Bright twangy MSA tone...

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 25 Sep 2023 1:12 pm

Not what most steel guys are used to from the MSA Classic [or Semi Classic] guitars, but its in there for a lot of them with the right pickups and amp settings.. This tone was never a problem with most of my MSA guitars once I ditched the SS humbuckers.. Lightly wound [NOT 20 K!!] single coil pickups and a Fender tube amp was the key for me.. This guy is not a world class player, pretty basic, and too much delay, but I like his feel, and love his tone.. This is how old MSA guitars should and certainly can sound.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X92JjsArJCE

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 25 Sep 2023 3:47 pm

Can't see the pickup clearly enough to determine what it is but it certainly doesn't look like the plastic cover on the SS. A beautiful bright clear tone.

I wonder what putting a coil split in an SS would sound like.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 25 Sep 2023 7:30 pm

After watching the steel break on computer at full screen, Many times. The white writing on top of the pickup, Looks like it starts with a capital G, It may be a George L pickup.
I had a MSA D10 Formica cabinet Classic steel, Some one had put George L E-66 pickups on it. It had a lot better brighter tone than my S10 Formica Classic cabinet with original MSA Super Sustain pickup.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 25 Sep 2023 7:32 pm

I never liked the SS pickups, I had a '75 Classic with single coils and it sounded really good in my opinion.
(Please excuse the playing, but the guitar sounds good.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW7o6GH ... l=DOUBLE10

Larry Dering · Post by **Larry Dering** » 26 Sep 2023 10:48 am

Darvin, that sounds good. What equipment was you using at the time?

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 26 Sep 2023 12:43 pm

Rich Peterson wrote:Can't see the pickup clearly enough to determine what it is but it certainly doesn't look like the plastic cover on the SS. A beautiful bright clear tone.

I wonder what putting a coil split in an SS would sound like.

I did that decades ago, when the SS pickups first came out.. I bought a brand new white S10 MSA Classic with factory 5+4... Great guitar mechanically but I did not like the sound I was getting... In those days, there were not many independent pickup rewind guys, but there was a great NJ luthier [Tom something or other] that did that sort of thing... I told him I wanted the SS in its original case, but with the ability to isolate either coil,or go full humbucking on a 3way switch.. he said it wasn't a problem, so I took the pickup to him, and he rewound it, and I reinstalled it with an 3 way switch the game me full humbucker in the middle, and either front or back coil on either end of the switch.. It absolutely transformed that guitar, and from that day, I never used heavily wound pickups again.. My current Marlen S10 is the same using a BL 705- Humbucker/single/single... Never understood why more guys don't do this.. its 3 very distinct sounds at the flip of a switch.. These days everyone wants big massive ""tone", thick with endless Hammond like sustain... Yeah thats great and all, but some of us LIKE that bright whiny tone... bob

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 26 Sep 2023 6:21 pm

listening Curly playing always puts a smile on my face

terrible MSA tone

https://youtu.be/CcKx4Srqo5I?si=AoQmBgepnluBecyu

another example of terrible MSA tone

https://youtu.be/pLn_PC740fU?si=7Q7-fBCguoMBpYIr

absolutely unacceptably bad MSA tone

https://youtu.be/HR5SkLhwuEY?si=mGwDKkZCENvi_liz

hmmm … maybe it’s not a guitar where bad tone is coming from after all … who knows

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 26 Sep 2023 7:06 pm

Hey Larry, I'm not sure what amp setup I was using at the time I recorded this, I had several amps and effects. I have a Line 6 POD on a stand beside my steel, but I don't think I was using that on this song. I think I was using this pedalboard I put together and either went into a Session 500, or an LTD400 amp. I used the RV3 for reverb and delay.

Larry Dering · Post by **Larry Dering** » 26 Sep 2023 7:11 pm

Thanks Darvin, it was a while ago. I have an old MSA classic D10 that I struggled to get a decent tone that didn't have ice pick highs. I left it unplanned the last few years and played more on my SD10s. I was considering a different pickup. I should get back to it this fall and fix that issue.

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 27 Sep 2023 2:15 pm

I had an Classic S12 with an Alumitone pickup that had a coil tap type switch. That guitar sounded great. I wish I had kept it.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 27 Sep 2023 7:00 pm

I have Alumitones with a coil tap switch on my Zum and Mullen guitars. Both guitars sound great and I can get a beefy tone, or a bright tone, whichever mood I'm in.

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 27 Sep 2023 7:07 pm

Damir Besic wrote:listening Curly playing always puts a smile on my face

terrible MSA tone

https://youtu.be/CcKx4Srqo5I?si=AoQmBgepnluBecyu

another example of terrible MSA tone

https://youtu.be/pLn_PC740fU?si=7Q7-fBCguoMBpYIr

absolutely unacceptably bad MSA tone

https://youtu.be/HR5SkLhwuEY?si=mGwDKkZCENvi_liz

hmmm … maybe it’s not a guitar where bad tone is coming from after all … who knows

That was just Curly's sound. I played all of his MSAs at one time or another. They all sounded great.

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 27 Sep 2023 7:20 pm

Look a little closer Damir -

Curly's playing a Sho~Bud through what appears to be a Twin on the first video!

I don't know what guitar he used on his Big Hit's album, but it sounds just like the one in the video.

I agree with Johnny Cox - I think he wanted to sound kinda muddy.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Sep 2023 1:44 pm

Everything I’ve heard about the “Big Hits On Big Steel” album said that Curly played a Fender 2000 (10 pedals, no levers) when he did the album. Of course, Curly would have to have done a lot of two-footing, but he was was a master of that kind of stuff. As to his tone, he preferred the muted jazz sound, and he just didn’t want to sound like everyone else. He must have succeeded because he sounded like nobody else and he played like nobody else.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 29 Sep 2023 8:04 am

As much as I loved Curly's playing, he was one of the best that ever lived as we know, I never cared for his tone that much,, Too muted for my taste, but of course thats subjective.. The reason I posted the MSA guitar as recorded on this gospel track, it was because it was not typically what we "expect" most MSA guitars to sound like.. As much as I liked MSA guitars, I never like the pickups they came with either single coil OR the later SS Humbuckers.. Those guitars wake right up with a good single coil..
Our friend David Higginbotham sold me a Classic S10 wood body with an Emmons sc pickup that sounded magnificent.. Over the years I also used Sho bud and georgeL pickups that worked well.. I always loved the georgeL 10-5 pickup as you could go from twangy SC to full or tapped humbucker and they were a wonderful pickup for MSA guitars.. Several years ago, I bought a Bud with a 10-1 in it, and yes, it sounded decent, but a lot of the Bud character was lost, at least to my ears.. So I know that a LOT of great steel players disagree totally, and maintain that all of the tone is in the body and mechanism on a pedal steel, but I for one can never be convinced of that... Seen too many guitars transformed by a simple pickup change.. thats all most of the MSA Classics ever really needed to get the right tone for country...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Sep 2023 7:17 pm

I never had a problem getting “twang” from any pedal steel. After all, it’s a solid-body guitar with only a bridge pickup.

Getting good bass is a different story. (For that, you need a decent amp.)

One of my recurring (exasperating) experiences is hearing a pedal steeler say “I can’t get any highs from this thing.” Then I look at the treble control, and it’s on 2 or 3.

Nowadays, I just sigh and walk away. $:\$

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 2 Oct 2023 11:28 am

Kenny Davis wrote:Look a little closer Damir -

Curly's playing a Sho~Bud through what appears to be a Twin on the first video!

I don't know what guitar he used on his Big Hit's album, but it sounds just like the one in the video.

I agree with Johnny Cox - I think he wanted to sound kinda muddy.

Curly played a Fender 2000 through two Fender Bassman 4x10 amps on Big Hits. The Sho-Bud was not built in time for the session but was on the album cover.