing wrong with that. Still today, some of the earliest steel guitars, like the Rickenbacher Frypan (the "mass"-produced electric guitar-type instrument in 1932) and the subsequent still Pre-WWII Rickenbacher B6 and B7 are considered by many the best sounding non-pedal steel guitars. Likewise, the mid 60's Emmmons PushPull and some of the ShoBud guitars still have a big fellowship for their tone and today the Emmons original is being built again with the utmost attention to detail and precession.

I have bought 2 new-generation MSA, one as a gift to a friend who did me a huge favor and an S12 for myself, as I came back to steel after an almost 20 year hiatus.
The tone is spectacular. They have the classic looks and the mechanics are worthy of a Swiss Watchmaker's creation.
I also have 2 keyless Excel Superb S12 which are evidently very different in looks yet similar in mechanical quality, yet of a very different approach. They both sound fantastic too.
I also got a brand new S12 Sierra, my most expensive PSG ever, and it's a revolutionary guitar, not just in details but in general. She sound fantastic too, very different but uniquely special. The engineering and craftsmanship is bare none too.

PRICE is evidently a decision factor too. There the earlier MSA company really broke into the market, offering guitars without much delay, while the "industry" had a history of waiting times of in some times several YEARS.
CARTER Steel Guitars later broke into the market with a similar approach, assembling guitars from 3rd party supplied parts what were highly modular, and thus able to offer a reliable quality instrument with ZERO waiting time for standard setups on standard mica guitars at a price no one could compete with. Sadly, due to the untimely death of it's founder, John Fabian, the company vanished.
I should mention all the other brands, but I can't because I haven't played them all.

But what I am trying to say is, asking for comments and recommendations is good. Yet, be careful because some will blindly try to "endorse" guitars and brands which haven't quite reached the mark.


As far as TAB or No TAB, as a Moderator of one small section of the Forum ("Builder's Forum") I try to keep conversations ON topic.
The subject has been debated often and you will find the various opinions using the "Search" function on the top right of this and any other Forum page.
This too is a subject which has attracted highly opinionated statements, some by myself.

But we've learned to somewhat better accept that we have opinions and move on and do our thing our way while others do it their way.
I've had this signature for the past 1/4 Century and only softened it, suggesting that I say it with humor about 3 years ago. Yet my opinion on it is clear.

Thanks!... J-D.

The MSA started originally as a Morrell-Shields Custom. Maurice joined Tom and Danny and it became MSA. In 1971 MSA joined forces with Micro Space Instruments who has built all MSAs since. The S in MSA always stood for Sheilds, never Seymore. Bobbe was a very small part of MSA for a short time.

Thanks for clarifying the earliest MSA days, JC.
Yes, I was aware of BS's short stand with MSA, but to some it still means something and it meant a lot to him. And since he too is gone and missed, I didn't want to go further into it as he can't respond.

... J-D.

[Bill Duncan]

What I remember most about MSA of the 1970's is ihat Reece was almost always accessible and often answered the phone himself. I bought my first MSA D10 in about 1976 or 77 and I was just beginning to play. Reece gave me good advice over the phone and was very nice and patient with me even though l was a (clueless) young picker. He even called me back a couple of times.

[Dale Rottacker]

There was a time where I never thought I'd own an MSA ... To me WAY back there were two tone camps Buddy Emmon's tone or Curley Chalker tone, and I leaned much more to Buddy than to Curley, preferring the brighter tone over the darker tone. Still, I wanted to try one for myself so in the late 80's Tom Bradshaw was kind enough to send me a Driftwood White D10 to try out, back when you didn't have to put a 2nd mortgage on your house to afford the shipping.

At the time, and still even today, I had 77 8x6 Sho~Bud Pro lll, and compared to that guitar the MSA was VERY Dark sounding, which disappointed me, though didn't surprise me from what I'd heard in the past. Although I really knew little about tone back then, (some may say, "or now") I was actually a bit saddened by it as the guitar was built to such a high standard and very smooth playing. But the sound just wasn't to my liking so I shipped it back to Tom, and MSA's were never on my radar again.

When the Millennium's came out, and the Studio Pro, (a GREAT marketing name) I thought they were the coolest looking guitars on the planet and was again intrigued. BUT, living under a rock they just weren't visible to me. UNTIL I made it to Dallas and heard Mitchel Smithy and David Wright, Joan Cox, and Johnny Cox playing them. I was BLOWN away with what my ears were hearing as well how gorgeous they were. Different from Sho~Buds and Mullen without a square edge on it, they were stunning. The guitar that Mitchel was playing was a Red/Plum and Black D10 that looked Orange under the lighting and I remember telling my buddy Scott, "I WANT that guitar", Orange was never on my radar either, but I didn't care I wanted it, and a few months later I was unpacking it and again BLOWN away at how immaculate this guitar was.

I always say that "This is NOT your Fathers MSA" ... these "New Gen" MSA's to me are the best playing, smoothest sounding guitars I've had the pleasure to own. So I went from Never an MSA to FIRMLY in the MSA Family. Are there still other brands I'd like to own, ABSOLUTELY ... We are fortunate to have so many great builders today, but to me MSA's are special and truly "Raised the Bar"

[Roger Rettig]

I haven't really experienced the latest MSAs, the exception being the time that I was doing my Summer gig in Medora when the US Navy's band, Current Country, came to the venue and performed.

They were all stellar musicians and I, of course, chatted with their steel player. They'd given him a new MSA D10 and I had a chance to see the craftmanship in that fine instrument. I have a fleeting impression of a fast and decisive action - something I've always wanted and never quite had - with positive stops on everything.

So, when it came to ordering a D13th 12-string, MSA was at the top of my list. They were quoting 24 months, though, and I'm not getting any younger!! (As it happened, I still waited 15 months for the Williams.) The Willy is great, but I still have a yearning for one of these up-to-the-minute steel guitars.

Although I can't work any more, I wouldn't be able to resist those 'L' fretboards!! (even if it was only in my practice room. )

[J D Sauser]

The previous gen. MSA were often suggested to be “darker” and some went so far to theorize that they were better suited for Jazz or Swing.
Yes, they were no Emmons PP BoltOn or WrapAround… just like other brands, they had their own color of sound. But I think that some of the stigma was derived in part from the fact that Maurice Andreson waa mostly known fir his Jazz and HardBop work, and much of it was recorded with his Bb6th which was even “heavier” than C6th.

Here’s an interesting example of Curly Chalker playing E9th solos on a mica “Classic” MSA in what seems to be the late 70’s. There seems to be no lack of sustain… the first solo he barely ever re-picks the strings on a long multi-change slide up almost an octave right into Hughey-Land:

https://youtu.be/b75msHFynvU

Here is Maurice playing in later years on his briwn-beige Bb6th Vintage-XL, not seeming to have any tone issues:

https://youtu.be/-XEa2WlCDVc

I must admit, that these late-gen. Vintage XL are the ones I would most love to own one.

I used once an older lacquer MSA SD10 as the base for a prototype concept.
One should want to remind that MSA’s were among the first PAGs which were EASY to work on, change parts around and revamp setups.
Since I didn’t want to build a complete PSG to try some ideas, we used it to put a completely different changer and tuning mechanism on it.
It sounded amazing.
Maurice, Tom Brumley and John Hughey actually tried the prototype in my room at the 2000 Dallas Show.

When the carbon fiber Millenium surprised us all, there were those who suggested it sounded “firigid”, lack the tone from real wood and other concerns. I played one at Maurice’s home once (apple candy red S12 I BELIEVE was a Bb6th-“Universal”), and I couldn’t seem to find that it lacked anything tone wise. She was most of all extremely light and a joy to play.
It was a different time. Most of our heroes were still alife and many of them playing. Many oder afficionados around sticking to “traditional” and such wisedoms like “if it and broke, don’t fix it”.

Evidently, the new MSA’s, although they retain some of the classic MSA looks (like the cuanger block, the large posts holding the changer shaft, and evidently the logo), but have a tone I would be surprised tha anybody would want to critisize.
I love mine, and besides sounding amazing, she’s drop dead gorgeous.

… JD.

[Jerry Horch]

Chalker’s just awesome …

[Darvin Willhoite]

Here's a "The Universal" that was one of Maurice's personal guitars built in 1984 (I think). According to Maurice, this guitar was used on the "Universal Direction" album as well as the "Dallas" TV show and lot's of live shows. I bought it from him a couple of years before he passed and sadly didn't get it restored until after he passed.






Here he is playing it at ISGC.

[David Wright]

This is a 1964 that was Maurices, and was the guitar he recorded 5 set records ...Rebuilt by Darvin...





Here's the history of MSA. as told by Maurice
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... sc&start=0

[Barry Yasika]

I have probably the most unique older MSA in existence, "The Plexi".



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT8yGHl ... l=DOUBLE10

Talk about an unusual guitar!! Wow that's really something to see. I've heard there are other plexiglass steels out there but until this picture I've only ever seen one. It was a Fender 400 that someone either removed the original body from and replaced it, or just built with clear plexiglass. IT was sitting in Tootsie's Orchard Lounge kind up some stairs up in a room way in the back. I was told the room it was in was were a lot of the performers would hang out and get and forth to the Ryman out the back door and through a walkway over the alley between the two building. The story teller mentioned it was the room Hand Williams was fired from the Opry...but honestly I have no idea if any of the story was true. The Fender was just sitting there, looked as though it hadn't been played in some time. The strings were all really loose and some were missing if memory serves. At any rate it caught my attention in more of a curious way. I wondered what it was doing there in the middle of the floor kind of abandoned looking. This was back in the late 80's, maybe in early 90's. I'm not even sure the Ryman was being used at the time. The room looked kind of dank and unused as well.

Anyway to stay on topic thanks for posting your picture of your MSA "Plexi". It would be so interesting to hear it live in person straight into one of the standard steel amps, like one of the Peavey models, Evans or Fender Steel amps with no effects expect maybe some reverb. Better yet if it was used in even a small band with a seasoned player (like Darvin) behind it. To me the wood necks have a warmer sound on both the low and high end than those with aluminum necks, just my own personal feeling. No idea to expect from that guitar in a live setting but like I said would love to hear. Sounds pretty good in the video from what I was able to hear. But for me the real cut through sound comes with the bass and drums underneath the top sound. That always changes everything, even just when I play the six string guitar. I really like different and individualistic things and this is definitely "Collection" and one of a kind worthy though Love it!!

[Darvin Willhoite]

Barry, this would definitely be a cool guitar to play on a gig, especially with a string of LED lights shining up through it, BUT, the old wood and mica Classics were heavy, but this one is probably 10-12 lbs heavier. The pickups are single coils, are microphonic and are wound to 14.1K on E9, and 15.7K on the C6th so they're both pretty bright. They are glued in place and I didn't want to disturb them, knowing this was only gonna be a show guitar and wasn't gonna be played much. The magnet wire on the pickups has blue enamel coating, and it's cool being able to see the coils through the top cover. I'm not sure what year Danny Shields passed away, but these pickups may have been wound by him. According to Maurice, this guitar cost around $6000 to build in 1971, back when you could buy a new Classic D10 for about $1700.

[Donny Hinson]

does anyone have any pictures that they can post of the earliest msa’s produced? i have never seen one and it’d be cool to see how they developed.
thanks,
mark

Mark, for the first 10 years of production, the earliest MSA guitars bore little resemblance (mechanically) to the more modern ones that were made after 1971, when Micro Machining got involved. From 1962 to 1971, their pro guitars did not sell very well, although their entry-level guitars did a lot better. The pro guitars were heavy, and frankly, the market was very fickle. Back in those days, if you didn't play a known name (like Sho~Bud, Emmons, or ZB), most people in the know wouldn't take you seriously. (It was like the early days of electric guitar, when Fender, Gretsch, and Gibson were about all you saw the pros play.) Those early MSA's went through many changes, but they were different and heavy, and not as precise as the "Micro" ones made from '72-'84. Here are some pics of the early pro models: