Direction advise at this point (my first post)

[Chris Harwood]

Hello... new member, fairly long time lurker.
Briefly (hopefully)...I've had an Oahu Diana tuned to E for my rock and roll days.I bought it in the mid 70's along with a 6 string Ric..which is long gone. After the "band days" ended(early 90's), I set the steels down and it went back to the closet.
Recently I bought a Supro Comet...but much more exciting to me...I purchased a "stripped out" National Grand Console. Both of these new to me this last winter. The National had the original pickups and bridges removed and was converted to a double 6 with a pair of guitar humbuckers in place. Tuners long gone, so basically I bought the wood and the neck graphics...but it was very inexpensive.
So...I totally took it apart (I have pics if there is interest...the 3 long bolts, etc) and since there is no "vintage value" to this particular steel..and it already had been pillfered...I decided to do what I wanted to do..
New paint job, some Klusons (not all matched for now, but useable), two new bridges, a pair of some "no name" Stringmaster style pickups, and totally new wiring, complete with a stratocastor input jack plate. The tone "switch" was also swapped for a tone pot and a new 500k Alpha pot for the volume as well.

What has happened, is the 8 string has totally pulled me away from the 6 string steels for now and the lure of the common C6 tuning has me absorbed for now. The 2nd neck I went with an E7..so I could still relate to my guitar experience and my old 6 string E tuning on the Oahu.
My question is...(I'm fairly handy, have a nice studio and comfortable with a soldering iron, so I feel my National refurb is ok)... The National sounds great thru my Line6 Helix...but nothing like the pure sound of a 10 string pedal steel guitar. I realize the sound difference between a lap and pedal steel too....but...
Do I need to experiment with some better pickups, like the Lollars or just buy another National with the old monster pickups? Or just stick with what I"ve got and let my playing skills improve my tone (and technique).
I'm looking for something that would fit in with a modern day "Marty Stuart" or a "Vince Gill" kinda sound. I guess you call it a modern sound with more traditional, but current country arrangements?? IDK.

Here's a recent link... no playing anything fancy, but trying to FIT IN with this recording, since it lacked a steel...but you can hear the sound I'm getting.
https://youtu.be/N5r1oaUR3M8

Below is the National as it is nowadays too.

Thanks in advance for thoughts on a course to take at this point. I've played guitar for 60 years (yeah..I'm 70 now)...but my steel skills are still beginner.
Again... what would be your next step, if in my shoes...(and YES...I used a guitar pick in the video.. slap me now!)

[John Harmon]

I too have one of these, about the same shape but do have the original pick ups. Planning on doing something similar if I can get some get up and go back. Don't like this old age thing, lol. Pics for me would be great. John

[Chris Harwood]

Here's kinda a photo dump, in no particular order... I can give more specifics if needed. I ran a ground wire under the aluminum plate the pickup is mounted on...the wire running to a bridge screw, so all is grounded. I had to grind the outside edges of the pickup bobbin bottom as well, so they'd fit horizontally...I ground off the little ears where the screws would normally go to screw the pickups down. I then just attached the pickups with sturdy, two sided tape for now. They won't move.

[Chris Harwood]

Here's what it was, when I bought it... The old bridges/tailpieces and humbuckers went into the "junk" drawer...
It was nice that it already had the leg sockets...so I just got some 3/8" thread and epoxied it into pieces of 1 inch stainless tubing and put "crutch tips" on the bottom ends. The legs are not adjustable, but I can sit on it now! Oh...I opened up the tuning slots on the pegheads too..so it won't collect dust and you can actually reach into them now. If the peghead breaks...I'll do what it needs, to fix it. It's kinda crude overall...painted with a rattle can...but I have about $400 in it at this point...and will be a great learner.

[Chris Harwood]

I too have one of these, about the same shape but do have the original pick ups. Planning on doing something similar if I can get some get up and go back. Don't like this old age thing, lol. Pics for me would be great. John

How does yours sound? Do you have anything to compare it to? I mean...I have a general idea, but some perspective of the pickups...compared to a single Stringmaster style, is what I;m trying to figure out. I tried a pair of Stringmasters...but didn't seem to really do much and just the single one I have nearest the neck seems fine. With all the shielding and grounding I put in, the hum is minimal and certainly drowned out when you're playing...so having a pair out of phase isnt a big deal at this point. Not to mention, I've been playing Strats and Teles all my life and lived with non humbuckers.

I'm finding that listening to just simple, (but nicely played) pedal steel sounds SO MUCH better, than what I'm getting. But I can't expect tone nirvana at this point too. I wonder if that is possible with a lap steel...?

[Bill Sinclair]

Nice revival of that old National. Those totem fretboards are my very favorite. Enjoyed the video too. I liked the way you blended the footage. Where'd you get the bridges? Or did you fab them yourself?

edit: think I just found it: Certano bridges. Can you tell if they are chrome plated brass or steel or polished aluminum?

[Chris Harwood]

Yes...Certano roller bridges. Material, I honestly don't know. They felt too heavy for aluminum and seem coated completely, so I couldn't tell what the material is. Pretty high gloss, even for aluminum...and how would you get such a high gloss in the countersunk, screw holes? Getting above my pay grade to answer that. I have some of the palm benders too...and I'm pretty sure they are aluminum....so thinking about it, they probably are aluminum. But I can't say for sure, sorry. The rollers however seem to be bronze/brass. Just going by color, of course.
I suppose the rollers aren't really even needed as well...kinda like the intonation screws that were on the previous guitar style bridge. But I put them on, because that's all I could find for 8 strings at a decent price and thought palm benders might be in the future as well. But with the 8 strings, I see that happening less than I originally thought. They were half my budget! Great person to deal with too.

EDIT: found on the web:
My Benders are precision machined from aluminum, hand polished and assembled by me. The levers are laser cut stainless steel and carefully polished. The rings are made of bronze and guarantee millions of smooth actions without special maintenance or lubrication.


I would suspect the same materials for the bridge...except I think I saw "brass" for the rollers...vs bronze.

[John Harmon]

Very nicely done. Can't tell about the sound as the volume pot is completely gone in mine. Doesn't have legs so I wonder if a cheap Rogue may lose it's legs at some point for it. Really need to get busy on it.

[Tim Whitlock]

Very nice phrasing and tone Chris! You certainly know how to backup a singer and the song. I wouldn't change another thing on your guitar. Seems like making the jump to pedals would be the natural next step towards the sound you seem to be after. Adding fingerpicks so you can incorporate more fingers and chords might be something to consider. Wherever you decide to go, enjoy your journey!

[Chris Harwood]

Thanks Tim. Kind words to read this morning. I do have some Sammy Shelor picks I use on my Deering banjo and of course a pile of Nationals and assorted. But I gravitate to a flat pick and hone brew hybrid picking. Having my palm facing downwards feels awkward right now.

I may play with pickups at some point, but I think the tone I'm chasing is in the technique.

Thanks again.